SAM rotation | DPS

Hey guys,

So I've been playing SAM for a bit but clearly, my DPS is still suffering. I made a video for you to have a look at on the dummy for sigmascape 1.

Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZsz0WBNvnc

If any SAM's watch this, please give me pointers and ways to improve. I don't wanna hold my team back, so any pointers would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks for the time taken to view and help me :)

Thanks very much
Chaosprime Zero

no SAM's willing to part some help? :/

Can you post the rotation you're using in text? Youtube is acting funny on the computer I'm on but...

But it looks like you're doing the following:
Ka>Getsu>Kasha rotation to set up Kaiten+Midare, then apply Kaiten+Higanbana and then going through the rotation again.

I may have missed it, but are you using Shinten when you have a surplus of Kenki?

Your speed looks good and you're maintaining your buffs using the Ka>Getsu>Kasha rotation. I assume the movements you're making to the sides/rear are following the positional requirements for Getsu and Kasha rotations.

Also, when in a single fight, I like to use Guren to supplement Kaiten+Midare, I didn't see you use it, but I could have missed that. It costs 50 kenki, but I've never had a problem maintaining Kenki, the damage it deals in a single attack is nice if you have the Kenki to spare.

Can you post gear information along with any material enhancements you have?

Edit:
If you're entering a fight after fighting in a dungeon, I like to walk into mini boss and boss fights with full kenki and Ka, Getsu, Kasha already standing by if I can. This allows me to open with Kaiten+Midare, drop Guren, (lowering me to 25 kenki), apply Kaiten+Haganbana, then hit shisui to refresh Ka/Getsu/Kasha and run another Kaiten+Midare combo.

Working through my combos, I rebuild Kenki, using Shinten when I can afford to, and once Guren cools down, I drop it again. I've tried to use Hagakure during a fight, but it never seems to work out well for me, I feel like I'm giving up DPS by losing built-up Sen. I could be wrong. I use Hagakure in the second to the last fight (usually) before a boss or somewhere in-between to help build kenki.

Weapon: Byakko
Head: Genji
Body: Augmented Lost Allaghan
Hands: Genji
Waist: Carborundum
Legs: Genji
Feet: Carborundum
Earring: Augmented Lost Allaghan
Neck: Augmented Lost Allaghan
Bracelet: Genji
Ring 1: Genji
Rin 2: Diamond Ring

Thats my gear. Meld was BiS for last raid.

Rotation:

Hakaze> Shifu > Kasha > Hakaza > Jinpu > Gekko >Meikyo Shihui > Shinten > Yukikaze > Hagakure > Guren > Gekko > Kaiten > Higanbana > Gekko > Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha > Hakaze > Yukikaze > Kaiten > Midare > Shinten

Thats my opening

I then apply Higanbana as it drops (not always perfectly but yeah) and then use shinten when i have excess Kenki

if i have Meikyo down and Guren down i use hagakure and then use Shinten in between skills.

if meikyo is up and guren is up then i use my opening ration again but essentially, i keep buffs up.

Thats what im doing at presentI use 3 sen opener instead of 1 sen cause we have a NIN and not a DRG

Hope this helps

Immediately, if you use Meikyo how you are in the video, you'll drop buffs every time (outside of the opener). I'll hit you off with notes and maybe I can get you a video showing what I do, but I'll drop a link to a thread for you that you might enjoy as well. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...S-Guide/page23


- First glaring mistake at about a minute in. You have Hagakure available, but use Kaiten-Midare instead. Use Hagakure here, and keep a close eye on your Hagakure cooldown. Sometimes it won't be available right as you hit 3-Sen, but it will be available for use in the middle of an upcoming combo. For example- Yukikaze (in this example, charges your 3rd/final Sen)>Hakaze>Shifu (Hagakure)>Kasha. That gives you about a 2 GCD (depending on your GCD, 4-5 second) buffer to make sure you aren't just sitting on Hagakure. --As a side note, in the average 10 minute fight, you could lose potential overall casts of Hagakure by letting it sit on cooldown for 5 seconds every time it comes up. Lost casts means instead of like, (arbitrary number) 5 Hagakure's total, you may have only managed 4 Hagakure's total because you let it sit too long, too often. That's just lost DPS on the table.

- You lost your buffs due to using Meikyo Shisui in the middle of a combo, before you applied the buff from said combo. Weave Meikyo as your oGCD after Gekko, Kasha, or Yukikaze. The only other time you use it differently is for AoE, generally speaking.

- Minimal, but important mistake: Don't double-weave oGCD if you don't have to. The more you do that, the more you eat into your GCD. For some Jobs, BRD for example, you kind of have to because things sit on GCD for unacceptable amounts of time if you don't (lost overall casts). Or on other Jobs because of buff stacking for burst/lining up with other raid buffs. Basically, eating into the GCD is a cost, but the benefit is greater than the cost. SAM doesn't really benefit or have a significant reason to do it other than in their opener, or mid-fight where you basically have another opener available. A good example of when you do this is 2:56 into the video. Hagakure>Shinten>Hakaze. You can see how long it takes you to get Hakaze to register, and you want to avoid that problem like the plague.

- General Kenki management. There's nothing inherently wrong with waiting to use Shinten, as there's no real cooldown/potential lost uses outside of overflowing your gauge or missing buffed shintens (trick/pot/balance, etc). However, managing your Kenki is extremely easy and will lead you to less worry about overflow from things like Hagakure. You can use a Shinten any time you hit 35 Kenki without worry. Your next combo will always leave you with enough Kenki to use Kaiten for whatever purpose.

thanks a bunch! Ill gi and try these and see how it works out. Many thanks for the response. So im not far off just few tidbits here and there and bad habbits i guess

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Acebris_Etheyr

I've tried to use Hagakure during a fight, but it never seems to work out well for me, I feel like I'm giving up DPS by losing built-up Sen. I could be wrong.

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You pretty much always want to be using hagakure on 3 sen instead of midare.. to pinch from what I said in a thread not so long ago..Hagakure thread

without hagakure
hakaza (150) > shifu (280) > kasha (400) > hakaza (150) > jinpu (280) > gecko (400) > hakaza (150) > yukikaze (340) > kaiten midare (1080)
= 21 seconds (3,230 potency)
hakaza (150) > shifu (280) > kasha (400) > hakaza (150) > jinpu (280) > gecko (400) > hakaza (150) > yukikaze (340) > kaiten midare (1080)
= 21 seconds (3,230 potency)
total 42 seconds. (6,460 potency) (153 potency per second)

With Hagakure @3 sen
hakaza (150) > shifu (280) > kasha (400) > hakaza (150) > jinpu (280) > gecko (400) > hakaza (150) > yukikaze (340) > hagakure
= 18 seconds (2,150 potency)
hakaza (150) > shinten (300) > shifu (280) > shinten (300) > kasha (400) > shinten (300) > hakaza (150) > jinpu (280) > gecko (400) > hakaza (150) > yukikaze (340) > kaiten midare (1080)
= 21 seconds (4,130 potency)
total 39 seconds. (6,280 potency)(161 potency per second)

this is roughly a 5% increase in your potency per second. using hagakure instead of midare.
I say roughly because it's pretty raw. I haven't factored gear, skill speed, buffs or any of that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nominous

First glaring mistake at about a minute in. You have Hagakure available, but use Kaiten-Midare instead. Use Hagakure here, and keep a close eye on your Hagakure cooldown. Sometimes it won't be available right as you hit 3-Sen, but it will be available for use in the middle of an upcoming combo. For example- Yukikaze (in this example, charges your 3rd/final Sen)>Hakaze>Shifu (Hagakure)>Kasha. That gives you about a 2 GCD (depending on your GCD, 4-5 second) buffer to make sure you aren't just sitting on Hagakure. --As a side note, in the average 10 minute fight, you could lose potential overall casts of Hagakure by letting it sit on cooldown for 5 seconds every time it comes up. Lost casts means instead of like, (arbitrary number) 5 Hagakure's total, you may have only managed 4 Hagakure's total because you let it sit too long, too often. That's just lost DPS on the table..

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also this isn't exactly true. in most cases sitting on hagakure even for 10-12 seconds while you build 3 sen. will in most cases result in a dps gain. again stolen from the threadi linked near top of this post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gr1mwolf

Another point of confusion I've seen argued a lot is whether Hagakure should always be used immediately with at least 1 Sen, or wait until you build 3 Sen.
If we say that Hagakure is worth 720p every 40s when used on cooldown with 3 Sen, that would be 18 PPS.
Let's give the most extreme case, and say the cooldown comes up when you have 1 Sen from Yukikaze, and no Skill Speed.
You should always have Shifu, putting you at 2.25s recast.
It would take 13.5 seconds (2.25x6) to get up to 3 Sen, costing 243p (13.5x18) compared to if you already had 3 Sen.
If you used Hagakure at 1 Sen, it would have had 240p. A net loss of only 3 potency in THE most extreme case.
Let's be more reasonable, and say that you have 2 Sen, and can use Yukikaze.
It would take 4.5 seconds (2.25x2) to reach 3 Sen, costing 81p (4.5x18), but with a gain of 240p on Hagakure. A net gain of 159p.

Even a tiny amount of Skill Speed should cause them to break even on the worst case.
Mathematically, you should always build 3.

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The only real time this isn't true is either if building to 3 will interfere with your Higabana management. Or Fight mechanics cause you to change your rotation. in most other cases sitting on hagakure till you have 3 sen is worth it in my experience at least

So basically hagakure and shinten use instead of midare unless hagakure is down in which case use midare/higan as appropriate?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzian

in most other cases sitting on hagakure till you have 3 sen is worth it in my experience at least

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Losing casts isn't the end of the world (entirely), especially for Hagakure, where there's a variable worth to each cast you do or don't get with it. I could get a 1, 2, or 3 (Sen) charge for each cast, so the loss of a cast that would at best be 1-Sen Hagakure for example, wouldn't hurt that much. So you're right in that regard. I don't think there's a bunch of hard math on that, because it seems like it'd be difficult to properly calculate the worth of lost casts vs. sitting on it earlier in fights to get up to 3-Sen charges.

Generally speaking though, losing potential casts over the course of a fight is not ideal. That's not saying you should hit Hagakure at 2-Sen to avoid this, but it's to say you should avoid holding it so that you can use Midare, for example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzian

You pretty much always want to be using hagakure on 3 sen instead of midare.. to pinch from what I said in a thread not so long ago..Hagakure thread

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I'll give the rotation you posted a shot, see how that works for me.

Maybe I can help OP. My SAM is about ilvl 335, and I've been able to beat the 05S dummy with 2-3 seconds to spare using a Byakko weapon. As a result of my gear, I have ~1800 SkS and mid 1200's on crit and DH. My opener goes Kasha combo > Hagakure > Gekko combo > Kaiten+Meikyo > Higanbana > Yukikaze+Guren > Kasha > Gekko > Kaiten+Midare then proceed as usual, throwing out Shinten's as needed, and basically using Hagakure on CD (usually 1-2 Sen, sometimes 3). I like this opener because it gets Hagakure, Meikyo and Guren on CD pretty quickly, meaning they're up more often over the course of a fight. I'm not a pro SAM by any means, but it works for me. Hope it helps and good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quor

Maybe I can help OP. My SAM is about ilvl 335, and I've been able to beat the 05S dummy with 2-3 seconds to spare using a Byakko weapon. As a result of my gear, I have ~1800 SkS and mid 1200's on crit and DH. My opener goes Kasha combo > Hagakure > Gekko combo > Kaiten+Meikyo > Higanbana > Yukikaze+Guren > Kasha > Gekko > Kaiten+Midare then proceed as usual, throwing out Shinten's as needed, and basically using Hagakure on CD (usually 1-2 Sen, sometimes 3). I like this opener because it gets Hagakure, Meikyo and Guren on CD pretty quickly, meaning they're up more often over the course of a fight. I'm not a pro SAM by any means, but it works for me. Hope it helps and good luck.

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Keeping hagakure on cool down by using it on 1-2 sen doesn't really pay off in the long run.
For example based on your post. if you use hagakure 10 times in lets say 7 minutes at 1-2 sen each time, you're total kenki gain is a maximum 400.
if however you wait and use hagakure 7 times in 7 minutes always at 3 sen you're total kenki gain is 420. (average of hagakure every 60 seconds gives you a very generous 20 seconds to build any extra sen each time.)

in this instance hagakure can be sitting there for a 20 seconds every minute off cooldown and you're still better off. if some of those 10 hagkures you used were only 1 sen then the gain from waiting for 3 is going to be even bigger.

it's nearly always worth building to 3 rather than simply using it on cooldown.

If I wantto get higabana up early the opener I generally do is something like this.

hakaze > shifu > kasha > hakaze > jinpu > kaiten + higabana > gecko > meikyo > yukikaze > shinten> kasha > hagakure. > guren > gecko > shinten> hakaze > shifu > kasha > hakaze > shinten > yukikaze > kaiten + meikyo.

should just about manage to get jinpu refreshed before it drops off.

My advice: Get to a GCD of 2s or slightly less. Then everything kind of syncs up on its own.

If you have a WAR, the WS rotation is invariably Ka-Getsu-Setsu, with Higan on 6th GCD for 3Sen or 7th for 1Sen Hagakure. 3Sen for 6th GCD Trick Attack, 1Sen for 7th. 3Sen will more often be preferable. For 1Sen, Potion before Gekka (before GCD 6). For 3Sen, you can Potion before Kasha (before GCD 3).

If you have no WAR, I personally prefer to pre-cast MKSS and just get in Yukikaze, Shifu, Kasha, with a 2Sen opening Hagakure, though you can move it a GCD earlier with a 1Sen Haga right after Yukikaze. Depending on your GCD and prepull reliability, you can swap the Kasha and therefore 2Sen a GCD earlier, delaying Shifu to GCD#3.

If MKSS comes up just before you'd use Iajutsu, pop it first so it comes back a GCD faster, so long as you can still get all 3 hits into the 10s duration.

Keep Kenki below 30 unless you know you can burn the excess before your next Hagakure. Bank as much as possible when your next Guren will arrive before your next Hagakure. If it's arriving in the same GCD, burn to 70 (or 90 with necessary Dash).

Dummy test. At around a 2.15 GCD, Hagakure 2 and 5 need to be 2Sen to replace Higanbana in time, iirc. At a >2.45 or <2.00 GCD, 3Sen should time out correctly.

At a 2.45 GCD, a 1Sen opener will allow you to perfect every Hagakure to follow if you keep full uptime. Crit purity recommended.

I have a quick question. I'm using the 350 crafted gear, what should I be going for in terms of Materia (I won't be overmelding). Here are my current stats:


Offensive Properties
Critical Hit Rate 1293
Determination 1013
Direct Hit Rate 1386

Physical Properties
Attack Power 2626
Skill Speed 1159

I'm just coming back to the game after a bit of a break, any tips are appreciated. I'm also using this as a way to understand what I should be prioritizing and opening with:
https://imgur.com/mAcvEGg

Hey, are you still playing the game? If so, and your are still playing SAM, hit me up!

IGN: Ecchy Mosis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itesh_Sennin

I have a quick question. I'm using the 350 crafted gear, what should I be going for in terms of Materia (I won't be overmelding). Here are my current stats:


Offensive Properties
Critical Hit Rate 1293
Determination 1013
Direct Hit Rate 1386

Physical Properties
Attack Power 2626
Skill Speed 1159

I'm just coming back to the game after a bit of a break, any tips are appreciated. I'm also using this as a way to understand what I should be prioritizing and opening with:
https://imgur.com/mAcvEGg

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Not overmelding is kind of a waste to be honest. You should overmeld, and just base your materia off of the type of build you want to use between SKS and CRIT. Another thing I can recommend you do, is join The Balance discord server and just occasionally read up on the conversations and ask questions. Most of the time, questions you might have will have been answered and is a quick search away. It's helped me improve significantly. The pins are useful too.

you put higanbana kinda late
@1:02 you used midare even though hagakure had ~4s left on its CD, you could've done hakaze->jinpu (hagakure)->gekko
@1:17 hagakure used with 2 sen instead of 3
@1:25 you used yukikaze combo to setup a sen for higanbana, yuki combo has the lowest potency
@1:45 you did hakaze->meikyo->yuki essentially wasting a "charge" of meikyo
@1:54 midare when hagakure has 2s left on its CD (again)
@1:55 shifu ran out, instead of refreshing it as quickly as possible you did a yuki combo first
@2:05 jinpu ran out
@2:15 when you see that guren has 5-10s left on cd right after using hagakure, hold kenki for it instead of spamming shintens
@2:42 the higanbana you put here was a dps loss, higanbana needs to tick for at least 45s to be a dps increase

+im guessing your gear is kinda meh, try to aim for this http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/157NG

Holl Necro Batman

https://i.imgur.com/0pd7Oco.png