On House Relocations...

Can SE add some limits to this? Like once per week or something.

I can't help but feel that some people are intentionally trolling us by relocating as often as they can to reset the lockout timers.

I'm of the opinion they should be on the same rng timer so everyone has to wait, but if you notice someone constantly relocating to reset the timers, report them for griefing.

They should just have disabled relocating for a bit, FCs and private people had enough time.
No reason to be rude and relocate inf ront of waiting people just to make them wait even longer.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

They should just have disabled relocating for a bit, FCs and private people had enough time.
No reason to be rude and relocate inf ront of waiting people just to make them wait even longer.

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100% this.
Wow, I can't believe people would relocate in front of others who have been waiting all this time or especially relocating to make them think a plot was available only to find out it isn't. Rude.

I'm guessing OP didn't get their plot they wanted.

Maybe buy a goblet small and relocate later to a plot ud actually want.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

I'm guessing OP didn't get their plot they wanted.

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I'm guessing you didn't spend hours standing in front of a placard spamming it either.

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Originally Posted by Pastahnak

Maybe buy a goblet small and relocate later to a plot ud actually want.

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That's precisely...the cause of the problem.

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Originally Posted by tymora

I'm guessing you didn't spend hours standing in front of a placard spamming it either.

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Nah of course they didn't they're not stubbornly playing on a sardine can of a server.

It's hard to not notice that all of the posts still complaining about housing are from Balmung or Ragnarok.

Oh look, another "i must complain" topic.

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

It's hard to not notice that all of the posts still complaining about housing are from Balmung or Ragnarok.

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They can always transfer to another server if not happy with current situation. Last few days a lot of people reporting from many servers how huge amount of houses are still available to purchase.

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Originally Posted by Madbunny

Oh look, another "i must complain" topic.

They can always transfer to another server if not happy with current situation. Last few days a lot of people reporting from many servers how huge amount of houses are still available to purchase.

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Agree 100%

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

Nah of course they didn't they're not stubbornly playing on a sardine can of a server.

It's hard to not notice that all of the posts still complaining about housing are from Balmung or Ragnarok.

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I am from here since beta of 2.0.
FC is here, friends are here. Housing is annoying but not a big enough push factor to warrant a migration.

I have a house and even i say its stupid.

Yeah, just leave your friends behind and your fc and everything just because you are on the most populated server.
Thats not even a bad thing, its just that the ward distribution doesn't really add up.

We're paying for the game and aren't allowed to complain about not having enough? Wouldn't you try to give your most populated server more while waaay less populated server don't get that much for now?
As long as it enough?
Its not really special treatment, empty server don't need all those houses, do they? People have reasons to stay on Balmung, like mentioned above, its just weird to just move away if it means not being able to play with your friends other than world parties...

Theres even people that relocate on purpose just to screw with the few people waiitng for the last few plots. Thats just messed up.


Complaining about something that shouldn't be such a problem in a game we pay monthly for is warranted, is it not?


Just sounds to me like "heh, i have a house on this server(or even balmung) and you don't? Well, just transfer away, who CARES about all your friends and everything? Idling around? Nah, just use party finder, right? Its the same right? Stop complaining, i have a house and there's houses on other server, so you're not allowed to say something against it" and thats rude. Just because you have something or theres plots open doesn't make the abuse thats going on any better.

And more people will start playing. And there will always be people without houses. In a pay to play game.

Think about it

I mean, a proper solution would be to add wards based on server population. Yes, Balmung and other massive servers would likely need 40 wards per area, but it's pretty clear that most players who had server jumped have.

The issue with the relocation was that it took a great chance for many people.
Some brought a plot to just instantly relocate it somewhere else. For example my first experience that someone relocated and instantly relocated to the next plot, so they just snagged one away and the other got put on timer.
Relocating is fine and all but in my opinion they should also hope to hit the right random timer and not have a free-to-go and just relocate. That would be already helpful enough for next time! Then they just can't snag away one from waiting people.

(also I second the increasing ward for popular servers, even more now with all people going to Balmung again)

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Originally Posted by tymora

FC is here, friends are here. Housing is annoying but not a big enough push factor to warrant a migration.

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Well if you can "live" with that i really dont see any reason why you should transfer. I was speaking about people who complain as for them the house is game-breaking thing.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

I mean, a proper solution would be to add wards based on server population.

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I'm guessing you don't code, because that would likely require a complete rewrite of the core infrastructure of housing. It's not a case of "the devs should just do this" because the likelihood is that they already know that.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

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Ok lets break it down:
1. You are paying the access to the game, but the game and everything under SE logo is their (including your char.) and you dont have any right to claim anything.
2. Only guarantee is same treatment as anyone else and nothing else, because of SE ToS and "force majeure".
3. You can complain but hardly something will be done. In next ward expansion i suspect there will be quite few servers with empty wards - so move with all your friends and FC.
4. If you want something for your server then SE must implement same thing for every other server. Otherwise there is tons of request/complains just waiting around the corner.
5. On Cerberus in first 2-3 hours you could literally move entire FC and get big house for the FC and medium/small for anyone else and still watch half empty wards.
6. You decided to stick with your current server what is clearly overpopulated... then its your choice to make it difficult to have a house.

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Originally Posted by Madbunny

Ok lets break it down:
1. You are paying the access to the game, but the game and everything under SE logo is their (including your char.) and you dont have any right to claim anything.
2. Only guarantee is same treatment as anyone else and nothing else, because of SE ToS and "force majeure".
3. You can complain but hardly something will be done. In next ward expansion i suspect there will be quite few servers with empty wards - so move with all your friends and FC.
4. If you want something for your server then SE must implement same thing for every other server. Otherwise there is tons of request/complains just waiting around the corner.
5. On Cerberus in first 2-3 hours you could literally move entire FC and get big house for the FC and medium/small for anyone else and still watch half empty wards.
6. You decided to stick with your current server what is clearly overpopulated... then its your choice to make it difficult to have a house.

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Oh, sorry for picking the 'wrong' server. Let's all do the drastic thing of moving. Some only waited eight years or so for housing. Let's just throw away eight years of networking, getting along with people, history in a server and memories because I can't get a house. Please listen to yourself instead of lording it over others..

Yup, lots of Balmung and Ragnorok tears...Move to another server if it is that important, if not just give it a rest.

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Originally Posted by Flashgordon1975

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Warning: Potential sarcasm ahead!
You must be insane to ask people to do something and change things for better. Nope, instead i will throw accusations left and right to anyone who is asking me to actually do something by myself. Oh, almost forgot - i'm entitled to whatever i want.

It would be an incredibly bad idea to give larger servers more based on their larger population. That would only further encourage people to move to these overpopulated servers, since they would not need to make the tough decision to go to a less populated server that had these luxury items available. SE wants to even out the populations and keep them even, not make the problem worse than it was in the past.

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Originally Posted by Madbunny

5. On Cerberus in first 2-3 hours you could literally move entire FC and get big house for the FC and medium/small for anyone else and still watch half empty wards.

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Assuming you're talking about the events of last Tuesday, the only literal thing here is the bullshit you're trying to spread. There were no large plots available on Cerberus when the moratorium was lifted. There were somewhere between 20 and 30 medium plots in Goblet, and those were gone within first 15 minutes at best, not 2 or 3 hours. The remaining plots were small, and while there were still a substantial number of them available hours after maintenance the claim of "half empty wards" is also an exaggeration.

Not sure why people are attacking each other for wanting more houses on Ragnarok and Balmung. I think they should add more wards, I think with the addition of another six wards or so that will give those servers the housing they wanted (They might need more) and it will assure that all other servers anyone that wants a house can have one. I am sure they will add more wards, but the people that are bashing on those they are without should calm down. Server transfers are not the solution for most people, and belittling their plight is abhorrent. I have had a house for about a year and a half now and I have not once wanted to treat another player badly because I have something they don't. It astounds me how often that happens on these housing forums.

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Originally Posted by MeridaQ

Not sure why people are attacking each other for wanting more houses on Ragnarok and Balmung. I think they should add more wards, I think with the addition of another six wards or so that will give those servers the housing they wanted (They might need more) and it will assure that all other servers anyone that wants a house can have one. I am sure they will add more wards, but the people that are bashing on those they are without should calm down. Server transfers are not the solution for most people, and belittling their plight is abhorrent. I have had a house for about a year and a half now and I have not once wanted to treat another player badly because I have something they don't. It astounds me how often that happens on these housing forums.

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Yup, what they need is an automated expanding system, so when all wards and houses are done another ward and x houses become available. That way all the flippers and ghost fc's can buy as much as they want but it won't do them any good, as there will be no one to sell to since another ward and houses will become available even if they buy everything up again. but SE needs to put rules in place to get that sort of system going, or maybe instances something. The bottom line is that people want a house in the location they see fit and server they are on, not having to move to a different server or take leftovers in the goblet looking at a wall.

But supply and demand is the problem while combating all the other risks is impossible.

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Originally Posted by Searban

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I was talking when the ward expansion came because as a guild you didnt have any moratorium. Once the restriction was lifted there was left huge amount of free plots. And why large? You want to tell me that someone who doesnt have any house he/she would be unhappy with any size, even the small one?

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Originally Posted by Madbunny

I was talking when the ward expansion came because as a guild you didnt have any moratorium. Once the restriction was lifted there was left huge amount of free plots. And why large? You want to tell me that someone who doesnt have any house he/she would be unhappy with any size, even the small one?

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So in a thread where discussion revolves around post-moratorium housing market (that includes things the person you were directly replying to posted about) you chose to back your arguments up with an example that is in hardly relevant to the issues related to personal housing right now? I see.

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Originally Posted by Faeon

Yup, what they need is an automated expanding system, so when all wards and houses are done another ward and x houses become available. That way all the flippers and ghost fc's can buy as much as they want but it won't do them any good, as there will be no one to sell to since another ward and houses will become available even if they buy everything up again. but SE needs to put rules in place to get that sort of system going, or maybe instances something. The bottom line is that people want a house in the location they see fit and server they are on, not having to move to a different server or take leftovers in the goblet looking at a wall.

But supply and demand is the problem while combating all the other risks is impossible.

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While I agree that more wards need to be added, the issue with dynamic wards is:

1. SE has stated multiple times their hardware cannot handle such a feature, because the wards are constantly active in memory, and creating more and more each time one fills up is too much strain server-side
2. Coding: FFXIV is notorious for existing upon old Legacy code, which in and of itself is going to hinder what the devs can actually code into the game. They are working on removing the old code, but that takes a lot of time to do.

Then there is also the issue of when the next new Ward comes out, a lot of players effectively abandoning the dynamic wards they spawned and moving to the next new housing district. Dynamic wards would work well if there was only 1 housing district, but there are 4 of them. And while a lot of people are content with older districts, if Shirogane is any example of how, say, Ishgard Housing would be if implemented, people move en masse to the new district. So much so that it actually causes server strain with everyone trying to load into one area at once—the biggest issue with 4.1 was that so many people were trying to load into Kugane at once, that those who weren’t “fast enough” or “lucky enough” 90k’d, if they even managed to get past the lobby server, which also crashed for a bunch of players because of the sheer number of individuals trying to connect.

The salt in here is real tasty.

Seriously, SE has offered you multiple times FREE transfer and you could take your friends with you and get a house. But go ahead and keep complain over housing on a overpopulated server and see no changes.

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Originally Posted by tymora

I'm guessing you didn't spend hours standing in front of a placard spamming it either.

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Nope, i used relocation. And you could too just go buy whatever plot and relocated to the one you camped for hours.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

The salt in here is real tasty.

Seriously, SE has offered you multiple times FREE transfer and you could take your friends with you and get a house. But go ahead and keep complain over housing on a overpopulated server and see no changes.

Nope, i used relocation. And you could too just go buy whatever plot and relocated to the one you camped for hours.

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You must have wonderful friends that only play with you and you must be a wonderful friend to them that you only play with them. In fact, it must be gratifying to know that their in game lives only resolve around you such that they must go with you if you so decide to move.

I am not so lucky. You see, my friends have friends of their own. And a good number of them have other FCs and houses of their own. Who am I to dictate if they should move with me? Even if our daily interactions in game are little more than a greeting and a bye, I have done so for over a decade. That's right, since FFXI. A virtual house is a small issue compared to a virtual familiar face, so yeah, I am stuck here on this overpopulated server for eternity.

And while I am here, I shall maintain my right to complain about housing in the hopes SE will take heart and improve/alleviate it again.
Go ahead and sit here and complain about me complaining. Isn't it obvious who is more productive here?

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Just for the record, when the last house in Goblet was gone...I didn't go "noooooooooo". I went "it's finally over, now I can go do something else".

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

1. SE has stated multiple times their hardware cannot handle such a feature, because the wards are constantly active in memory, and creating more and more each time one fills up is too much strain server-side

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What bothers me about this is that when the apartments were first announced, they were supposed to dynamically add more apartments as they filled, to be added at a later date once they saw how apartments worked. That feature mysteriously disappeared without a word.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

What bothers me about this is that when the apartments were first announced, they were supposed to dynamically add more apartments as they filled, to be added at a later date once they saw how apartments worked. That feature mysteriously disappeared without a word.

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I thought Yoshida said it would be a simple thing for them to add more per apt building (up to like 500 or something) but they were starting with 90 each and would see if they needed more. I don't remember it ever being said that they would be dynamic with added more as they filled (though since FC rooms can do this, it is curious that apartments don't). Since I think only 2 or 3 servers had max capacity apts, they probably decided it wasn't needed since it was only 2 or 3 servers. With the new wards, there were 4320 more apartments added. If they just follow through with the promise of making apartments upgradable to something reasonable in size (preferably up to at least a medium house type size) then I think most of the housing crisis should be solved, minus the lack of being able to garden.

Maybe that's what he meant, I'm fuzzy on the details of it after this much time. But they still haven't even done that lol. Either way, they need to focus on apartments if they want any hope of solving this. Then just add planter boxes for apartment gardening. Ta-da. (Also, add an FC chest to apartment lobbies...pls)

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

We're paying for the game and aren't allowed to complain about not having enough? Wouldn't you try to give your most populated server more while waaay less populated server don't get that much for now?

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Hmm, their world/population balancing incentives would seem to suggest that no, they'd rather eliminate the "empty/overpopulated" problem altogether.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

I'm guessing OP didn't get their plot they wanted.

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Yes...

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Originally Posted by tymora

I can't help but feel that some people are intentionally trolling us by relocating as often as they can to reset the lockout timers.

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And about relocating, why would anyone relocate just to reset the timer, not only would it cost a lot of Gil but you also give up a plot, no matter what, doing so is going to leave another plot available.

What is more likely going on is, other players go buy a plot they don't want else where, and relocate to the plot they do want, i have done this myself while others just sat at the placard complaining while i walked up and bought it instantly :)

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Originally Posted by Elamys

What bothers me about this is that when the apartments were first announced, they were supposed to dynamically add more apartments as they filled, to be added at a later date once they saw how apartments worked. That feature mysteriously disappeared without a word.

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The difference is, apartments are completely instanced and only load when someone is occupying them. The wards are loaded and rendered constantly, regardless if anyone is actually occupying them. Dynamic wards would be completely different from dynamic apartments.

That being said, I think the devs thought apartments would be another band-aid fix to the Housing system, and then didn’t expect people to basically rage (and rightfully so) at the fact that they were just more expensive FC rooms with none of the perks of being in an FC. I think they should definitely expand apartments sometime in the near future and attempt to make them competitive against ward housing.

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Originally Posted by tymora

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I'm sorry but i can't help but giggle to your "story". Sounds like you not really friends with people if all your interactions is a emote or a small hi.

Even if you had multible friends who did not wish to transfer they will introduce cross world LS and FC soon enough hence no need to stay on a overpopulated server. Imho

Also since you value housing so low, why even bother complain about it? You don't seem to care about it.
If it was so important you would done something.

I'm going to get roasted for this analogy, but I don't really care. I'm not writing it because I think, miraculously, someone is going to read it and go, "oh my god! You're so right!" I'm writing it to explain why most non-Balmung players don't care about Balmung.

There is a chain of grocery stores in a city. There is absolutely nothing that differentiates these stores. However, there is one particular store on the second floor of a highrise downtown that is far and away the most popular - not because of the store, but because that's the popular place. Some people go because they like the crowds. Some because they like to say that they go to the popular one. Some because their friends shop there too, and they like to see their friends. However, the safe occupancy number on this store routinely gets overlooked, and there's often many more people in this store than there should be.

This store also sells amazing bread. Like, people will kill for this bread. It's kept limited, though, and every store gets the same allotment every day to sell. At the One Store, it always sells out within seconds. Everywhere else, it usually sells out, but sometimes there are leftovers. But they don't send extras to the One Store.

Why? Because the One Store shouldn't have that many people in it. Every time the occupancy exceeds by 50, 100, 200, there's a chance that the floors will actually give way and also end up wrecking the other stores in the highrise. They don't want to encourage any more people to go there. Especially when there are plenty other stores within the same distance.

Nobody feels sorry for the people who can't get bread, because they decided that shopping at this store was more important than getting bread. But as much as you want to say "this is dumb, physical limitations don't apply to digital," you're wrong. Your "but nothing's going wrong so clearly it's fine" means that the people who are watching the servers and desperately reallocating resources so that you don't crash the datacentre are doing their jobs. I work for an online homework assessment company - at peak times we have hundreds of thousands of individuals accessing our servers at any one time, and I've seen the dev slack channels. They sometimes have to take some pretty crazy steps to keep the servers running at high loads. Just because you don't see it stutter (or you see the stutter but not the crash) doesn't mean it's not in danger, it means they've put on enough Band-Aids.

Does it suck that they have these limitations? Yep, but they exist and you can't just demand that they change it, especially when only 1-2 servers, picked arbitrarily, suffer. Do I blame you guys for having picked friends over bread? Nah - but I don't want to hear "but I should get bread *too*". You picked a server that exceeds its finite resource, so my sympathies are zilch. (Should they be finite? That's SE's decision. And when it comes to the implementation vs space issue, it makes sense why they are. Was it the best choice? No, but they didn't ask me.) And the fact that most of you don't care if you crash the other servers in your datacentre puts a sour taste in my mouth.

Oh, and the safe load occupancy? Yeah, it can be enforced. People can be kicked out. Servers can be forcefully split. It wouldn't surprise me if they actually do that some day.

Yeah, I know there are differences between my analogy and the real situation, but for the most part I think it describes how a lot of us view your complaints. Like I said, I don't expect anybody to change their mind over this... but I do hope you understand that most of us don't care.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Yeah, I know there are differences between my analogy and the real situation

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Not really, you nailed the situation pretty good. Actually the same thing "we" (i and many others) were pointing out as we saw wards on our servers sitting half empty for days. All this boils down to the same thing - "i dont want to change anything to get what i want so everyone/anything else must change to adapt to my wishes".
Btw good analogy but sadly i dont think any of "those" people will understand or change for the simple fact they repeatedly refuse to accept the logic behind their situation (problem).

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

I'm writing it to explain why most non-Balmung players don't care about Balmung.

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You hit the nail on the head, analogy is 100% spot-on. Best explanation I've seen on why Balmung does not deserve special treatment.