Dear PLDs

Would you please STOP SPAMMING CLEMENCY? Especially when you (or any party member) have more than 75% of your HP.

Thank you.

Your healers.

Do people do this? I have never encountered it

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Do people do this? I have never encountered it

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They do. It's annoying.

You're not paying for my sub!!!

Seruously, though, its a very rare occurence and half of the time PLD is actually right. When mass pulling, healer DPS CGD >> PLD GCD. So, spamming Clemency to keep themselves alive while healer DPS-es is a good thing to do.

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

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I'm going to have to at least partially agree, only thing a PLD can do during big pulls is to spam Total Eclipse, which is really TP intensive and rather underwhelming, so altering between that and Clemency is a good way to give the healer more chances to drop some hot deeps while conserving your TP.

As said, per GCD in a big pull total eclipse is 110 potency per mob and is the only AoE GCD move PLD has access to. Healers have stronger spammable AoE GCDs than this, WHM has Holy and aero 3, AST has gravity and even SCH has miasma 2 and baneable DoTs. If your PLD is using clemency, use that time to DPS.

In single target yes a PLD should rarely use clemency other than maybe to proc their divine veil or if the healer is busy/Dead.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Do people do this? I have never encountered it

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Happened to us the other night in raid, we grabbed a pld sub in pf and whenever he got below 50% hp he would clemency himself.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Do people do this? I have never encountered it

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They do.
A lot.
More than what people think.

Emergencies Clemency are fine, if it's to help because healers are both really low on mp, a lot of people die...
But Clemency when everything's fine... everytime their life is dropping by a small amount.

Yes, it is (really annoying).
I totally feel the same as the OP

And i'm talking about 8-man content right now.
Even if it happened to me in dungeon. That was annoying cause as a Scholar, Excog couldn't proc (they'll change that finally).

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They do.
A lot.
More than what people think.

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Dunno...
Between main and alt characters i've got 5 healer jobs at 70 and have seen Clemency spam maybe two times. Totally not worth the new topic. In PUG raids sometimes Clemency is a sad necessity to live through next mechanic - for example Neo's Double Attack after Charybdis if healers fail to top you off.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

They do.
A lot.
More than what people think.

Emergencies Clemency are fine, if it's to help because healers are both really low on mp, a lot of people die...
But Clemency when everything's fine... everytime their life is dropping by a small amount.

Yes, it is (really annoying).
I totally feel the same as the OP

And i'm talking about 8-man content right now.
Even if it happened to me in dungeon. That was annoying cause as a Scholar, Excog couldn't proc (they'll change that finally).

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Totally this. Like if I were in a pinch, I'd understand the clemency spamming. But no, you got those dudes spamming it again, and again, and again -_-

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

Dunno...
Between main and alt characters i've got 5 healer jobs at 70 and have seen Clemency spam maybe two times. Totally not worth the new topic. In PUG raids sometimes Clemency is a sad necessity to live through next mechanic - for example Neo's Double Attack after Charybdis if healers fail to top you off.

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It's worth the new topic. So that those who don't know Clemency spam is annoying and most of the time USELESS will know. I heal. You tank. If I have no MP (lol) then yes why not. If everything is okay? Just don't.

i see this several times too, but i never though its a bad habit of sort.

it does generate aggro right? unless its really minimal amount

Recently I had one PLD in Skalla who used clemency once he got ~50% or once mass pulled.

I used this opportunity to DPS a little more (SCH), through it bothered me at first. I still used my heals whenever I could cause I saw him dropping very fast once he used his CDs. Spaming Miasma II costed my whole mana pool tho.

I ended being best DPS in this whole run - yeah, typical rng DPS roles getting carried by tank+healer. I actually asked him if the reason he used clemency was so I could AoE more. Confirmed.

I liked this PLD!

Still... if a PLD uses it in boss fights, it would trigger me, too - exceptions are e.g. I am oom (too many rez, try keeping ppl alive who fail mechanics etc.) or I am dead myself...

OR I do more DPS than they do... tho, that would trigger me even more.

If I notice a healer can do more damage than I can do as a tank, any clemency I cast makes them able to dps more.

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It's worth the new topic. So that those who don't know Clemency spam is annoying and most of the time USELESS will know. I heal. You tank. If I have no MP (lol) then yes why not. If everything is okay? Just don't.

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Absolute majority of players who spam Clemency for the sake of it, will not read this. So, making another new topic about it as useful as another topic about DPSing in healer's subforum. I.e. useless. Also, obnoxious generalizing topic names are annoying.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

If I notice a healer can do more damage than I can do as a tank, any clemency I cast makes them able to dps more.

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Not when my regen/fairy/off gcds are keeping you alive without a single healer gcd.

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Originally Posted by popotaro

Would you please STOP SPAMMING CLEMENCY? Especially when you (or any party member) have more than 75% of your HP.

Thank you.

Your healers.

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Dear Healers;

While I will admit there are newbie Paladins out there please take into consideration the following;

While pulling if we do clemency is usually to grab scatter mobs and use it as enmity (most of the time Max healing potions do the trick as well ), if we use it otherwise is do to DMG predictions, have MP to spare and might as well use it , or really lack confidence in our healers do to run experience. Therefor thank you for your suggestion and we will take your suggestion to heart once you make a valid argument of why helping you keep us alive is bad for you as a healer. Sincerely yours , one of the few paladins that actually knows what he is doing.

P.S. On that note please stop spamming Regen during pulls it is annoying being that we have to resort to other means because you grab enmity before you do...hence clemency would be one.

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

Absolute majority of players who spam Clemency for the sake of it, will not read this. So, making another new topic about it as useful as another topic about DPSing in healer's subforum. I.e. useless. Also, obnoxious generalizing topic names are annoying.

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That is your opinion. The good thing about opinions is that, like arseholes, we all get to have one. Though I understand your point, I still felt the need to share that matter. You don't share my opinion? No worries, I get it. No reason to be condescending, though.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Dear Healers;

While I will admit there are newbie Paladins out there please take into consideration the following;

While pulling if we do clemency is usually to grab scatter mobs and use it as enmity (most of the time Max healing potions do the trick as well ), if we use it otherwise is do to DMG predictions, have MP to spare and might as well use it , or really lack confidence in our healers do to run experience. Therefor thank you for your suggestion and we will take your suggestion to heart once you make a valid argument of why helping you keep us alive is bad for you as a healer. Sincerely yours , one of the few paladins that actually knows what he is doing.

P.S. On that note please stop spamming Regen during pulls it is annoying being that we have to resort to other means because you grab enmity before you do...hence clemency would be one.

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Well I wasn't pointing out the clemency spam while mass-pulling. I was really pointing the useless spamming outside of sticky situations. And I agree with Regen during pull. It's just as bad.

I've never seen this, but I'm trying to imagine how I'd react if I did.

If it was for single target pulls, I'd probably wonder if they didn't trust me. I'd get over it and do some extra damage.
If it was for multiple target pulls, I'd welcome it because I always appreciate anything tanks do to help me out and I'd use the opportunity to pretend I'm a dps.

So I don't think I'd particularly mind clemency spam. It does seem a little weird but any healing I don't have to do is a time to help the party out with other things I can do.

PLDs resposne
"Dear healer, please then heal and not wait till our health drops to 10%, thank you".

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Originally Posted by popotaro

Well I wasn't pointing out the clemency spam while mass-pulling. I was really pointing the useless spamming outside of sticky situations. And I agree with Regen during pull. It's just as bad.

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Not sure if play tank, based on your classes I'm thinking that perhaps your misunderstanding something. Having one 31 and other two under 30 give a poor perspective of what we tanks go through. For us keeping enmity and staying alive take priority by any means possible. As someone who has experience as a healer, believe me I welcome a PLD that helps me heal. Easier on my MP and helps me focus on keep him alive while looking out for people who ignore mechanics or just simply think they know how to do your job. Now a days it seems common sense is a rare trait. At a very minimum if your going to suggest something from a PLD you should at a minimum have it leveled up to the point were you use clemency. No offense it just gets irritating hearing people complain about jobs that they have not fully leveled or have little understanding.

I’ve personally never seen this happen. I’m more tilted by paladins stopping to clemency themselves after pulls. Like just run and aggro things I’m well aware you aren’t at 100% and I have no intention of stopping to heal what a few server ticks will heal on its own.

But I can get why clemency spam gets annoying, particularly on scholar though that reason may go away soon. I have plenty of oGCDs to juggle tank hp and dealing damage, so why not join in the aoe fun on tank and burn down the mob faster. I firmly believe kill time is the best mitigation lol.

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Originally Posted by popotaro

Would you please STOP SPAMMING CLEMENCY? Especially when you (or any party member) have more than 75% of your HP.

Thank you.

Your healers.

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I never know when to use it anyways tbh.

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Originally Posted by Tegernako

I never know when to use it anyways tbh.

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In dungeons I’ve only found it helpful if you see your HP low, not moving, and your healer spamming you with heals. The extra clemency can buy time to get up a regen instead to deal with the extra damage/buy time till a cooldown comes up.

I find this happens if the tanks don't trust or feel comfortable with the healers. I have seen both sides where I'm the tank and the healer is not keeping me alive - i will use clemency to get me back up every time. (this is primarily for 4 man content in PUGs) clemency is there for a reason and if the healer is lagging, or for whatever reason letting my hp go below 20%, I'm casting. As healer, I have seen this and if the pld wants to constantly use clemency, i give him a regen and i dps.

At the end of the day, if casting clemency prevents the party from wiping i'll cast it all day long. I do see the OP's and others opinions and thought i'd offer mine.

Not worth the new topic? It's a forum/ messageboard , if not here, where?

Honestly, seeing this just makes me want to use clemency more.

Dear Tanks (yes all 3) -

If I'm your healer in Duty Finder, please use your CDs as you see best - we don't know each other and what we're capable of doing or not. To my static tanks - how low can you go?

Fondly,
Purple kitty

Hey. As a pld main, I tend to Clem myself when I see the healers dots getting ready to fall off. Lets them smash a few dps buttons and makes me feel better about not dying.

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Originally Posted by Seredeelfer

Dear Tanks (yes all 3) -

If I'm your healer in Duty Finder, please use your CDs as you see best - we don't know each other and what we're capable of doing or not. To my static tanks - how low can you go?

Fondly,
Purple kitty

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1 HP

:P

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Originally Posted by popotaro

Would you please STOP SPAMMING CLEMENCY? Especially when you (or any party member) have more than 75% of your HP.

Thank you.

Your healers.

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Hmm...Adjust?

As someone who has all 3 healers at max level, whenever I see a fellow healer get triggered this much over Clemency it makes me wonder if said healer has mental/emotional issues. All this complaining over a tank healing himself. Who really cares? Honestly, as a healer it gives me more chances to dps on my healers and not have worry as much.

As a fellow healer, I think you need to seriously consider another profession.

I don't trust most random DF healers in general when I do anything on PLD. I had a healer in expert once who let my HP drop to near death levels cause she was too busy spamming Holy to notice. Not even a Benedication or Tetra. So when I see my HP really low (mostly below 10k) I'll start healing myself.

Git Gud and do your job and I won't have to Clemency to keep myself alive while you tunnel vision dps or watch netflix.

P.S:

Dear healers,

Stop putting Regen on your tanks before they do mass pulls. It's annoying and not productive and you get aggro and mess up melee rotations cause the tank has to grab mobs off your ass.

Sincerly, a fellow healer and a PLD.

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

You're not paying for my sub!!!

Seruously, though, its a very rare occurence and half of the time PLD is actually right. When mass pulling, healer DPS CGD >> PLD GCD. So, spamming Clemency to keep themselves alive while healer DPS-es is a good thing to do.

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When my exogitation falls off instead of being used because the pld is standing there clemency-ing himself, he is 100% in the wrong. Just use your dumb spinny attack that ya'll begged for so much and let me do my job. I don't need your help to dps and heal.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

When my exogitation falls off instead of being used because the pld is standing there clemency-ing himself, he is 100% in the wrong. Just use your dumb spinny attack that ya'll begged for so much and let me do my job. I don't need your help to dps and heal.

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Still kinda don't pay his/her sub. Just saiyan. If the PLD is not really confident in you to keep them alive, then he/she has every right to use Clemency.

Fyi, our "dumb spinny attack" is called "Total Eclipse". Level PLD and you'd know the skill's name. *shrugs*

/2 cents

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

When my exogitation falls off instead of being used because the pld is standing there clemency-ing himself, he is 100% in the wrong. Just use your dumb spinny attack that ya'll begged for so much and let me do my job. I don't need your help to dps and heal.

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So when a healer thinks he can heal and can't even keep us alive yes we will be more than happy to spin around and pretend it's not the healers fault....Or perhaps when they do regen or actions during a pull...yeah people don't pay other peoples subscription either way just because you call your self a healer doesn't mean you can heal. Same for a tank, using clemency is a tool for us to survive when we can tell some healers are incompetent ( not all just most ) and we have really only one rule in our mind...stay alive.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Still kinda don't pay his/her sub. Just saiyan. If the PLD is not really confident in you to keep them alive, then he/she has every right to use Clemency.

Fyi, our "dumb spinny attack" is called "Total Eclipse". Level PLD and you'd know the skill's name. *shrugs*

/2 cents

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My PLD's at 70, my dear. It will remain dumb spinny attack however every time I refer to it, regardless.

And, amazingly enough, if you don't have confidence in your healer, healing yourself is not going to fix the problem. My healing cooldowns are there for a reason. You wasting a GCD healing yourself for a tankbuster, I've been prepared for for the past 45 seconds is not clearing content faster.

Nor is you killing the DRK during Akh Morn because you wanting to help heal wasted his Walking Dead. (Note: this happened. My friend on DRK was less than pleased.)

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When my exogitation falls off instead of being used because the pld is standing there clemency-ing himself, he is 100% in the wrong. Just use your dumb spinny attack that ya'll begged for so much and let me do my job. I don't need your help to dps and heal.

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Dear sir (or madam), i definitely can see ExCog icon and will adjust accordingly. Besides, if you throw it on me on pull, it will be gone when i'll nearly out of TP and can't use my dumb spinny attack anymore. So, enjoy your big D DPS while i keep myself alive. Its a win-win.

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That is your opinion. The good thing about opinions is that, like arseholes, we all get to have one. Though I understand your point, I still felt the need to share that matter. You don't share my opinion? No worries, I get it. No reason to be condescending, though.

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Thing is, opinions - as you said - are like some private body parts. Everyone have one. Will you like it though if some stranger come to you and shove it in your face?

"Dear ____" threads will always be pointless because the people you want to reach out to most likely aren't reading it.

On topic, I've always considered gcds spent on clemency to be wasted gcds. Healers have countless tools to keep tanks up while producing lots of aoe dps on their own, and the idea that total eclipse isn't worth it is wrong. Every bit of dps helps contribute.

I use Clemency if the healers in my group have proven to be unreliable at topping people off and let me or someone else die despite having several seconds of time to get a heal off.

This thankfully doesn't happen that often.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

In dungeons I’ve only found it helpful if you see your HP low, not moving, and your healer spamming you with heals. The extra clemency can buy time to get up a regen instead to deal with the extra damage/buy time till a cooldown comes up.

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I like healing others though too.

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

I'm going to have to at least partially agree, only thing a PLD can do during big pulls is to spam Total Eclipse, which is really TP intensive and rather underwhelming, so altering between that and Clemency is a good way to give the healer more chances to drop some hot deeps while conserving your TP.

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This!

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

if we use it otherwise is do to DMG predictions

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And this!

Seriously. I don't really get why it annoys people so much to be honest. If you see the PLD healing themselves, let them. It's a skill they have, like your DPS spells. Use the MP you're saving for more DPS or heal the party or rez the DRG. I understand you might feel offended, but also bear in mind that said PLD doesn't know you. At all. He doesn't know if you can keep it up or not.

If it bothers you so much, inquiry the PLD and ask why they are doing it. I read one user who did that and the response was positive "so you can DPS".

My clemency rate goes up based on how inattentive the healer is. Perhaps there's a reason you keep encountering tanks that feel the need to use clemency so often?

My less snarky answer is that, since I play both classes, I have a feel for when the healer in the team isn't going to be able to heal all of us in a timely manner. Usually this is the result of someone else making a mistake, ie: DPS likes to dance around in AOE. Since I know the healer can't dual cast, I'll typically clemency an errant DPS because I know that most of the time the healer is going to pick me as his first priority when things go south.