Request: Raiding Chest Lock Party Finder Option

I'm making this post, purely because six people just got seriously shafted by two unknown players in the party I made. The six of us, oblivious to the two people lurking who had already cleared OS5 for the week, thus rendering us with only a single chest. (I did not see any messages upon entry - lesson learned).
We were asked each time people joined the party "Two chests?" we would answer "Yes". This happened several times. However, it's pretty damn malicious of people to join KNOWINGLY screwing the rest of the party over on the drops.

Request:
It doesn't need an additional button, but a tweaking of a pre-existing button. For example the "Loot" selection could be adjusted for the Savage portion of party finder to lock in max number of chests.
In opposition, "Duty Completion" could be adjusted to where it's not about the chests, but essentially just the book from completing.
These tags are both descriptive, so why not put them to proper use to?
OR, as Taika (post below) has mentioned: If the above is infeasible, make it so that the whole party is aware of the warning notice upon entry, not just a single player.

Please consider the request for change as it only takes one person to screw over an entire party, surely preventative measures can be put in place? Peoples word isn't worth much nowadays.
This happens all the time, we six are not in the boat alone, however this doesn't need to be the case.

(PS: I am aware of the raid finder options, however, the lock should be under party finder to prevent time wasters from even joining the party in the first place).

Even if there wasn't any party finder option for it, you could check if there's any sneaky sneak in your party who has cleared for the week by checking "duty completion" when signing up for the raid. If there are people who has cleared it for the week the game will not let you enter the raid.

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Originally Posted by XykeVayaris

Even if there wasn't any party finder option for it, you could check if there's any sneaky sneak in your party who has cleared for the week by checking "duty completion" when signing up for the raid. If there are people who has cleared it for the week the game will not let you enter the raid.

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And then we are back to point A of setting up the PF > waiting for people > checking the raid finder. It's a time waste.
A simple button would solve the issue of dealing with the untrustworthy (And people who don't read party descriptions).

In case someone in party has cleared for the week, the game will also warn you once you enter the instance with message like "<insert number> of 8 have completed the duty. The amount of coffer dropped will reduce to one (or zero if 4 or above have cleared)".

I'm sorry for your loss but if you and the others with you ignored or failed to notice such warning from the game itself, the fault is entirely yours.

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Originally Posted by RobinMalvin

In case someone in party has cleared for the week, the game will also warn you once you enter the instance with message like "<insert number> of 8 have completed the duty. The amount of coffer dropped will reduce to one (or zero if 4 or above have cleared)".

I'm sorry for your loss but if you and the others with you ignored or failed to notice such warning from the game itself, the fault is entirely yours.

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You miss the point: it's a request for an additional optional button, not a "QQ we can't read"

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Originally Posted by Kaldaka

You miss the point: it's a request for an additional optional button, not a "QQ we can't read"

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You sure? Cause the part of the post where you complained about only getting one chest certainly sounded like "QQ we can't read"

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

You sure? Cause the part of the post where you complained about only getting one chest certainly sounded like "QQ we can't read"

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Possitive. It was the reason behind the request - Also, not an intentional complaint, it's the cause of the post/request is all.
Did I word it badly?

Even with that option the party leader could mislead others (by setting it up after people who have already cleared for the week have joined, for example). The best change would be to change the warning to show for every single party member before entering the instance. Then everyone will know for sure how many chests there will be.

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Originally Posted by Taika

Even with that option the party leader could mislead others (by setting it up after people who have already cleared for the week have joined, for example). The best change would be to change the warning to show for every single party member before entering the instance. Then everyone will know for sure how many chests there will be.

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That's a good point, or people could "invite friends" but surely, if a party leader themselves or someone pre-existing in the group make up has indeed clear it, the button could be unclickable, to prevent the deception. Whatcha think? :)

On further thought, perhaps it doesn't even need an additional button, but a tweaking of a pre-existing button. For example the "Loot" selection could be adjusted for the Savage portion of party finder to lock in max number of chests.
In opposition, "Duty Completion" could be adjusted to where it's not about the chests, but essentially just the book from completing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaldaka

On further thought, perhaps it doesn't even need an additional button, but a tweaking of a pre-existing button. For example the "Loot" selection could be adjusted for the Savage portion of party finder to lock in max number of chests.

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I like this idea! The current loot button has no function, it's simply descriptive. It could be changed to "Full loot" button, locking the group only for people who are entitled to 2 chests in the instance.

To be honest though, I don't care what kind of a change they'll make, as long as the change means that party members don't have to blindly trust their party leader and fellow party members anymore.

I think Taika's solution is better, OP's proposed solution doesn't cover all scenarios, but a warning sent to everyone in the party would cover it.

Yeah the issue with the loot button idea is that there are 3 options: 2 chests, 1 chest, or 0 chest. I suspect it might be difficult to create an option for 1 chest groups within the PF system (I guess it would require the game to prevent further members with weekly clear from joining after the next person would remove the 1 chest). And it would make the system a bit complicated for groups that accept two or any of the three options. So all in all, the simplest solution would be keeping the current system while upon accepting to enter the duty the game would announce to all party members how many chests the group would be entitled to if they win.

Hate to be blunt but it’s your own damn fault for not clicking duty completion in raid finder before you go in or even specifying you want completion for the week in the party settings. Tut tut this is nobody’s fault but yours.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Hate to be blunt but it’s your own damn fault for not clicking duty completion in raid finder before you go in or even specifying you want completion for the week in the party settings. Tut tut this is nobody’s fault but yours.

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Many times I have joined a party and written in party chat "This is 2 chests right? Party leader, you are selecting "Duty Completion" when you queue us, right?" and despite their reassurances the party has ended up with 0-1 chests. There is absolutely nothing others than the party leader can do in this situation, which makes it a bad, unfair system that needs fixing.

(And yes, I can and do start my own parties and take that responsibility of the party leader to ensure 2 chests. BUT that only "fixes" the issue for me: everyone else in the group just has to blindly trust me in that situation. That's what needs changing.)

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Originally Posted by Taika

I like this idea! The current loot button has no function, it's simply descriptive. It could be changed to "Full loot" button, locking the group only for people who are entitled to 2 chests in the instance.

To be honest though, I don't care what kind of a change they'll make, as long as the change means that party members don't have to blindly trust their party leader and fellow party members anymore.

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Just updated the main post with it, as it kind of makes more sense to use what is already there, than to make something entirely new :)
Thanks for chatting with me! I doubt I'd have come to it without you making me stop and think :D

Added yours in too.

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Originally Posted by RobinMalvin

In case someone in party has cleared for the week, the game will also warn you once you enter the instance with message like "<insert number> of 8 have completed the duty. The amount of coffer dropped will reduce to one (or zero if 4 or above have cleared)".

I'm sorry for your loss but if you and the others with you ignored or failed to notice such warning from the game itself, the fault is entirely yours.

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This particular text doesn't show until AFTER you defeat the boss; it does not show up when you zone into the instance. Unless they have changed it for 4.2, the only messages that show up at the beginning of a Savage duty is a bonus message, if someone has a bonus. But the "[number] out of 8 have completed this duty for the week. The number of chests awarded is 0-1" only shows up after the boss has been killed.

Why does it shaft other players instead of just not letting them lot?

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Why does it shaft other players instead of just not letting them lot?

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Likely because if you didn't remove chests, it would allow you to sell endless amounts of Savage loot with just 7 characters, which is something the developers probably don't want to encourage.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Why does it shaft other players instead of just not letting them lot?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taika

Likely because if you didn't remove chests, it would allow you to sell endless amounts of Savage loot with just 7 characters, which is something the developers probably don't want to encourage.

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If I remember correctly (don't hold me to it, it's been years) it was because people were unable to re-enter a fight previously after completion (Back in the coil days).
Between Second/Final coil and Alexander, they changed the rules to what it currently is to both, allow friends to run content together outside of static groups, and the chest rules were put in place to stop seven people carrying a single person for extortionate amount of gil (if they were after the loot).

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Why does it shaft other players instead of just not letting them lot?

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Just based on mathematics, I have a good suspicion it's simply to control the rate at which loot is distributed to the public.

For every 16 players, there are at max, 4 pieces of raiding gear. 2x clears at 2 drops each.

If they ever implemented a ruleset where people who already cleared didn't affect the chest #s, just simply couldn't roll, you'd massively increase the amount of loot being distributed to the general public.

one group of 8 clears, gets 2x pieces of loot. 7 of those players then re-clear for each of the remaining 8 people in the other group, giving them each 2x pieces of loot. You've gone from 4 pieces of loot being distributed to the public to 18 pieces per 16 players. and that's just with a sample size of 16 players. In such a ruleset you could go even higher on the ratio. Obviously that's an extreme example, but FF14's systems are designed to keep the players playing as "theoretically" long as possible, and the current loot system makes sure the ratio always stays at maximum, 2 loot per 8 players.

The simplest solution is what Taika suggested, simply flash a big warning that's impossible to miss at all players when they attempt to accept the queue saying "X players have completed this instance this week. reducing coffers from a potential 2 to X".

While, as others have pointed out, there is an in-game mechanic to deal with this, players need to have their hands held harder because there are too many 0-1 chests when you join a group thinking it's a 2 chest. A large part of this, sadly, is party leaders deceiving players.

I wouldn't object to hard instance lockouts (vs loot lockouts) to deal with this once and for all. Yes, it doesn't let you help others out, but there is too much volatility, frustration, and griefing with 0-1 chests as-is.