SAM rotation | DPS

[KaosPrimeZero]

Hey guys,

So I've been playing SAM for a bit but clearly, my DPS is still suffering. I made a video for you to have a look at on the dummy for sigmascape 1.

Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZsz0WBNvnc

If any SAM's watch this, please give me pointers and ways to improve. I don't wanna hold my team back, so any pointers would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks for the time taken to view and help me

Thanks very much
Chaosprime Zero

[KaosPrimeZero]

no SAM's willing to part some help? :/

[Acebris_Etheyr]

Can you post the rotation you're using in text? Youtube is acting funny on the computer I'm on but...

But it looks like you're doing the following:
Ka>Getsu>Kasha rotation to set up Kaiten+Midare, then apply Kaiten+Higanbana and then going through the rotation again.

I may have missed it, but are you using Shinten when you have a surplus of Kenki?

Your speed looks good and you're maintaining your buffs using the Ka>Getsu>Kasha rotation. I assume the movements you're making to the sides/rear are following the positional requirements for Getsu and Kasha rotations.

Also, when in a single fight, I like to use Guren to supplement Kaiten+Midare, I didn't see you use it, but I could have missed that. It costs 50 kenki, but I've never had a problem maintaining Kenki, the damage it deals in a single attack is nice if you have the Kenki to spare.

Can you post gear information along with any material enhancements you have?

Edit:
If you're entering a fight after fighting in a dungeon, I like to walk into mini boss and boss fights with full kenki and Ka, Getsu, Kasha already standing by if I can. This allows me to open with Kaiten+Midare, drop Guren, (lowering me to 25 kenki), apply Kaiten+Haganbana, then hit shisui to refresh Ka/Getsu/Kasha and run another Kaiten+Midare combo.

Working through my combos, I rebuild Kenki, using Shinten when I can afford to, and once Guren cools down, I drop it again. I've tried to use Hagakure during a fight, but it never seems to work out well for me, I feel like I'm giving up DPS by losing built-up Sen. I could be wrong. I use Hagakure in the second to the last fight (usually) before a boss or somewhere in-between to help build kenki.

[KaosPrimeZero]

Weapon: Byakko
Head: Genji
Body: Augmented Lost Allaghan
Hands: Genji
Waist: Carborundum
Legs: Genji
Feet: Carborundum
Earring: Augmented Lost Allaghan
Neck: Augmented Lost Allaghan
Bracelet: Genji
Ring 1: Genji
Rin 2: Diamond Ring

Thats my gear. Meld was BiS for last raid.

Rotation:

Hakaze> Shifu > Kasha > Hakaza > Jinpu > Gekko >Meikyo Shihui > Shinten > Yukikaze > Hagakure > Guren > Gekko > Kaiten > Higanbana > Gekko > Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha > Hakaze > Yukikaze > Kaiten > Midare > Shinten

Thats my opening

I then apply Higanbana as it drops (not always perfectly but yeah) and then use shinten when i have excess Kenki

if i have Meikyo down and Guren down i use hagakure and then use Shinten in between skills.

if meikyo is up and guren is up then i use my opening ration again but essentially, i keep buffs up.

Thats what im doing at presentI use 3 sen opener instead of 1 sen cause we have a NIN and not a DRG

Hope this helps

[Nominous]

Immediately, if you use Meikyo how you are in the video, you'll drop buffs every time (outside of the opener). I'll hit you off with notes and maybe I can get you a video showing what I do, but I'll drop a link to a thread for you that you might enjoy as well. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...S-Guide/page23


- First glaring mistake at about a minute in. You have Hagakure available, but use Kaiten-Midare instead. Use Hagakure here, and keep a close eye on your Hagakure cooldown. Sometimes it won't be available right as you hit 3-Sen, but it will be available for use in the middle of an upcoming combo. For example- Yukikaze (in this example, charges your 3rd/final Sen)>Hakaze>Shifu (Hagakure)>Kasha. That gives you about a 2 GCD (depending on your GCD, 4-5 second) buffer to make sure you aren't just sitting on Hagakure. --As a side note, in the average 10 minute fight, you could lose potential overall casts of Hagakure by letting it sit on cooldown for 5 seconds every time it comes up. Lost casts means instead of like, (arbitrary number) 5 Hagakure's total, you may have only managed 4 Hagakure's total because you let it sit too long, too often. That's just lost DPS on the table.

- You lost your buffs due to using Meikyo Shisui in the middle of a combo, before you applied the buff from said combo. Weave Meikyo as your oGCD after Gekko, Kasha, or Yukikaze. The only other time you use it differently is for AoE, generally speaking.

- Minimal, but important mistake: Don't double-weave oGCD if you don't have to. The more you do that, the more you eat into your GCD. For some Jobs, BRD for example, you kind of have to because things sit on GCD for unacceptable amounts of time if you don't (lost overall casts). Or on other Jobs because of buff stacking for burst/lining up with other raid buffs. Basically, eating into the GCD is a cost, but the benefit is greater than the cost. SAM doesn't really benefit or have a significant reason to do it other than in their opener, or mid-fight where you basically have another opener available. A good example of when you do this is 2:56 into the video. Hagakure>Shinten>Hakaze. You can see how long it takes you to get Hakaze to register, and you want to avoid that problem like the plague.

- General Kenki management. There's nothing inherently wrong with waiting to use Shinten, as there's no real cooldown/potential lost uses outside of overflowing your gauge or missing buffed shintens (trick/pot/balance, etc). However, managing your Kenki is extremely easy and will lead you to less worry about overflow from things like Hagakure. You can use a Shinten any time you hit 35 Kenki without worry. Your next combo will always leave you with enough Kenki to use Kaiten for whatever purpose.

[KaosPrimeZero]

thanks a bunch! Ill gi and try these and see how it works out. Many thanks for the response. So im not far off just few tidbits here and there and bad habbits i guess

[Dzian]

I've tried to use Hagakure during a fight, but it never seems to work out well for me, I feel like I'm giving up DPS by losing built-up Sen. I could be wrong.

You pretty much always want to be using hagakure on 3 sen instead of midare.. to pinch from what I said in a thread not so long ago..Hagakure thread

without hagakure
hakaza (150) > shifu (280) > kasha (400) > hakaza (150) > jinpu (280) > gecko (400) > hakaza (150) > yukikaze (340) > kaiten midare (1080)
= 21 seconds (3,230 potency)
hakaza (150) > shifu (280) > kasha (400) > hakaza (150) > jinpu (280) > gecko (400) > hakaza (150) > yukikaze (340) > kaiten midare (1080)
= 21 seconds (3,230 potency)
total 42 seconds. (6,460 potency) (153 potency per second)

With Hagakure @3 sen
hakaza (150) > shifu (280) > kasha (400) > hakaza (150) > jinpu (280) > gecko (400) > hakaza (150) > yukikaze (340) > hagakure
= 18 seconds (2,150 potency)
hakaza (150) > shinten (300) > shifu (280) > shinten (300) > kasha (400) > shinten (300) > hakaza (150) > jinpu (280) > gecko (400) > hakaza (150) > yukikaze (340) > kaiten midare (1080)
= 21 seconds (4,130 potency)
total 39 seconds. (6,280 potency)(161 potency per second)

this is roughly a 5% increase in your potency per second. using hagakure instead of midare.
I say roughly because it's pretty raw. I haven't factored gear, skill speed, buffs or any of that.

First glaring mistake at about a minute in. You have Hagakure available, but use Kaiten-Midare instead. Use Hagakure here, and keep a close eye on your Hagakure cooldown. Sometimes it won't be available right as you hit 3-Sen, but it will be available for use in the middle of an upcoming combo. For example- Yukikaze (in this example, charges your 3rd/final Sen)>Hakaze>Shifu (Hagakure)>Kasha. That gives you about a 2 GCD (depending on your GCD, 4-5 second) buffer to make sure you aren't just sitting on Hagakure. --As a side note, in the average 10 minute fight, you could lose potential overall casts of Hagakure by letting it sit on cooldown for 5 seconds every time it comes up. Lost casts means instead of like, (arbitrary number) 5 Hagakure's total, you may have only managed 4 Hagakure's total because you let it sit too long, too often. That's just lost DPS on the table..

also this isn't exactly true. in most cases sitting on hagakure even for 10-12 seconds while you build 3 sen. will in most cases result in a dps gain. again stolen from the threadi linked near top of this post.

Another point of confusion I've seen argued a lot is whether Hagakure should always be used immediately with at least 1 Sen, or wait until you build 3 Sen.
If we say that Hagakure is worth 720p every 40s when used on cooldown with 3 Sen, that would be 18 PPS.
Let's give the most extreme case, and say the cooldown comes up when you have 1 Sen from Yukikaze, and no Skill Speed.
You should always have Shifu, putting you at 2.25s recast.
It would take 13.5 seconds (2.25x6) to get up to 3 Sen, costing 243p (13.5x18) compared to if you already had 3 Sen.
If you used Hagakure at 1 Sen, it would have had 240p. A net loss of only 3 potency in THE most extreme case.
Let's be more reasonable, and say that you have 2 Sen, and can use Yukikaze.
It would take 4.5 seconds (2.25x2) to reach 3 Sen, costing 81p (4.5x18), but with a gain of 240p on Hagakure. A net gain of 159p.

Even a tiny amount of Skill Speed should cause them to break even on the worst case.
Mathematically, you should always build 3.

The only real time this isn't true is either if building to 3 will interfere with your Higabana management. Or Fight mechanics cause you to change your rotation. in most other cases sitting on hagakure till you have 3 sen is worth it in my experience at least

[KaosPrimeZero]

So basically hagakure and shinten use instead of midare unless hagakure is down in which case use midare/higan as appropriate?

[Nominous]

in most other cases sitting on hagakure till you have 3 sen is worth it in my experience at least

Losing casts isn't the end of the world (entirely), especially for Hagakure, where there's a variable worth to each cast you do or don't get with it. I could get a 1, 2, or 3 (Sen) charge for each cast, so the loss of a cast that would at best be 1-Sen Hagakure for example, wouldn't hurt that much. So you're right in that regard. I don't think there's a bunch of hard math on that, because it seems like it'd be difficult to properly calculate the worth of lost casts vs. sitting on it earlier in fights to get up to 3-Sen charges.

Generally speaking though, losing potential casts over the course of a fight is not ideal. That's not saying you should hit Hagakure at 2-Sen to avoid this, but it's to say you should avoid holding it so that you can use Midare, for example.

[Acebris_Etheyr]

You pretty much always want to be using hagakure on 3 sen instead of midare.. to pinch from what I said in a thread not so long ago..Hagakure thread

I'll give the rotation you posted a shot, see how that works for me.