Been gone a bit: is MCH still crippled by latency?

I observed back when playing XIV some months ago that MCH was literally crippled by latency because it meant you couldn't get the maximum number of attacks off during an overheat if you simply lived too far away from the servers. Others confirmed this as well.

Is this still the case or have they actually fixed that?

Still the same. But apparently there's nothing wrong with MCH, so working as intended? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes. Just like nearly all other DPS.

Honestly they could easily fix it.
They would increase the duration by 1 or 2 second and if that duration increase makes it too close from being able to weave a last gcd (creating a new standard) they could simply cap the number of gcd the debuff can take before detonating.
If I'm right under perfect ping and play, it's 6 gcd. They could increase the duration to 12sec and make it detonate in the 6th gcd.
You still have plenty of time to weave al' the ogcd.

What do pro machinist think? I just play the job casually so might have missed something

It's slightly more crippled by latency now.

It's definitely latency-dependent, but there are high-ping friendly alternative openers and rotations you can use that aren't -too- much worse than the most optimal but demanding ones. All the guides I've read have had them listed so they shouldn't be hard to find.

Ugh, so which DPS class ISN'T latency crippled? RDM? BRD?

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Ugh, so which DPS class ISN'T latency crippled? RDM? BRD?

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BLM and DRG are probably the least crippled by it. Every job is affected somehow though.
On the other side of the coin RDM MCH NIN and BRD are highly affected by it. Unless you're playing over 150ms you shouldn't stress much about it (except for MCH :v).

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Ugh, so which DPS class ISN'T latency crippled? RDM? BRD?

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RDM can't even dualcast consistently at over 180 ms. Bard also double-weaves constantly, and in ways in which the procs to be spent in that weave will often go to waste unless spent within that precise gap.

DRG at least has some 4 GCDs of double-weaves on the opener and a few scattered throughout between bursts, but at least these come at known timings and some of them can be delayed slightly if necessary. Warrior double-weaves infrequently but is painfully dependent upon even that single GCD gap instance thereof. Monk at any noticeable skill speed won't really allow you to double-weave, period, except during Riddle of Fire, so that's probably one of your best bets, alongside BLM.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

RDM can't even dualcast consistently at over 180 ms.

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Not entirely true. I play at 200ms and I can dualcast properly. The issue is that RDM relies on double weaves for a lot of things and the 1.5s GCD clip on themselves sometimes (same on MCH for Rapidfire).

RDM is affected by latency, but i wouldnt call it crippling.
The only time my GCD really suffers, is when Im working with a NIN, trying to get embolden off, usually resulting in triple weaving (aka clipping)
Of course If I pop it too early, then a lot is wasted, and if I pop it when its going to cause less clipping, then Im doing it late enough someone claims im being selfish with it.

Though double weaving easily cuts off at LEAST 0.1s off my GCD.
But it depends on the night.
And I wouldnt call it crippling.

Not being able between the enhanced melee combo without clipping is really bad. In my case Displacement also tends to clip.

I'd love it if they made Overheat have a 12 second duration to ensure that you can get six GCDs off even if there's some latency,

They could make MCH work on GCD counts instead of time based stuff.

Changing overheat to 11 sec would be more than enough. The main change I want is a way to forcefully overheat that isnt flamethrower, like the PVP version of hotshot (Gives 25 heat on execution). Combining the 11 seconds of overheat with the 25 heat generation from hotshot would make it a lot easier to hit the 6GCD threshold for wildfire without making a more optimized way of getting 7GCD wildfires.

With this change of course it would mean turning the current hotshot in to a trait which would make more sense since there isn't really anything to manage anymore. It also means that flamethrower would need an adjustment to give it an actual use, like make it actually useful in AoE instead of only at the last overheat second. Maybe giving flamethrower the same treatment as hotshot and take the pvp version for it as well, which would depend on the time the target gets hit for.

If SE does implement this, then I hope that they revert hypercharge to 5% to make up for the damage gain.

I logged in on forums just to make a new thread about MCH being way too crippled by latency because I'm just so miffed by it all by now, so I'm glad this thread was already here.

But yes, I'm playing at 180-200ms latency, and even budget openers are nigh impossible for me to pull off without ridiculous amounts of skill speed, and I really wish they did SOMETHING to make it playable for high ping players.

I suppose increasing the overheat duration would be one possible solution, or making Hot Shot just a way to increase heat without a damage buff (compensated by general potency increases or something). Gauss Barrel also should die in a fire and just turn into a Heat Gauge trait, which would work the same way as Gauss Barrel, but without having to re-attach it after every cool down period, that's just stupid busywork.

tl:dr, I -really- want to play MCH, but it's currently not a fun experience due to being so crippled by latency, and I desperately want to get that into the developers' attention.

I think I like MCH's PvP design better in general.

Flamethrower actually dealing good damage and being able to overheat immediately at the touch of a button both are changes I hope get applied to the class for PvE.

Being a pre-4.0 PvP MCH, I really dislike that Stun Gun - the only aoe stun in game - forces an Overheat. Sure, you generally use it when you're trying to burst down a target, so the OH damage increase helps, but if used defensively, I don't always want to Overheat. And it kills me to see MCHs use it as "the Overheat button".

Flamethrower's fine though, especially after the change to 5 sec double potency (adds up the same as before).

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Being a pre-4.0 PvP MCH, I really dislike that Stun Gun - the only aoe stun in game - forces an Overheat. Sure, you generally use it when you're trying to burst down a target, so the OH damage increase helps, but if used defensively, I don't always want to Overheat. And it kills me to see MCHs use it as "the Overheat button".

Flamethrower's fine though, especially after the change to 5 sec double potency (adds up the same as before).

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I'm not talking about the stun gun part though, just the 25 heat from hotshot. I can understand that SE isnt removing hotshot because of its uses in the quests and it would require a lot of changing. But the instant 25 heat from it sounds way better then the latency depending flamethrower.

EDIT: Thinking about it, it would also make MCH a bit more friendly for prog as well since you're not forced to wait for barrel stabilizer but it will still cost 2 GCDs.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

They could make MCH work on GCD counts instead of time based stuff.

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This!

Adjust wildfire to something similar like rapid fire, gcd based.

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Originally Posted by PuppytimusLeoroccanz

This!

Adjust wildfire to something similar like rapid fire, gcd based.

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I am personally going to need something done about Overheat too, can't work with it as is...

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

I am personally going to need something done about Overheat too, can't work with it as is...

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I play at around 200 ms too but I personally don't think there's any issue with the overheating or at least for me that is.

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Originally Posted by PuppytimusLeoroccanz

I play at around 200 ms too but I personally don't think there's any issue with the overheating or at least for me that is.

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It is if you are trying to go for the optimal rotation, which is 6 GCDs with OGCDs weaved in during overheat, and with 200ms latency, I can't even pull off the 5 GCD variant.

honestly latency on mch bothers me less than when i get a skill speed buff from someone and everything just stops lining up and screws over my combos. its annoying when youve gone through to 95 heat only to realise that your reload /wf aren't off cooldown yet