WAR's: Want SE to bring back Foresight, Fracture, Bloodbath, and Mercy Stroke ?

Warriors,

How would you feel if SE brought back these skills in the future (maybe next expansion) but tweaked them to be new and improved versions of the old versions? Some of you may not even know what these are or what they did. These skills reminds me of the time before 2.0 where WAR was the lol tank. While they were not the best skills, when they took them away it felt like a kick in the gut. I truly miss them.

And OH I almost forgot, brutal swing! Why did they take this out again ?....

Foresight: Why? Rampart is better
Fracture: This even existed?
Mercy Stroke: Not a big loss
Bloodbath:
https://i.imgur.com/eH2HQTH.gif

Bloodbath would make WAR's high self healing even higher yeah. Or allow WAR's to just go Deliverance Cleave/Decimate ham. >_>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

WAR's: Want SE to bring back Foresight, Fracture, Bloodbath, and Mercy Stroke ?

---

https://media.giphy.com/media/jQmVFypWInKCc/giphy.gif

I'm a Dark Knight (and Warrior) and I want Foresight, does that count?

It would help DRK's kit so much.

*looks around*

...where's the line in the sand?

They gave us such powerful healing on steel cyclone due to bloodbath being taken out. We got a good deal overall. And the reduced number of buttons made way for IR, Onslaught, Upheaval, SiO. I think if we got anything back, they'd be taking something away to balance it, so I'd rather stick with where we are now. Brutal swing was taken out because we got low blow as a role action. They removed most of the damage-dealing stun attacks from all jobs so we're no longer incidentally stunning things as part of a dps rotation; now only using CC when it's part of a deliberate strategy.

No. Most of these was not a big loss so meh.
Bloodbath, while a loss for sure, was removed for a very good reason and for SE to give it back at this point would be a really bad idea balance wise.
Na, WAR got the rework and is now in a great spot. What SE have to focus on now is 1: figuring out what they really want DRK to be and 2: make it into that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Foresight: Why? Rampart is better
Fracture: This even existed?
Mercy Stroke: Not a big loss
Bloodbath:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

No. Most of these was not a big loss so meh.
Bloodbath, while a loss for sure, was removed for a very good reason and for SE to give it back at this point would be a really bad idea balance wise.
Na, WAR got the rework and is now in a great spot. What SE have to focus on now is 1: figuring out what they really want DRK to be and 2: make it into that.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Warriors,

...... in the future (maybe next expansion) but tweaked them to be new and improved versions of the old versions?

---

Do people read? I'm suggesting they bring it in the future with new and improved versions of themselves, hopefully in the next big expansion in which PLD/DRK would get new skills as well. I'm not asking them to come back now, as they were. It would be Nostalgic. How can we predict it will be unbalanced without knowing what PLD/DRK would get and how SE will balance the classes even futher before the next expansion?

No, no, and no.

Foresight was always trash. Even if they brought it back in a similar form, its just a boring "push button, take less damage" just like most CDs in the game. Whooptie do. Theres no fun there.

Fracture: I don't get peoples obsession with dots. Bring back scourge! Bring back fracture! They are relics. 1 button, non-combo, no interaction dots. I really don't get the obsession with these things. The most interesting thing you could do with fracture was play it on Mnk as a gap filler to shift your rotation to get better use out of your buffs/dot tics.

Bloodbath: Similar. War has epic levels of self healing. You want bloodbath? Have you tried 8x steel cyclone? 8x BB? Equalibrium? All things that didn't exist in 2.0 when bloodbath was the primary healing source. It has already been given back to us. It was only epic for dungeon trash pulls which we can now decimate (hehehe). Single target it was OK, but not ground breaking.

These skills were bad, boring, outdated or all 3. Let the dead rest.

If you bring them back 'in a different form' then you aren't bringing them back. You are just making a new skill and giving it an old name. A new super awesome, fun, interesting skill? Of course I'd take whatever that would be. What kinda question is that?

"Would you like an imaginary, cool new skill"
"Why yes OP I would like a new fun thing for my job"

Would I want it more because you decide call it fracture? Heck no.

The Bloodbath nostalgia is real for me. It's original form would obviously be too OP with everything war has now, but spamming SC is simply not as satisfying as popping Berserk/Vengeance/Bloodbath while overpowering away and seeing nothing but a green column of self heals. I mean it was really the only thing to look forward to in dungeons! Least for me lol

I personally wouldn't mind have a dot back, though I understand the general disdain some have for them.

Nothing really to say about Foresight. But..

As Aana suggests, I think it'd be better to just make them new abilities with new names. And really, if we are looking ahead to 70>80 skills it's entirely possible we get the "essence" of one or more of these abilities. A low power fluff CD, new dot attack, etc etc (I don't know if we'd get another self heal or not, we already have a pretty good kit for that)

Oh, forgot Mercy Stroke. I'm not really sure why they got rid of this, other than maybe war being the only tank with a finisher move? or button bloat, I guess. I can kinda see why they took it away from melee dps, at least those which already had a finisher move of their own.

That being said, I wouldn't trade what we have now to get any of those things back.

I'd want to see Foresight return to DRK, with maybe a weaker version of blood bath attached to it lol.
They need more fluff CDs, and a way to help handle more physical damage intake. (paired with TBN should be able to handle physical TBs fine.)

For WAR, maybe mix a "weak" blood bath effect with Thrill of Battle. And it can be used as a filler fluff CD, when not being used for TBs or Upheaval.

Please do not bring these back. I personally love warrior where it is at.

Mercy Stroke was most beneficial as a DPS boost during the last 20%. If anything I would like to see it added to DPS classes as an 'optional' action. We all know it wouldn't be optional at the end of the day XD.

I would love to have bloodbath back! It was a fantastic skill.

Bloodbath plus Vengeance was always pretty damn nice. Now with Inner Release allowing the spamming of Steel Cyclone and Inner Beast the fact is that no Warrior will ever have any issues in a dungeon. Like, just SC and IR are enough for one pull, you can immediately go to the next if you can combine Bloodbath and Vengeance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aana

No, no, and no.

These skills were bad, boring, outdated or all 3. Let the dead rest.

If you bring them back 'in a different form' then you aren't bringing them back. You are just making a new skill and giving it an old name. A new super awesome, fun, interesting skill? Of course I'd take whatever that would be. What kinda question is that?

---

Would you say Inner Release is boring? It's essentially a remake of Mighty Strikes from FFXIV 1.0. Almost all the skills in the game today are revamps of 1.0 skills.

1.0 launch abilities

http://www.final-fantasy-14.org/abilities/main

1.20 ability changes

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post476429

1.21 job abilities

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post580997

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

The Bloodbath nostalgia is real for me. Spamming SC is simply not as satisfying as popping Berserk/Vengeance/Bloodbath while overpowering away and seeing nothing but a green column of self-heals. I mean it was really the only thing to look forward to in dungeons! Least for me lol

I personally wouldn't mind have a dot back, though I understand the general disdain some have for them.

---

Agreed Bloodbath+Overpower+Berserk was fun as heck. I also always wondered why WAR doesn't have AOE dot but then I thought: I guess Vengeance is our AOE dot (sorta). As a person who also plays PLD, would it be too much to ask to get a Circle of Scorn like AOE dot for WAR ?

Foresight was trash tier, bloodbath isn't needed anymore, and mercy stroke was crazy hard to use skillfully. Fracture would be really cool if it were reworked to be a DOT applied by fell cleave.

DoTs are a waste of time for Tanks. Just another button....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AncientCrystal

DoTs are a waste of time for Tanks. Just another button....

---

Most abilities are.
Though the question is, "Are they fun to use?"
Which I tend to think DoTs are not fun to use in most cases.

The only exception, was Fracture, as I tried to get a Fracture off during my berserk window.

But, it was only "Barely" fun to do that, and more often than not, I'd have enjoyed the play style of DRK over WAR, and for DRK, scourge wasnt fun. It wasnt awful either, just filler, and felt like a waste of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Do people read? I'm suggesting they bring it in the future with new and improved versions of themselves, hopefully in the next big expansion in which PLD/DRK would get new skills as well. I'm not asking them to come back now, as they were. It would be Nostalgic. How can we predict it will be unbalanced without knowing what PLD/DRK would get and how SE will balance the classes even futher before the next expansion?

---

Apologies. Too many threads on wanting certain abilities back and assumed this were another one.

As for tweaked version. There wouldn't be much purpose unless they just wanted to preserve the animation ala DRK wanting Scourge back. Bloodbath was already merged into Steel Cyclone, thus it technically already exists for WAR, albeit nowhere near as insane. I'd rather a better exclusive CD be added for DRK than Foresight seeing any tweaks because that instantly benefits WAR/PLD, which only hinders DRK more.

They took out Brutal Swing to consolidate CC abilities and not have us spam them for damage. Bringing it back sans the CC would be redundant since Upheaval fills that role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Do people read? I'm suggesting they bring it in the future with new and improved versions of themselves, hopefully in the next big expansion in which PLD/DRK would get new skills as well. I'm not asking them to come back now, as they were. It would be Nostalgic. How can we predict it will be unbalanced without knowing what PLD/DRK would get and how SE will balance the classes even futher before the next expansion?

---

Bloodbath was unbalanced back in the days with zerg+decimate+overpower, bringing it back in a new and improved way would therefor be just that.
These skills are gone for a reason and I would rather see new kind of skills in an expansion then SE being lazy by giving us old skills "improved".

I think I'd rather they bring back Brutal Swing, if anything, as a class-specific stun (and same with Low Blow for DRK) in order to free up a role skill slot, same as with Esuna/Leeches/whatever the AST one was on healers.

Only really care about having Mercy stroke back. Simply because my muscle memory still makes me try to hit it whenever a mob is almost dead.

Bloodbath as a Role Skills option, sure. Same with Second Wind, ideally with it buffed across the board to be more than a tickle.

Fracture? Not really. Buttonflow-wise and rotationally it fit Monk better than Warrior.

Foresight was a painfully lackluster ability in its previous form. Honestly I don't think Warrior should have even gotten Rampart, either, though. I'd have preferred if they had dealt with that need in their own way, and Dark Knight had seen Shadowskin reworked to be more unique and cohesive.

Mercy Stroke would be better off as a trait unique to Warrior. Overkill damage heals you. Done.

As for "new and improved versions"... What's left after all these improvements, then? The function? The name? None of these really seem any better than <the prospect of a new ability, untitled and undescribed>...

Fracture would have worked if they'd have allowed it to generate a stack / beast gauge. It used to be more overall damage than Fell Cleave.

But they'll never bring it back because in SB they got rid of a LOT of DoTs due to the dot cap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Apologies. Too many threads on wanting certain abilities back and assumed this were another one.

As for tweaked version. There wouldn't be much purpose unless they just wanted to preserve the animation ala DRK wanting Scourge back. Bloodbath was already merged into Steel Cyclone, thus it technically already exists for WAR, albeit nowhere near as insane. I'd rather a better exclusive CD be added for DRK than Foresight seeing any tweaks because that instantly benefits WAR/PLD, which only hinders DRK more.

They took out Brutal Swing to consolidate CC abilities and not have us spam them for damage. Bringing it back sans the CC would be redundant since Upheaval fills that role.

---

Thank you. I appreciate your more elaborate response. I still disagree with regard to your point on Brutal Swing tho. They should have never taken it away. Removing it was unnecessary.While the damage was nice, on targets that are stun-able, it was essentially a Defensive cooldown since you wouldn't take any damage.Paladin has Shield Bash and Shield Swipe, Both do damage, both on a short cooldown and they don't have to use a cross-class slot to use them. War and DRK on the other hand, have to choose to cross class it, which from my experience most don't use it since there are more valuable skills to CC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Do people read? I'm suggesting they bring it in the future with new and improved versions of themselves,

---

So basically new abilities?

That's not bringing back the old abilities, that's just bringing back their names.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Would you say Inner Release is boring? It's essentially a remake of Mighty Strikes from FFXIV 1.0. Almost all the skills in the game today are revamps of 1.0 skills.

1.0 launch abilities

http://www.final-fantasy-14.org/abilities/main

1.20 ability changes

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post476429

1.21 job abilities

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post580997

---

Which is just a remake of War's iconic 2 hour ability Mighty Strikes in FFXI (Everything crits for a duration).

Yes. Its boring. I said as much in a few threads about the skill when it was announced after the live letter. The old IR/Zerk combo rewarded better play with more damage by properly setting up for your burst windows. All of that is gone.

The changes to defiance/unchained are more 'fun' or 'interesting' because they open up more defiance play and we all know tank stances uses have been shrinking over the patches. So that's refreshing.

But IR as a skill is just herp derp hit FC x5. WOW IM SO GOOD! Theres no satisfaction in that. Going through a 10 minute fight with crazy mechanics and finally landing every zerk and IR window to their max after weeks or months of optimizing and practicing. That was satisfying and gave an extra post-clear set of goals to really aim for once you can clear a fight while still being powerful skills even if you didn't perfectly use them.

Blood Bath: As a role action? I feel like it'd make War too OP and doesn't synergize well with Drk as much as it does War or Pld, it'd make War too strong and Drk once again at a disadvantage so no for me as Steel Cyclone already gives enough HP, Pld benefits from it from Total Eclipse and CoS, Drk isn't affected except for Quietus and single target.

Fracture: Nope don't need it or want it, it's just another thing to make it "look" like you're busy refreshing that DoT that is just there for another button, same can be said for Scourge was just another button.

Foresight: Don't need that either, just give Dark Mind able to reduce physical as well as magical damage and leave Foresight out as Drk is the only tank that needs defensive buffs.

Mercy Stroke: Tanks no longer have an execute but it was used to infrequently I don't think bringing it back would do anything really, sure it's another OGCD but that's about it.

Bloodbath is rendered fairly unnecessary by the changes to steel cyclone and inner release, as it was a skill that was largely useful for fat pulls in dungeons. Fracture was a skill that I didn't miss due to its niche use and difficulty of actually fitting into a rotation. Foresight was a heap of crap, just change Dark Mind so that it isn't crap.

Mercy stroke is alright, I personally didn't really miss it but I guess it was kind of neat, though I'm not a fan of execution skills in general.