SE, please consider giving giving DRK a group defence cooldown

I've been playing more WAR recently, and Shake it Off is basically ultra-useful. Paladin also has its equivalents.

DRK is the only tank missing this, which in raids feels like it is missing a really important piece of kit.

Maybe delete Dark Mind, replace it with Shadow Skin, then Dark Arts + Shadow Skin makes it affect the group.

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Originally Posted by Eyvhokan

Maybe delete Dark Mind, replace it with Shadow Skin.

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I thought we needed more mitigation, not less of it.
No

Technically, DRK needs both. The mitigation they have doesn't cut it, and they lack a group support skill (TBN doesn't support a group, it supports a part of the group).

With all DRKs deficiencies, raid mitigation is an eye glaring, but putting it behind a DA is continuing part of the problem with the class. DA is our damage button, TBN for personal mitigation or single user shield, now you'll be throwing in raid mitigation.. ..too much on MP imo. I agree Dark Mind could do with a do-over though, it hasn't aged well. But i think that should include getting rid of the DA effect all together.

If DRK could get a raid mitigation, it should be cost-free ..(its late)

Rather than delete Dark Mind totally, how about this:

Shadow Skin goes back in, cooldown -> 60s.

Dark Mind becomes a passive -5 to 10% magic damage that's always on.

I agree dark knight needs something. I do not agree whatever that the utility is, that it should have a mana cost, as the others do not have one. Personally I don’t even want a shield, a hp/mp refresh on sole survivor could be more than enough.

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Originally Posted by Eyvhokan

I've been playing more WAR recently, and Shake it Off is basically ultra-useful. Paladin also has its equivalents.

DRK is the only tank missing this, which in raids feels like it is missing a really important piece of kit.

Maybe delete Dark Mind, replace it with Shadow Skin, then Dark Arts + Shadow Skin makes it affect the group.

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I just hope you people are satisfied with this raid mitigation you ask for when it drains a ton of resources from DRK and it's less effective than any of the other two tanks offer.

Dark knight needs a big buff to either healing, mitigation or utility.
Right now it is the weakest in defense, healing, utility and second or third in DPS depending on individual.
WAR gets higher DPS, defense, healing and utility.
PLD gets much higher defense and utility.
DRK gets ??? Nothing that these two do not do better.
If WAR is going to be the high DPS tank that is fine but then why do they get more defense, utility and healing then DRK????
If PLD is the ultimate defense and utility then why do they get the same or better DPS as DRK?
It's broken and the 4.2 buffs did NOTHING to fix the issue.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

I just hope you people are satisfied with this raid mitigation you ask for when it drains a ton of resources from DRK and it's less effective than any of the other two tanks offer.

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So? Right now we are last in EVERY category.
You just wana stay like this?
The class that it hurts your group to bring?
That just by changing classes you become massively more useful?

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

I just hope you people are satisfied with this raid mitigation you ask for when it drains a ton of resources from DRK and it's less effective than any of the other two tanks offer.

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I'm not satisfied, but I would rather address different points like overall damage separately.

15% on the group is quite strong, it was meant to be similar to passage of arms where the PLD loses damage by doing nothing.

I am well aware there's a damage gap and it isn't an amazing free ability but at least it's something and is powerful.

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Here is another:

The Blackest Night: As is, but also grants an additional 10% of your HP shield to party members within 15y of the target

Raidwide mitigation would be great. Though, instead of a shield buff like Shake It Off, couldn't we make the enemy have a major debuff from some kind of action on the enemy? Example, adding a major damage down debuff for a short duration (5 seconds?) when a DRK uses Bloodspiller. To be honest, I don't know if adding such a debuff to Bloodspiller would kill their DPS... since some DRKs may hold on using Bloodspiller until they need to use the debuff.

Dark Passenger seems like a pretty good candidate to get a rework and have a damage down debuff effect added to it.

Taken from a previous thread.

Dark Passenger – Lvl.40 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 60s – Cost: 2400MP – Range: 10y – Radius: 10y
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 150 to all enemies in a straight line before you.
Additional Effect: Lowers the damage dealt by 10% for all enemies hit for a duration of 10s.
Can only be executed when under the effect of Darkside.
Dark Arts effect and Blind effect removed. Recast changed from 30s to 60s. Potency increased from 100 to 150. Additional effect of 10% reduced damage dealt by enemies hit added.

Basically it could act like a low-end defensive cooldown in mob packs or a party-wide defensive in boss fights.

EDIT:
The above was taken from an older more comprehensive DRK rework thread I made a while back.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...od-Dark-Knight

I think it'd be interesting if Dark Knight's had a group wide recovery option instead of another shield / DR layer.

Something like:

"Opposite-of-Sole Survivors"
Effect: Inflicts the enemy with draining magic for 15s. Allies attacking this enemy gain 50% of the damage they deal as health, up to 50% total of their maximum health.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Dark Passenger seems like a pretty good candidate to get a rework and have a damage down debuff effect added to it.

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This is one of the possible changes I most strongly support, practical for SE to add quickly and would be a good step in the right direction.

Possible sole survivor rework.

Grants everyone within range the 'sole survivor' status. For the next 10 seconds, 15% of most damage they inflict is compiled, then returned at the end of the effects duration in the form of a protective barrier.

Advantages: Big dps rewarded with big shields, feels thematically pretty fitting to me.
Disadvantages: Could be a bit awkward to use to full effectiveness sometimes, healers probably won't benefit a great deal.

At least it's not a copy/paste of divine veil though, or a copy/paste of divine veil where the only major difference is we have to spend MP on it and PLD doesn't :p.

I think the protective barrier is now old and DRK should have a unique distinguishing difference. You could have TBN when broken heals the raid for X%. Let's not throw another raid barrier just because that's what PLD and War have. I feel DRK is all about stealing life from enemies and having a raid type heal would retain that identity. Whether it is attached to sole survivor, TBN, or something else.

I personally feel TBN would be the best thing with Dark Passenger cost no mana on a 15-30 sec cooldown and Sole Survivor granting the effect on timeout or death.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Dark Passenger seems like a pretty good candidate to get a rework and have a damage down debuff effect added to it.

Taken from a previous thread.

Dark Passenger – Lvl.40 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 60s – Cost: 2400MP – Range: 10y – Radius: 10y
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 150 to all enemies in a straight line before you.
Additional Effect: Lowers the damage dealt by 10% for all enemies hit for a duration of 10s.
Can only be executed when under the effect of Darkside.
Dark Arts effect and Blind effect removed. Recast changed from 30s to 60s. Potency increased from 100 to 150. Additional effect of 10% reduced damage dealt by enemies hit added.

Basically it could act like a low-end defensive cooldown in mob packs or a party-wide defensive in boss fights.

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This could be a useful skill for DRK and bring back the use of DP

DRK needs something that is it's own.

Personally I would remove blood price and blood weapon would work under grit (re balanced for fairness)

Blood price should be a trait that gives DRK mana for every hit they take. Let DRK be the tank that can dish out their damage while in their tanking stance, not forcing them to choose between them.

Not only would allowing them to dish out damage in their tanking stance be interesting...it'd make for one hell of a flexible tank. They wouldn't have the pure defense of a PLD yes, or the damage of a warrior, but they wouldn't need to sacrifice their durability for their damage thus making them a tank that'd make their foes pay for every hit.

as for dark passenger I'd personally like to see it reworked or just removed at this point. I'm not a big fan of a ton of skills in MMO's, I'd rather have 10 impactful skills then 20 mediocre ones.

The easiest solution is just to take Reprisal off of the role action list and give it to DRK. Then adjust the recasts of Reprisal, SiO, and PoA appropriately. Three different solutions, three different tanks.

in Lore point of view DRK shuld not have party shield buff.
By lore PLD is knight who honor come from protecting weak. / utilty defence and shielding /
By lore WAR is someone who submit into natural instinct of rage and adrenaline making u single mind pull oponent down before it can do enything / DPS and resistance by rage /
By lore DRK has belef in Darkness and do not belef all good deeds are met whit ones instead drk will belef Evil is met whit evil. / self sustain because lack of belef in coporation and curseing weakening enemis whit diffrent kind of mindset weakness debuffs /

in that case Dark would need aura of retrepution or somthing like that weakens enemy dmg because they lose will in they strenghts sad thing is that SE work oposit way of pressing all tanks under same template slowly.
123 rotation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Dark Passenger seems like a pretty good candidate to get a rework and have a damage down debuff effect added to it.

Taken from a previous thread.

Dark Passenger – Lvl.40 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 60s – Cost: 2400MP – Range: 10y – Radius: 10y
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 150 to all enemies in a straight line before you.
Additional Effect: Lowers the damage dealt by 10% for all enemies hit for a duration of 10s.
Can only be executed when under the effect of Darkside.
Dark Arts effect and Blind effect removed. Recast changed from 30s to 60s. Potency increased from 100 to 150. Additional effect of 10% reduced damage dealt by enemies hit added.

Basically it could act like a low-end defensive cooldown in mob packs or a party-wide defensive in boss fights.

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The only problem I have with this change is it being a DPS gain compared to Dark Arts. The skill would be used on cooldown and wouldn't be saved for its utility, making a fluff mitigation as opposed to an actual cooldown for Dark Knight. In my thread I suggested an 80 DoT for 15s, with a DA effect of a 10% damage down debuff for 15s. This would add choice to the skill and is still a DPS gain even burning half your MP. (500 total potency for 2400MP is a net 360 gain) and 500 potency + 10% damage down debuff for 4800MP is still a net 220 gain)

A link to my thread is here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/f.../357739?page=1

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Originally Posted by kashi11

A link to my thread is here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/f.../357739?page=1

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So a 150 would be used on CD and would just be fluff mitigation since it would never be held for the mitigation purpose, but a 500 wouldn't?

I get what you're saying. It would still be used on cooldown, regardless but I think that defensively Dark Knight needs reworks to other skills as well I don't like the idea of a steady influx of small party wide mitigation. I do like the idea of making a decision of when to mitigate, and since the uptime is 50% as opposed to 17% there is a lot more flexibility in lining up with mechanics. So yes it would be used on cool down instead of being saved but if you know the fight you would know which Dark Passengers to DA. It would also be a lot stronger mitigation tool and could be used as much as a 50% uptime 10% damage down at a potential DPS gain depending on how fast you actually are gaining mana.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kashi11

snip

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That description was copied and pasted from a thread I created a while back on a more comprehensive DRK rework.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...od-Dark-Knight

In that rework additional effects were added to different abilities when used with DA, such as DAed Soul Eater having a 20 blood gauge gain versus the 10 of the regular version to provide more variety and decision making when choosing what to DA. The additional 10 potency over the standard +140 from DA was added to compensate for the additional effects.
Those changes were proposed a while ago and I haven't gone back to update them to account for changes to jobs introduced in later patches such as the 4.2 changes.

I am also unable to read your thread because the link you provided just takes you to the first page of the Tank forums.

EDIT:
I found the thread and to be truly honest, I find many of the proposed changes to be potentially overly powerful including the Dark Passenger one and some of them of them are perhaps a bit too similar to WAR's abilities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyth

The easiest solution is just to take Reprisal off of the role action list and give it to DRK. Then adjust the recasts of Reprisal, SiO, and PoA appropriately. Three different solutions, three different tanks.

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While I don't like the idea of taking away mitigation tools, at this rate it might be the only solution.

So what replaces it? Tempered Will? I sort of feel like that would be a stealth buff to WAR, but maybe I'm just paranoid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

While I don't like the idea of taking away mitigation tools, at this rate it might be the only solution.

So what replaces it? Tempered Will? I sort of feel like that would be a stealth buff to WAR, but maybe I'm just paranoid.

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To be fair, reprisal was originally taken from 3.xx DRK

I say give Reprisal back to DRK and make Foresight return as the last shared skill. Both would help DRK.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

While I don't like the idea of taking away mitigation tools, at this rate it might be the only solution.

So what replaces it? Tempered Will? I sort of feel like that would be a stealth buff to WAR, but maybe I'm just paranoid.

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I cast my vote for Cover, not TWill. WAR/DRK have gap closers, so it fits that if PLD can't close distances, they will refuse to move. Instead, give cover to all the tanks. WAR's want the focus of the boss, and DRK wants to protect the weak, so it works in-lore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InfiniDragon

I say give Reprisal back to DRK and make Foresight return as the last shared skill. Both would help DRK.

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This makes the most sense to me as well if SE wanted to go that route. Foresight helps all the tanks, but I believe this rounds dark knight's kit out nicely while not being overpowered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Dark Passenger seems like a pretty good candidate to get a rework and have a damage down debuff effect added to it.

Taken from a previous thread.

Dark Passenger – Lvl.40 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 60s – Cost: 2400MP – Range: 10y – Radius: 10y
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 150 to all enemies in a straight line before you.
Additional Effect: Lowers the damage dealt by 10% for all enemies hit for a duration of 10s.
Can only be executed when under the effect of Darkside.
Dark Arts effect and Blind effect removed. Recast changed from 30s to 60s. Potency increased from 100 to 150. Additional effect of 10% reduced damage dealt by enemies hit added.

Basically it could act like a low-end defensive cooldown in mob packs or a party-wide defensive in boss fights.

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Oh I love it, but the additional effect on an a skill that is a decent DPS gain doesn't fit with the design philosophy we've been seeing so far with DRK.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InfiniDragon

I say give Reprisal back to DRK and make Foresight return as the last shared skill. Both would help DRK.

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i miss foresight. and while it was originally a warrior skill - DRK suffers the most under the lost of it. WAR got rampart as replacement, PLD lost foresight too, but it didn't left such a big hole in his defensive kit.

old reprisal, foresight and shadowskin were the bread and butter of DRKs defensive kit - and only shadowskin is left (in the form of ramaprt). and while TBN is a great skill, it simply can't fill that hole alone.