How to make lillies useful

Holy
3 lillies - holy becomes instant cast and its potency increased by additional 50
(holy can easily be used more often)

Divine benison
3 lillies - increase healing by 15% when target affected by divine benison.
(Instead of applying db on tank during prepull, this function allows white mage to place 3 lillies db on tank who is at the verge of dying to top them up quickly.

Plenary indulgence
For the love of god, remove confession and replace them with lillies. Easy fix.

"Plenary indulgence
For the love of god, remove confession and replace them with lillies. Easy fix."

So how plenary indulgence potency will work is there's no confession stack anymore ?

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

"Plenary indulgence
For the love of god, remove confession and replace them with lillies. Easy fix."

So how plenary indulgence potency will work is there's no confession stack anymore ?

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Like either 1 stack of lily , 2 or 3. So just rename confession to Lillies

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Originally Posted by LachleinStratos

Divine benison
3 lillies - increase healing by 15% when target affected by divine benison.
(Instead of applying db on tank during prepull, this function allows white mage to place 3 lillies db on tank who is at the verge of dying to top them up quickly.

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I think that another tool for quick topping the tank on the verge of dying isn't needed. Benediction is there for that. Just bene, DB and and regens and he's ready to go.

Honestly what would holy do for us outside of dungeons? DB healing I don't know, P1 is just boring I don't even know what I would want from it.

Lilies in its current form is useless with how fights are designed in this game since cooldowns are basically set in stone.

I would much rather see them make lilies something that is desirable like some form of unique utility. After the healing requirement which all 3 healers will always meet we offer nothing major to the party.

We also lose in Personal Dps to sch on boss fights thanks to all the ogcd healing they have. Both Sch and Astro can ogcd for Aetherflow and Cards. We have zero ways of generating useless lilies outside of gcds. Our rescources is also used on our first cooldown regardless if we want to or not, While both Astro and Sch can more freely use and hold theirs..

If someone brings up but Whm in dungeon. That is not what classes should be balanced around they should be balanced around boss fights.

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

If someone brings up but Whm in dungeon. That is not what classes should be balanced around they should be balanced around boss fights.

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It's ironic that I actually get very good use out of Lilies as they are in dungeons :o

Unless sigmascape has a lot more tank healing, chances are my Lily gauge is just going to get shoo'd off to a dark corner of my screen come raid time though.

@OP

IMHO You're missing the issue here. The benefits of Lilies are actually reasonably ok. The problem here is that you stop getting enough to make any kind of an impact the moment you've learned an encounter and start optimising things. I pretty much gave up on DB in O4S because I just couldn't guarantee I'd have Lilies or even any way to generate one. That's one horrible bit of design if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

It's ironic that I actually get very good use out of Lilies as they are in dungeons :o

Unless sigmascape has a lot more tank healing, chances are my Lily gauge is just going to get shoo'd off to a dark corner of my screen come raid time though.

@OP

IMHO You're missing the issue here. The benefits of Lilies are actually reasonably ok. The problem here is that you stop getting enough to make any kind of an impact the moment you've learned an encounter and start optimising things. I pretty much gave up on DB in O4S because I just couldn't guarantee I'd have Lilies or even any way to generate one. That's one horrible bit of design if you ask me.

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One of my biggest complaints with lilies is the fact it is extremely limited since if you use a cooldown it is gone you can't just hold it. With Astro and Sch you can more freely hold/use onto Aetherflow stacks and Cards.

Aye, I built a kind of gameplan for my dungeon dpsing in a bid to try and funnel as many lilies as I could towards Assize. It's just not possible to do the same in raids for the most part :(

In keeping their general function the same, but tweaking how they work, I acknowledge I'm making some assumptions about what can be done.

So, casting cure/2 gives you a heal stack, get to 3 heal stacks and damage something to eat your stacks and knock a couple seconds off the CD of all your lily modifiable skills that are currently recharging.
Casting stone gives you a damage stack, get to 3 damage stacks and throw out a heal to eat your damage stacks and do the same thing.

Gives incentive to heal, do damage , and use your off global abilities frequently. Also stops that "I could sanctuary, but assize is just about back and I'd rather use the lilies on it" feeling. Was thinking that which spells would eat stacks would be a more generous list than what generates them basically any healing/damage spell would eat stacks, but only the ST cast time spells would build them.

you take one lily and put on hair, then you will look qt

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Originally Posted by Mirch

you take one lily and put on hair, then you will look qt

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That would be cute. =3

Another option to add more utility, how about a new trait to consume lilies with Divine Benison e.g:

Offer Lily:
- First Divine Benison cast is free. Cooldown start.
- Within 10 secs after casting Divine Benison first time: Choose. Consume 1 lily to stack existing Divine Benison adding 5 seconds and 2.5% health pool OR grant divine benison to party member not protected by Divine Benison. Adds 5 seconds to cooldown of Divine Benison.
- Within 15 secs after casting Divine Benison first time: Choose. Consume 2 lilies to stack existing Divine Benison adding 5.5 soconds and 2.5% health pool OR grant Divine Benison to party member not protected by Divine Benison. Adds 5 seconds to cooldown of Divine Benison.
- Within 20 secs after casting Divine Benison first time: Choose. Consume 3 lilies to stack existing Divine Benison adding 6 seconds and 2.5% health pool OR grant Divine Benison to party member not protected by Divine Benison. Adds 5 seconds to cooldown of Divine Benison (DB cannot be cast again before cooldown ends).

@manamoppet: DB is usually gone within 1 attack. It doesn't generally last longer than like 5 seconds, so using lilies to stack more duration+durability onto an existing DB after 10 to 20 seconds is a bit useless. I understand what you are getting at, but those time limits you mentioned are far too long.

They could simply double the damage tank take from AA, this would result in us having to actually heal them which would make Lili generation a none issue

Lilies: Delete them from the game.
Plenary Indulgence: Replace with a 300 potency (or even 200) oGCD AoE heal.
Basically I would like to see both of these completely replaced. WHM plays fine as a whole, but there two parts add almost nothing. This is especially vexing because Plenary Indulgence is the capstone level 70 skill.

The big problem with these two skills is that they cost you GCDs. In order to get a max rank plenary out you need to cast 3 AoE heals in quick succession. Most content never requires you to AoE heal in such a short time frame (more than once in 10 seconds), and the few fights that do are already covered by the fact that you will have a co-healer with you. Both the other healing classes have high potency oGCD heals on short cooldowns, and WHM itself has Assize already. Imagine, if you please, using Cure 3 three GCDs in a row, together with Assize and Indomitability, and decide what point there would be to still throwing a Plenary Indulgence on top of that.

Casting a Cure or Cure 2 in order to get a lily is basically worthless. If I have my off global heals available I'm going to be using those to cover as much as possible, I don't have time to spend gathering lilies and wasting GCDs I could be using for damage spells. Especially since the cooldown decrease is tiny. I need the return from three lilies to be at least worth the 750+ potency of damage I lose over that time period, or it will continue to be a forgettable trait.

As far as Divine Benison goes, it is really strong now and doesn't need any buffs. I am pretty sure it would have had a recast time of at least 1 minute if it wasn't for the lily requirement. As it is at the moment I get about as much mitigation from Divine Benison as I do healing with Tetragrammaton, using both more or less on cooldown.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

"Plenary indulgence
For the love of god, remove confession and replace them with lillies. Easy fix."

So how plenary indulgence potency will work is there's no confession stack anymore ?

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During os5(phantom train) i found confession stacks useful since they are more of a buff on people who need to run away from me out of aoe healing range so i can still hit them with my confesssion stack on them when running to the front of train after train ram move>acid rain shortly after. Everyone would be running so the initial swiftcast+med 2 would get a confession on everyone then i would hit plenary and continue to heal people who are out of range or spread all over. Also good for if your doing mechanics like ghost tethers and placing lights for ghosts and you still got a stack on someone is out of range cure 3+plenary on tank group.

Open lid of trash can
Put lily mechanic inside
Close lid of trash can

I don't really have a problem with what Lillies currently provide, the reduced recast times for abilities is fine. However, WHM abilities getting their recast times reduced isn't that vital, at least in my experience. But there could be more done to make them appealing to get.

For example: Instead of Lillies effecting only the recast time of abilities, it would be interesting to have them also give a Spell Speed boost per Lilly; sort of like the MNK Greased Lightning effect for WHM. Maybe a 5% Spell Speed boost per Lily? Something like that would be interesting, at least for me.

The other issue I have with Lillies is how we acquire them, solely from the use of Cure and Cure II on a damaged ally. When you have Regen ticking and from multiple sources, sometimes you just don't need to cast any Cure spells and therefor you're unlikely to gain anything from the Lily mechanic during this time. As WHM I find myself using Regen and Medica II(Mainly in Dungeons) to heal while I'm DPSing. I'd love it if Lillies were also able to "proc" on Regen and Medica II ticks. The chance to get them would have to be low though, around 5%? Maybe less, since they do tick for a while.

The last thing I'd like to quickly poke at is the Confession buff we get from our AoE healing spells. I find that it's a little too short of a duration most of the time to stack even twice between whatever incoming AoE damage. In some situations it's a useful boost, but I'd like to be able to use it with at least 2 stacks more often. Right now it's just a little bit of bonus healing in my eyes and if I ever want a real benefit from it, it makes me sometimes want to AoE heal when I don't need to, just to keep the buff active and I try to avoid that silly urge.

Have fun, thanks for reading! ^^

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Originally Posted by number473

Lilies: Delete them from the game.
Plenary Indulgence: Replace with a 300 potency (or even 200) oGCD AoE heal.
Basically I would like to see both of these completely replaced. WHM plays fine as a whole, but there two parts add almost nothing. This is especially vexing because Plenary Indulgence is the capstone level 70 skill.

The big problem with these two skills is that they cost you GCDs. In order to get a max rank plenary out you need to cast 3 AoE heals in quick succession. Most content never requires you to AoE heal in such a short time frame (more than once in 10 seconds), and the few fights that do are already covered by the fact that you will have a co-healer with you. Both the other healing classes have high potency oGCD heals on short cooldowns, and WHM itself has Assize already. Imagine, if you please, using Cure 3 three GCDs in a row, together with Assize and Indomitability, and decide what point there would be to still throwing a Plenary Indulgence on top of that.

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The one thing I will say - and I hate to come off like "that player", so apologies in advance - is that Plenary DOES actually see some use in some of the higher ends of raiding content. In O4S in particular our WHM got a ton of value out of it, and I can think of a few areas right now dealing with Kefka/God Kefka where you might stack heals like that. It's not entirely useless, and hell, in some particularly bad groups in Rabanastre you could also use it to get a clutch heal off (even at just 150 potency, the lowest possible value) on someone who ran in the opposite direction of you when they needed healing.

For example, how often do you predict an Astrologian will get maximum value out of Lightspeed except in fairly niche situations? Here's how I use it currently: I rip it before an Ascend if I don't have Swiftcast up, pretty much just to save mana, or if there's double raises that need to go out (Lightspeed, Swift the first, hardcast the second). No one needs raising? Okay, I rip it on a random Aspected Helios cast then immediately click it off because odds are I'm going back to DPSing and Lightspeed actually lowers my damage output. In a few SUPER rare scenarios, like O4S Almagest (ironically, the same case for WHM and Plenary) I'll rip it to spam-cast some AOE heals to power us through the dot, or during periods of high movement to make my positioning slightly easier but for most general raids I'm using it just to lower the mana cost of a single ability. Its primary boon of use basically increases the worse your party is...does that mean Lightspeed should be deleted/removed/replaced with something completely different? Or do we accept that some abilities will just be relatively niche in their use and that outside of the odd QoL (Confessions definitely need to last longer than 10 seconds on a target, oof) they're fine the way they are?

I mean, I'll be honest, Sleeve Draw as the Astrologian capstone ability doesn't feel that great either, and Minor Arcana is basically a consolation prize for an unavoidable crap RNG gimmick that we have built into our kit. With XIV's current feast-or-famine healing design when it comes to cooldowns and designs there's not really much else they can do or add in terms of abilities, IMO. I feel like we'll really see this crunch when 5.0 comes out - and I wouldn't be surprised to see every class only get 1 new ability altogether just to try to minimize how hard it is to add things to our current healers that actually feels "new".