Request for clarification from the GM team

http://puu.sh/z6406/cff3554762.jpg

Are Party Finder entries like this considered sufficient evidence to report for RMT activity?

I'm obviously no GM but I'm not sure it could be as it doesn't mention if it's being sold for gil or if it's being sold for real money. as far as I'm aware, there's not anything in the ToS preventing someone from asking you to pay x amount of gil for a raid clear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elamys

I'm obviously no GM but I'm not sure it could be as it doesn't mention if it's being sold for gil or if it's being sold for real money. as far as I'm aware, there's not anything in the ToS preventing someone from asking you to pay x amount of gil for a raid clear.

---

Gil cannot be transferred across servers.

But, yeah, they're smart enough to not give real money prices in game, and we already know GM policy is to not accept evidence that is not within the game. That's why I'd like official clarification.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Gil cannot be transferred across servers.

But, yeah, they're smart enough to not give real money prices in game, and we already know GM policy is to not accept evidence that is not within the game. That's why I'd like official clarification.

---

Especially when they demand discord only communication.

Of course it isn't. If you have to interpret or assume money is changing hands, it's not exactly hard evidence.

I wish it was but since GMs (and by extension SE) can get some seriously bad PR from banning players without basically catching them red-handed, I don't think it counts. I mean if you're making a cross-world PF to advertise and demand the deal (and price disclosure) to be made through a 3rd party service that's very damning circumstantial evidence. But they need actual proof to ban.

no that's not enough evidence. selling content for gil is not a violation of ToS. if they are selling content for real world money you'd need way more evidence and it would have been from in game evidence. anything happening in discord and the like cannot be used for proof.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrWho2010

no that's not enough evidence. selling content for gil is not a violation of ToS.

---

Cross-server advertisements without price disclosures in them USUALLY aren't looking for payment in gil. But you can't tell if it's actually against ToS or someone just not knowing how things work. Which is why they can't really be acted on by GMs.

Any suspicious activity is enough of a reason to report someone. As long as you do it in good faith then you'll never be reprimanded for it. Once reported the GMs can track and review the person's behavior and determine if a ban is appropriate. it's really not up to players to decide if something is ban worthy.

The poster above has it right. I'm sure the GMs can look into that player's actions in-game and take note of any odd cross-server join ups following that post. If that person is playing it safe enough, there may not be enough incriminating evidence, but you never know. If you feel their actions are a little too suspicious, it's not a bad idea to report. If action is taken, they wouldn't be able to tell you anyway.

real money or gil. it dosent matter. this pay us out and sit in the corner runs should be banned. its a sneak around the no bonus groups. they show up after a buyed clear and have no clue how the fight works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

The poster above has it right. I'm sure the GMs can look into that player's actions in-game and take note of any odd cross-server join ups following that post. If that person is playing it safe enough, there may not be enough incriminating evidence, but you never know. If you feel their actions are a little too suspicious, it's not a bad idea to report. If action is taken, they wouldn't be able to tell you anyway.

---

The problem is how many there are. Reporting them all would be rather spammy, and I don't want to waste my time any more than the GMs would want to waste theirs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EmmaVirgin

real money or gil. it dosent matter. this pay us out and sit in the corner runs should be banned. its a sneak around the no bonus groups. they show up after a buyed clear and have no clue how the fight works.

---

A lot of the time it isn't sit in the corner. You give them your login info, they play for you. Which itself is most definitely a TOS violation, but pragmatically impossible to prove.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrWho2010

no that's not enough evidence. selling content for gil is not a violation of ToS. if they are selling content for real world money you'd need way more evidence and it would have been from in game evidence. anything happening in discord and the like cannot be used for proof.

---

You have added absolutely nothing new nor of value to this topic. We know everything you have already said, but only GMs can say if it is sufficient to report and thus start an investigation, or not.

If runs are being sold cross server, there is absolutely no in game way to pay for it. But whether that basis is enough, that is the question. But not a question for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EmmaVirgin

real money or gil. it dosent matter. this pay us out and sit in the corner runs should be banned. its a sneak around the no bonus groups. they show up after a buyed clear and have no clue how the fight works.

---

Real money is rmt and bannable, agreed. There's nothing wrong with selling runs for gil though, and so long as gil is all that's trading hands its functionally no different to crafters selling wares or leve kits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

The problem is how many there are. Reporting them all would be rather spammy, and I don't want to waste my time any more than the GMs would want to waste theirs.

---

You asked if one example was a reportable offense. I answered that if the PF you posted looks fishy enough to you, the GMs can see deeper into it than we can, so there's no harm in reporting and letting them take care of it if they find more evidence on their end. Pretty sure neither one of us has an interest in policing the entire data center. If you don't care to report it then ignore it. If you do, then go ahead and report, but if it's the trend that's the issue, then reporting one person is only a drop in the bucket anyway tbh.

(Hope I didn't sound too harsh here or anything. :0 )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EmmaVirgin

real money or gil. it dosent matter. this pay us out and sit in the corner runs should be banned. its a sneak around the no bonus groups. they show up after a buyed clear and have no clue how the fight works.

---

Honestly, the sellers might be part of the problem, but they aren't exactly at the root of that problem. Those buyers would find their way into farm groups whether or not there's anyone around for them to pay. Accepting Gil for a service shouldn't be a bannable offense, otherwise it'd be a reportable offense to pay a crafter to make you a new glam or housing item. Accepting RL money for an in-game service, on the other hand, is blatant RMT.

Well that is dodgy requiring Discord to view prices, and I'm guessing the agreement you would make is also out of game.

https://scontent.fyyc4-1.fna.fbcdn.n...6b&oe=5AE96E2F

People have the right to use in game Gil for whatever they want. When I see these posts it makes me chuckle as they charge obscene amount of Gil for clears (I know as I actually paid in game Gil for a Thok as Thok clear back in the day) and if people have enough and want to pay, go nuts. Pay for a clear or pay for gear or pay for ERP or whatever suits your fancy. It’s an MMO. What I don’t get is how (players will remain nameless) players who have NO crafting or gathering classes maxed or even high level and have not one but TWO houses . Let people post for clear for Gill but put it in a newspaper portion of the game along with other lame things like Nep Nep AFK club or people looking for waifus. Leave party finder for relevant content and classified ads in a newspaper. There’s a post for adding a newspaper in game under Retainer category and I think it’s a great idea .

Since you can't prove that they are accepting real money, although very shady that they want to have communcations outside the game. I don't think you can report them for RMT activity even though we're all pretty certain that is the case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

You have added absolutely nothing new nor of value to this topic. We know everything you have already said, but only GMs can say if it is sufficient to report and thus start an investigation, or not.

---

GMs don't determine if something is reportable.
The player wishing to report determines if something is reportable.
The GM's then investigate and determine if the report merits action.
Use some common sense.
Or, don't be a snitch, and move on.

That being said - cross-server or not - the player could have a large FC with alts on other servers to collect gil payments.
The fact is we don't know - and we can't know - and GM approval is NOT required to report something.

That's how it works.
The player *suspects* something bad is happening.
The player reports it.
The GM's use their internal tools that they have available to conduct an investigation.
The GM's determine whether actionable.

Not sure if this has been posted about. I tried to search and came up empty.Every day there are numerous party finder ads for clearing of end game content. This is not new, whats new is that they are actually charging real money for this. Now that they have the datacenter to use as an advertisement for this they charge real money for those individuals, not on their server. These data center posts need to be bannable since the only way to pay for this is through real money. Just saying, we checked out one of them to see how they expected to be compensated and it was 400+ USD. This is a bit ridiculous and invites scamming of individuals. It needs to be investigated and stopped. What if someone actually paid this money and didn't get the clear. They have no way of reporting this without reporting themselves and could go unchecked. I would never pay real money for anything in this game other then what i get from the mog station, but im not everyone and its SE job to keep this kind of threat out.

These loopholes are the reasons why I favor a function of moving parties of the blacklisted people in the same or similar manner locked duties are. That meaning on the very end of the party finder list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deapee

Or, don't be a snitch, and move on.

---

Did you really just tell me "don't be a snitch" about RMT activity? Are you for real?

Yeah, I'm not going to report someone parsing so they can self improve. Botting, RMT, and so on are an entirely different league. IMO the people doing the latter very much deserve any ban they might get. Albeit the sad reality is it is unlikely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Snip.

---

You're putting words into my mouth here. I never said that, wasn't even trying to be rude to you. Maybe I completely misunderstood what you meant by your last post, but it read to me like that was the message you were trying to convey to me tbh. Not sure what your point with this thread is anymore. If you want to report them for possible rmt, report, and if you don't, then don't. No need to get into a circular argument with me when you've already said you didn't want to report them. If that is truly the case, then leave it be.

For reference, this is what I was attempting to address:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

The problem is how many there are. Reporting them all would be rather spammy, and I don't want to waste my time

---

And at that point, I was merely agreeing with you that there's little we can do on a personal level to ban every single example of this type of rmt that pops up in PF. And as I stated in my last reply, I initially thought you were asking about the specific PF entry you posted at the beginning of the thread.

Edit; I don't call names, and never set out to be rude or ugly to other people, that just isn't me. But looking back on the thread, you jumped through quite some hoop there to quote someone else's words and put my name on it whether that was intentional or not. And if it wasn't your intent, then I'll respect that and apologize, but it really had me confused for a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deapee

Use some common sense.
Or, don't be a snitch, and move on.

That being said - cross-server or not - the player could have a large FC with alts on other servers to collect gil payments.
The fact is we don't know - and we can't know - and GM approval is NOT required to report something.

---

The fact that there are no actual RMT sites posting in the data center makes it clear that they can certainly keep these kinds of advertisement out. There is nothing wrong with restricting end game clearing for payment to world party finder only and should be this way! I know for a fact that some of them do charge real money for players not on their server so finding excuses as to how they might have an alt account on your server is highly unlikely that they would accept payment this way. I would like some clarification from a GM on what SE really thinks about this matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

You're putting words into my mouth here.

---

I'm not quite sure how the misquote happened. Probably multiquote weirdness but I wasn't trying to respond to you anyways. So for that I apologize. Post fixed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I'm not quite sure how the misquote happened. Probably multiquote weirdness but I wasn't trying to respond to you anyways. So for that I apologize. Post fixed.

---

Np, I'm sorry I took offense to it. It happens sometimes. :)