WAR changes: a few days later

I made a post about my thoughts on the WAR changes prior to the patch.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...major-problems

TL;DR I had a pretty negative outlook. Early analysis suggested an increase in IB and FC usage, with a decrease in damage overall on a per-skill basis, and a flat decrease in AA damage. This was supposed to be made up for by the increased FC/IB usage, the higher overall damage of FC/IB thanks to the direct crits from IR, and the more frequent use of Infuriate via our passive that reduces it's CD. Much of this increased damage was predicated on having the necessary SkS to get 5x FC in a single IR window, as missing even one FC during that time would result in a pretty hefty spike in your overall DPS (relative to what it could be anyway).

Having had a few days with the changes, including some time in O5S and lots of Byakko EX runs, I can say I'm actually feeling pretty good about them. To an extent.

Pros:
-Setup for dps is much easier. It's 3 GCD's now instead of the 12 it took to fill up your beast gauge from empty to full.
-You really do use Infuriate a lot more. That's actually kinda nice, because Inf has always been something you sat on for the right occasion, and now it's more a part of your regular skill usage.
-More FC's/IB's are always nice. You can actually self-heal pretty well with IR+IB, and this comes in handy in some situations (healer kidnapped in O5S, tanking tiger in Byakko).
-IR's auto-crit feature works on Equilibrium. This is something I don't recall anyone guessing would happen, and it's a nice touch. Add's a bit of defensive quality to IR alongside the direct critting IB's.
-Watching everything line up perfectly and doing 8 FC's in a row has a tendency to make me giggle.

Cons:
-Dat Skill Speed requirement. At 1139 (where I was immediately post-patch) it was possible, but very tight, for me to hit 5x FC in a single IR. I had to wait till the very last moment (counting ani lock) on my GCD before hitting IR and then I needed to count on having great ping and full melee uptime to ensure I landed all 5 FC's. At 1477 (current SkS) the tightness of things has relaxed a bit, but it's still possible to miss that 5th FC if you don't time our oGCd's just right.
-Missing that 5th FC sucks. You really do feel it, especially in regards to Infuriate CD reduction.
-More FC direct crits is cool, but I do miss the odd 27k+ Dcrit I would get. This is ultimately just an e-peen thing, since overall, as long as you hit 5 in the window, you're doing more damage in total.
-Even more of our damage has been shifted to FC usage. AA's are still a solid 18-20% of our damage, but those got cut back with the loss of Berserk and the nerf to SE.
-We're dealing less overall potency on every move outside of IR than we were before. The IR window is now even more important than it was before. This is mitigated somewhat by the ease of setting up for your IR window (just refresh SE).
-This last one is more of a personal con, but the facerolly nature of the class is pretty apparent. Yes, it's true that 4.1 WAR dps rotation was pretty strict and complex in what it required, but it felt really good when you pulled it off. Now? It doesn't feel near as good. Yeah, I giggle when I hit 7-8 FC's in a row, and it's pretty cool being able to survive basically solo against most attacks with IB spam, and the use of IR with Equilibrium is a nice unexpected bit of decision-making added to the mix....but it just doesn't feel the same. I'm going to miss 4.1 WAR rotation.

Overall though? I gotta say, I like it. Yes, it's more facerolly, but if that means more people can get into it and do a good job then hey, who am I to argue. We still have loads of utility as a tank, and as long as we have the SkS to guarantee 5 FC's in a single IR, then we're up in DPS overall. I just wish you didn't need so damn much of the stuff. I don't think I'll be feeling comfy until I'm north of 1600 SkS.

That’s sad that you need to much sks on your ping cuz I can do it with 900-1000 sks comfortably.

4.2 war is definitely stronger and the rotation still has decent complexity to maximize the infuriates trait. It’s definitely less setup but the gauge management is a lot more difficult.

The current content is extremely good for WAR. O5S or ByakkoEX really make War burst and overall mitigation/toolkit shine.
If you look at war log, they are significantly higher than PLD/DRK (who are pretty even) and that’s due to the fight really being burst focused.

So 100% no chance to get a 6th FC right? My friend is saying buffs can help push it

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Originally Posted by kamenkuro

So 100% no chance to get a 6th FC right? My friend is saying buffs can help push it

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You would be looking at a sub 2 second GCD, which (I'm not certain) but I don't think is possible right now without some pretty wasteful astro buffs. Really low GCD and then an enhanced arrow, and maybe the scholar fairy buff as well, all for 1 hit. The fairy buff you might get at the start, but you would need to give up a spread balance for an enhanced arrow in the beginning to gain 1 hit. I'm pretty sure the extra 5% would out weigh that extra Fell cleave.

All righty. I got my taste of the new content, and the new way of things for Warriors, and I have to say: Yes, it's brain dead easy, but man, it's actually really fun! I like this new smasher playstyle. It's like the opposite of what happened to Dark Knights: They became simpler but less effective, we became simpler but more effective. It's true that my average skill level is exposed by how much I've improved with the new system (sigh), but good Lord, those auto-crits are the bee's knees. Pressing inner release makes me feel like a detonated warhead. Good times.

I actually enjoy going Ungabunga with Warrior aswell, don't miss the thinking part one bit, it plays more like the HW Warrior which I liked now. I hated the 4.0-4.1 Warrior. :|
It wasn't "hard" per se but more bothersome imo.
I'll go for the 2.38 sec GCD with 1116~ skill speed feels pretty comfy but I can hit 5 FCs with 2.43 just fine.

It's simpler but you now feel like a Berserker. Simple and effective. And your rage mode feels like a rage mode instead of a flat boost. You aren't worrying about party buffs, knockbacks, draw in's etc.

All you care about is HOW HARD CAN I HIT THIS GUY WITH MAH AXE!? RAAWWWR!

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

That’s sad that you need to much sks on your ping cuz I can do it with 900-1000 sks comfortably.

4.2 war is definitely stronger and the rotation still has decent complexity to maximize the infuriates trait. It’s definitely less setup but the gauge management is a lot more difficult.

The current content is extremely good for WAR. O5S or ByakkoEX really make War burst and overall mitigation/toolkit shine.
If you look at war log, they are significantly higher than PLD/DRK (who are pretty even) and that’s due to the fight really being burst focused.

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I have seen multiple posts describing great trouble hitting it without really absurd SS levels. I think a lot of people don't quite get that you delay using the action until your GCD is about to come up instead of spamming it after your previous action. I did it with my old 4.1 build which had like 750-800ish SS easily. Sure you may have some ping but if you need well over 1k to do it, you aren't doing it right. I'm stuck with 1200 now thanks to byakko's axe, 2 of the crafted accs having SS on them, and reorganizing my gear for crit brought some SS with it, but you really don't need anywhere near that value.

Ungabunga is fun and all, but I know that I will grow tired of it in short order. The older version was more interesting to optimize in fights. It felt more rewarding when you executed a perfect round, or when you adapted something on the fly to still make it work. As the months of raiding start to drag later in the season I'm really going to miss that extra satisfaction from mastering those fights and being rewarded for it. Big numbers are fun, but ultimately hollow when they aren't the result of playing well.

I think that while the skill floor was raised hard, the ceiling was not too affected, there are some tricks and optimizations the new WAR have that take at least some skill like always doing FC during 90 or 100 rage, using Defiance + Unchained for a little dps gain with Upheaval, not sitting on unused Infuriate and also lining up your pseudo burst phase with Trick Attack, it may not require as much skill as 4.1 but I don't think it is as braindead as people say, the biggest problem tho (if it is even a problem) is that all those tricks and optimizations give so little dps that you can ungabunga and still be very close someone who is playing optimally.

However I really think WAR is overpowered right now and there will be unfortunate nerfs on our future, we have the biggest burst, the biggest dps and the strongest tank stance in the game, seriously tanking in tank stance is not recommended, but if you just try to do that you will see that we are basically unkillable, learning a fight with Defiance Warrior basically means it is one less person for the healers to worry about (okay a little exagerated but not too much).

I'm gonna be that person and say:

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WAR changes? War never changes.

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OK, I'll see myself out.

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Originally Posted by Lina_Slayer

I think that while the skill floor was raised hard, the ceiling was not too affected, there are some tricks and optimizations the new WAR have that take at least some skill like always doing FC during 90 or 100 rage, using Defiance + Unchained for a little dps gain with Upheaval, not sitting on unused Infuriate and also lining up your pseudo burst phase with Trick Attack, it may not require as much skill as 4.1 but I don't think it is as braindead as people say, the biggest problem tho (if it is even a problem) is that all those tricks and optimizations give so little dps that you can ungabunga and still be very close someone who is playing optimally.

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This is what Dark Knight dps currently struggles with, and has been since 4.0. I don't think it is brain dead easy either, but it is worth peanuts compared to a real burst.




If people reading this have a moment please go like this post to try and get some dark knight attention from the developers during the live letter.

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Originally Posted by Ash_

The 4.2 changes to Dark Knight were nice, but didn't go anywhere far enough to address the core issues of the class. In terms of DPS, mitigation and utility we now feel farther behind PLD and WAR than ever before. And ever since the 4.0 changes DRK's lost a lot of their identity with previous class specific skills such as reprisal and low blow becoming role actions, losing Shadowskin, and an overall dramatic increase to clunkiness in terms of feel due to having to use dark arts, skill, dark arts, skill, etc.

As DRK's we feel like we've been left in dark place and forgotten about. Are there any plans to overhaul or rework the class?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4564656