PVP bots

Square enix please stop people from doing pvp botting in frontlines, way to many players , even high level mentors doing it now making the game not enjoyable anymore :(

I would remove that post, you can't name and shame. SE considers people innocent until proven (by them) guilty. So shaming someone like that may be considered harassment.

Every time I would queue alone I knew my team was gonna probably be mostly bots.

Given how little anything here seems to get attention, I say leave it.

I mean, what's the bigger crime here? The guy openly botting on his own stream, or the person calling it out on the forums? Sure, two wrongs don't make a right, but I'm pretty sick of forced silence while waiting for SE to do something about it.

Still waiting, BTW.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Given how little anything here seems to get attention, I say leave it.

I mean, what's the bigger crime here? The guy openly botting on his own stream, or the person calling it out on the forums? Sure, two wrongs don't make a right, but I'm pretty sick of forced silence while waiting for SE to do something about it.

Still waiting, BTW.

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Agreed.

It's pretty sad that I have to keep a list of known botters. SE doesn't do anything about them, so the only thing we can do is know who they are and give them the boot when we see them.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Given how little anything here seems to get attention, I say leave it.

I mean, what's the bigger crime here? The guy openly botting on his own stream, or the person calling it out on the forums? Sure, two wrongs don't make a right, but I'm pretty sick of forced silence while waiting for SE to do something about it.

Still waiting, BTW.

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I know the feeling, but it's just going to get that guy banned from the forum for trying. He would likely do more good by just reporting any evidence he sees, though sadly SE doesn't accept screenshots or videos as valid evidence although imo, reports containing images or vids should be handled on a case by case basis especially for situations where players are openly displaying themselves botting.

I mean, if SE really *TRY* to get solid evidence, they can just contact the streaming website for VOD archive, Eg: Twitch.tv or youtube

No names shown because we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abp3jlvNvls

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Originally Posted by Kisama

No names shown because we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abp3jlvNvls

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https://youtu.be/Abp3jlvNvls?t=85

Almost perfect on covering the names but youtube on 0.25 speed failed you

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Originally Posted by Mofafafa

https://youtu.be/Abp3jlvNvls?t=85

Almost perfect on covering the names but youtube on 0.25 speed failed you

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..Or was that intentional? Who knows?

I will take any punishment

I tried a lot of things. At first I began making a list of bots based on behaviors, and within one weekend I had over 120 in the list. I can't report all those and keep my sanity.

So I tried reporting one bot on a daily basis. Once a day for a month, the guy was in there every day pretty much. Never got actioned.

They don't care about bots, at this point I'd freely say just bot all you want. You won't get banned. SE will just discard the tickets if anyone does bother to report you.

Worse still, they'll likely just delete this thread, because apparently exposing a cheater is a worse offense than the one who's cheating, yes?

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Worse still, they'll likely just delete this thread, because apparently exposing a cheater is a worse offense than the one who's cheating, yes?

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THIS IS A SAFE PLACE.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

THIS IS A SAFE PLACE.

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I.e. it will be locked?

It's what you do with safes.

There is a player on Leviathan that I reported several times for botting in Frontlines when Garo was first released (it was obvious & undeniable botting). They regularly get high in the Feast & PVP rankings. Recently I watched them botting & using hacks on the Ananta Beast Tribe quests when they were released. These people are literally teleporting to Velodyna Bridge & then out to the quest markers & back afterwards. Surely that's about as obvious as it gets & requires very little investigation by SE.

they should just call this EXP AFK MODE. THIS ISNT PVP

I just sat through a fifty minute queue for Frontlines at what is supposedly prime-time on Aether. It seemed like a significant number of players were bots...

>_>

If they won't stop bots in gathering and FATE grinding, they won't stop this.

That only compounds they question: WHY aren't they stopping it?


You know, with all the other games I've been playing lately, some for free, I am beginning to question why I should bother paying to play this when SE hasn't shown much of anything as far as doing something about this issue. It became a significant problem at the start of Stormblood, and HALF A YEAR LATER, nothing has still been done about it. Saw a bot/botter I reported and also put up a video about on my channel months ago in a match yesterday. That's unacceptable, even more so remembering that I was never contacted, nor has anything clearly been done about it.

So, honestly at this point, post your videos. Share them all you like. Share them here, share them to gaming media sites, share them everywhere. I mean, people openly violate the TOS for half a year and get away with it. Why should anyone be punished for exposing it? Punishing someone for "name shaming" a cheater, openly cheating on stream or caught on video, and NOT the actual cheater would be quite a nasty double standard. Is that okay? Like, SE, is that what you would expect people to pay for?

SE this is really that point where you need to ask yourself whether your "screenshots and videos as evidence" bit is actually helping you fix this or not. Because it isn't. And if you're actually trying to improve and attract people to PvP in this game or build an e-sports scene, this is one of your bigger problems to address first. And it would be wise to address it before it fully kills all interest in it, and starts costing you subscriptions.

This doesn't make sense, though. The exp on loss is pitiful; like 400-500k. The queues no longer pop within 5 minutes, more like 15-30. There are no real rewards from frontlines you can't get in a week of easy play. So why on earth are people botting it? there's no reason.

If having bots in frontline means I don't have to wait 30+ mins outside of peak time for a match, I don't really see the issue, everyone wins something so, eh.

I like how with all of SE's tech they are not seeing evidence of botting yet these super sleuths are able to catch them just by watching them play. You guys should work for the NSA this world would be a safer place.

Because "it's just PvP" and "this isn't a PvP game". So why should they care who they impact with their cheating? Why should anyone care? SE apparently doesn't.

Oh but don't you dare call someone a name or hurt their feelings. That's a ban. And a reason to restrict chat. Oh, but have some "improvements" you didn't need and didn't ask for in this game mode that was fine as it was! Please continue to give them feedback to ignore!

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Originally Posted by RuneFox

If having bots in frontline means I don't have to wait 30+ mins outside of peak time for a match, I don't really see the issue, everyone wins something so, eh.

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No, everyone does NOT win. Botters who just want to CHEAT AND VIOLATE THE TOS TO GET XP are the only ones who win. If you actually like PvP, you get stuck with unresponsive teammates who are more of a liability to you than anything. And you can't do squat to expose them because screenshots and video could be edited, thus it's all suspect. Report them? Go ahead. You'll be seeing them again for months to come. Beat them in the match? Fine, they're not there to win anyways so long as they get XP.

Long queue times were fixed overnight in 3.5 with Frontline Freelancer. 30+ became "Less than 5m" during peak times, 15 minutes at the worst. And real people who actually knew what to do and WANTED to PvP were the ones playing then. Those same people however don't enjoy matches full of bots just standing there or mindlessly zerging other players or objectives like expendable FATE NPCs. Those people get tired of dealing with crap like that and stop queueing, which only compounds the problem.

We want to PvP to play against other players. People exploiting the system and using bots to openly cheat for XP with no concern for others and no penalty for violating TOS heavily impact that and only drive real players away, which can potentially compound the problem of long queues and bots in place of real players.

Nobody cares -- until it affects YOU and a mode YOU like to play.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

Nobody cares -- until it affects YOU and a mode YOU like to play.

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Guess it won't be a problem to actually deal with until bots start buying housing plots. . .

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Guess it won't be a problem to actually deal with until bots start buying housing plots. . .

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Im pretty sure they can buy housing plots. lol Hell they can even create FC's what stopping them from buying plots?

Hell in this community exploiting a cutscene skip is bigger problem than botters. LUL

God forbid bots start skipping cutscenes. Consider all hope lost then.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Long queue times were fixed overnight in 3.5 with Frontline Freelancer. 30+ became "Less than 5m" during peak times, 15 minutes at the worst.

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I wish that were still true, I never get in a match in 15 mins or less unless it's during peak time these days(I que almost exclusively for PvP). I also don't really see bots in my matches or people standing around(unless they are doing so for a "Surprise" attack). I just see a lot of casual people who do not know what they are doing running all over the place and little explanation or leadership for those who need it. Perhaps my blase attitude comes from not seeing what you are supposedly seeing or having a different opinion of what these so called "bots" are doing.

Stick around. It becomes pretty easy to tell a new/casual player from a bot.

Even a new guy panics when attacked at the ice. Bots rarely, if at all bother to react to being attacked. Casuals are inconsistent with coordinating attacks, and while veteran players can take you down in seconds, they can't do it with the sheer speed or typical zerg behavior bots do. I can also say I've seen bots completely ignore someone standing right next to me and attack me or others. To make sure of it (as seen here) I got their attention, then ran straight to the same player from before, and they didn't touch him.

As for explanation and leadership, normally I'd be sympathetic to the plight, but after writing two guides, making videos, giving field commands, and STILL seeing some of the same people make the same costly mistakes, I'm a bit hard pressed to remain so patient, especially when half of them don't even care so long as they get XP.

The point though is that people cheat based on it benefitting them. Frontlines bots happened because you had very quick pops and could get a lot of exp in a short time afk. That doesn't exist any more; 400k per half-hour isn't good exp by any means (its barely 2 fates), and by now people have leveled the jobs they want to play up to cap. So I'm finding it hard to believe there is this mass bot invasion in a frontlines that can barely pop 8 mans. You can get better exp just running POTD over, and in the same time even as DPS I can get a dungeon pop for 3x the exp or more.

Then tell me why this NIN (and several of the others in this video) is still around?

(They were on DRG when I saw them yesterday)

Besides, if getting reported does nothing, screenshots and video and even your own stream footage are invalid due to possible editing, and SE otherwise seems completely unwilling to actually do something, why would any of them stop?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

The point though is that people cheat based on it benefitting them. Frontlines bots happened because you had very quick pops and could get a lot of exp in a short time afk. That doesn't exist any more; 400k per half-hour isn't good exp by any means (its barely 2 fates), and by now people have leveled the jobs they want to play up to cap. So I'm finding it hard to believe there is this mass bot invasion in a frontlines that can barely pop 8 mans. You can get better exp just running POTD over, and in the same time even as DPS I can get a dungeon pop for 3x the exp or more.

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Bc its still gives you wolfs mark which you can turn in to gear and exchange them for gc seals.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Then tell me why this NIN (and several of the others in this video) is still around?

(They were on DRG when I saw them yesterday)

Besides, if getting reported does nothing, screenshots and video and even your own stream footage are invalid due to possible editing, and SE otherwise seems completely unwilling to actually do something, why would any of them stop?

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8/10 times when someone reports a "Bot" off someone fitting a "certain" play style, they are never banned simply because they are not bots. Then the person rages that the company is not taking action against bots because they "feel" they know more simply off visual evidence Vs that company's actual, factual data. I know it's easy to say, "I have 20+ years of playing games, being a programmer, being a Dev, etc" but that still does not trump the fact that the company has the actual metrics and data to prove different.

I get that you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but it's time to be realistic about this. People openly bot on a stream and that's invalid as evidence because it could be - could be - edited? Come on. Did you watch the video I linked? Aside from standing there doing nothing while ice was up, once I had the other team's bots on me, I literally ran to and behind the NIN, and they remained untouched until I was "out of range". How about Kisama's video where they're all standing there unmoving until ice spawns "in range"?

SE's been shooting themselves in the foot with their policies on visual evidence since day 1. That's exactly what allowed some of the most notorious wintraders in the Feast to go so unchecked they got bold enough to stop being subtle about it, and even make a mocking video about it. Or the other guy that literally showed HOW to do it, and brazenly posted in a topic about wintraders, all but bragging about how SE can't do anything about it, and largely thanks to their own rules on the matter.

But tell me, if they can ban a guy live on stream for things he said, why then is it so difficult, apparently, to catch a player botting, especially when the behavior is so obvious AND frequent? This isn't an argument of "different playstyle"; this is straight up people cheating and violating the TOS, and doing it openly. AND NOTHING BEING DONE ABOUT IT. Stormblood is half a year old now. Look around for all the topics about botting or cheating in general. Try to find any post or correspondence from SE that they've actually done something about it. I can wait.

P.S. Don't play the "metrics and data" card. According to Yoshi P, their "data" shows that more people began to participate in the Feast when they implemented the chat restriction. . . at the same time they overhauled PvP reward structure and launched the Garo event. Their metrics and data are pretty damn skewed; and for anyone within SE to attempt to pat themselves on the back and call PvP as it is now any kind of success should really be alarming.

It's just getting worse and worse. Honourable, honest players seem to be screwed over at every turn these days.

We recently saw a prominent, famous raiding FC brag on Twitter about exploiting the housing system. They insulted anyone who raised an eyebrow or criticised them...whilst being paid a significant amount in the form of real cash and bonus perks to promote the game on things like Twitch.

PvP is gradually dying as a result of various factors, including win traders and bots.

I have to wonder if it's an issue with funding. Perhaps Square Enix need to invest more money in hiring people to address reports? The game did, after all, grow far beyond what it expected to be after it relaunched as ARR. Do we know if the support team grew over time?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Do we know if the support team grew over time?

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Most probably not, most of the funding went towards the funding FF15 and other SE games. (if i'm not wrong, that yoshida said they have shortage of crew to handle the overwhelming of production)
This however, iirc, yoshida said that for the stormblood expansion, they receive a much more budget compared to the heavensward expansion budget.

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Originally Posted by Akor

Bc its still gives you wolfs mark which you can turn in to gear and exchange them for gc seals.

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You can get them faster through poetics and creation, since only the lvl 60 gear can be turned in. I thought about desynth too, but if you are good enough to get it high, you know there are better things than pvp to use it on.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Then tell me why this NIN] (and several of the others in this video) is still around?

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Are they still botting? My guess is that botting went down quite a bit once they nerfed exp gain and queues died.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

PvP is gradually dying as a result of various factors, including win traders and bots.

I have to wonder if it's an issue with funding. Perhaps Square Enix need to invest more money in hiring people to address reports? The game did, after all, grow far beyond what it expected to be after it relaunched as ARR. Do we know if the support team grew over time?

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Win trading happened because the population of light party feast, and I'm guessing to an extent hi ranked normal feast, is too small to prevent it from occurring. Maybe its because of a tiny sub-population, that of healers, since healers are the easiest ones to throw a match with. Punishment is probably because they can't ban people specifically from Feast, and you can imagine the griefing potential if you could be banned based on pvp actions. Best thing would be for them to allow people to be banned from ranked mode.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

You can get them faster through poetics and creation, since only the lvl 60 gear can be turned in.

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Botting isn't exactly about getting things "fast". It's about getting things while you're doing something else. And for that, the gains are still pretty good.

You have to think:"What else could I bot in that time?", rather than:"What else could I do in that time?". I'd imagine a lot of bots from PvP end up going gathering once they finished leveling.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

. So why on earth are people botting it? there's no reason.

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Bots started showing up about a year ago, before exp was even a reward. Back then it was for wolf marks or Relic progress.

Some people bot so they can sell the account. These are the people with the obviously-randomized character appearances.

There's a number of behaviors you can pick out that you can 100% tell they're bots. Almost all of them are clearly running the same application(I obviously won't link the site here) and it's very, VERY easy to tell botted characters once you pick up the ways to distinguish them. Problem is, I can give these quirks to SE and report the same bots as much as I want, nothing ever happens. It's a waste of time. I've given up at this point and just pretty much accepted that nothing will ever be done about it. People blatantly do it on their main active service accounts with top end raiding gear/titles because there's zero risk.