Suggestions: Red Mage AoE?

Does anyone else feel like RDM AoE is in a really lackluster spot right now? People seem to be more concerned with their single target damage for raiding and while that is important, I feel like their AoE needs attention too. The incessant spamming of Scatter for ages (unless you have Manafication up) just to build into Enhanced Moulinet feels less than enjoyable compared to others. Would it be fair to suggest that they either build up to Moulinet faster or perhaps improve Scatter itself? Perhaps increase the black/white mana from Scatter to 5 and Enhanced Scatter to 10 or keep it at 8 but increase Enhanced Scatter's damage by 20 when it procs. Its a very one dimensional rotation which is fine, but it doesn't feel right. What about a buff that stacks up to 3 for each time you use Enhanced Moulinet and when it reaches 3 you can use Verholy/Verflare as an AoE once?

Wut spamming scatter is fun then that mlg contresixte and sbam x3 moulinet /shrug

I agree, spamming Scatter until you get enough to use Moulinet 3 times is such a short and lackluster payoff, its the most boring AoE of the casters by far, hate playing it in dungeons for this reason.

Moulinet deserves a combo skill sort of like DRG's Doom Spike > Sonic Thrust with the proper adjustments to the mana bars (so you'd do 1 > 2 > 1 > 2). Also, I think the Enhanced Scatter proc should do increased damage or lower the recast on Contre Sixte by 5-10 seconds. Or both.

All this being said, RDM AoE isn't "bad" it's just nothing in comparison to BLM/SMN.

Imho they should've given an aoe spell instead of the Impact mechanic, but I wonder if they kept it for later expansions

It may be boring but it's effective. Adding more bells and whistles doesn't make something better at it's job (in this case doing AoE damage).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VanilleFang

It may be boring but it's effective. Adding more bells and whistles doesn't make something better at it's job (in this case doing AoE damage).

---

Feeling rewarding is just as important as being rewarding (which most packs don't last long enough for it to do either).

Actually i dont find RDM aoes lackluster at all. Dualcast scatter looks powerful, can be cast from far away where it is safe to be, doesn't deplete your mana at all, you have some other skills on short cds (manafication, enhanced moulinet, fleche) to break the monotony, in fact it is the job i choose if i know i will be aoeing a lot.

But now that i think of it, maybe my opinion is a bit biased because the aoes of the only other 70 job i am actively playing, the MCH, are way, way worse XD

Eh, I personally find rdm's aoe to be rewarding enough in its own right. When you know what packs to save it for, the quintuple-emboldened-moulinet feels oh so good to pull off. For example, in temple of the fist, be sitting at or near 100/100 mana when you finish off the first boss, and the pull after that you can pretty much solo. In Skalla, the first pull ususally lasts long enough for you to hit 100/100 and then unleash that on the second pull.

Sure, it can be a bit tedious to build up to it, but that's pretty much the hallmark of any class's aoe. Much less rewarding compared to the single-target rotation. I personally find that unleashing 7.5 seconds of 140 potency per second on everything in front of you is pretty dang satisfying. I'd rather other areas of rdm got looked at before their aoe.

It may just be my opinion but I think SMN has the least efficient AoE, not because of power but because of time. DoTs aside, because of the nerf, but SMN is always in a 60s lockout for their AoE. Now I'm not saying it's bad or ineffective, it's just not as spammable as the other casters, their only spammable spell now is Tri-Bind(the skill is great now but please change that namel) while in DWT. Basically, you use 15 seconds for Painflare, then 15 spamming Tri-Bind while under DWT. That leave 30 whole seconds that you cant really AoE. Now it's a theoretical 30 seconds, there are of course other factors involved.

But in trash packs that 30 seconds in roughly in between pulls. If a pack of enemies isn't dead or nearly dying in a dungeon once a Summer has finished his burst and used Deathflare then the other DPS or healer isn't contributing enough. That isn't the issue with RDM. Its just that RDM AoE feels very repetitive and even the payoff for Enhanced Moulinet doesn't feel good. Thats why I had suggested that Enhanced Moulinet acts like a 'combo' similar to their single target rotation, and once you use it three times you can use an AoE Verholy/Verflare as a finisher. That would make it feel like a better payoff.

Say what if they add an effect similar to Summoners Tri-Bind, but using RDMs Tether spell instead. Whenever Enhanced Scatter procs Tether will hit for X potency. Might be a bit odd since Tether is just a bind, but its an option.

I dig it, especially since we've been discussing how to make Freeze useful (finally)!~

At least you know about Enchanted Moulinet.

SOOOO many rdm do their physical combo on 1 mob in a group that I don't even bother to ask why anymore.

I'd still say replace Tether and give RDM Verwater and Verblizzard.

And maybe something for an AoE equivalent of Verflare/Verholy. Not sure what I'd call it. We have Jolt, Impact and Scatter for neutral spells...

I quickly skimmed, but it looks like no one mentioned that RDMs AoE actually changes if there's exactly 3 enemies.
So you need to watch how quickly enemies are going to die, and switch spells if there will be only 3 enemies as u pick ur next spell.

(You use single target after scatter, to build up the meter quicker, for more WSs)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

I'd still say replace Tether and give RDM Verwater and Verblizzard.

And maybe something for an AoE equivalent of Verflare/Verholy. Not sure what I'd call it. We have Jolt, Impact and Scatter for neutral spells...

---

While I'd like to see Verwater and Verblizzard, I personally want a Water spell, in general, to use. The fact that we still don't have one is a bit bothersome. Fluid Aura doesn't count, especially now that it's just a knock back.

Technically speaking Cure and similar are water spells

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Technically speaking Cure and similar are water spells

---

That might be, lorewise, but we all want a damaging spell.

I play BRD and RDM and I feel like RDM's AOE rotation is much more enjoyable than BRDs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

I quickly skimmed, but it looks like no one mentioned that RDMs AoE actually changes if there's exactly 3 enemies.
So you need to watch how quickly enemies are going to die, and switch spells if there will be only 3 enemies as u pick ur next spell.

(You use single target after scatter, to build up the meter quicker, for more WSs)

---

Yes, that's pretty important to remember in the RDM aoe "flow", as it were. It's really only Scatter spam/E. Moulinet when you have 4+ enemies to burn through. Contre Sixte is also a big part of aoe damage for RDM too, though I don't remember seeing mention of it on this thread. You could also use up E. Moulinet on a three-enemy mob I suppose, but I prefer saving the mana-gauge for 4+ personally where it counts more. It's a fair arsenal I think, though I wouldn't think one or two more options in the future is out of the question. My concern is the danger of button bloat, but I suppose that's a bridge that'll be crossed in time.

Edit: I do see Contre Sixte was mentioned a couple times, so there's that lol.