Most jobs should have had the animation upgrade MCH had

Most classes basically had the same combos since the making of the game in ARR, and probably even before that, in 1.0. Why not give us new animations?

MCH in 3.X had some underwhelming attack animations so they fixed them and now they're pretty flashy and it feels good to use their skills. While you have MNK who is a very combo based class, still stuck to some very old and weak looking skills.

They even took away some good stuff like Ring of Thorns and Wide Volley and kept Doom Spike and Quick Nock instead (I don't mind Doom Spike mind you). Upgrades to the moves animations would make them feel more powerful and fun to use, and make being at 70 feel awesome.

Most actions are already overly flashy, and because the animations can't use transparency, making things flashier would just lead to more visual obstruction. I already can't see the area around my target most of the time unless I set everyone to Limited, even in light parties.

You can be flashy without obstructing view. Take DRG's CT combo for example; even though it's old, it's elegant, well done and feels good to execute, and on top of that, pretty clean. Why should a class like MNk for example, keep the same level 1 skill for the past 4 years with no form of change whatsoever? You don't think an improvement could be made?

not every job needs to have flashy attacks, i personally prefer if the dev team made skills what aren't excesive flashy, because ot forces me to put in limited most attaks of the rest of the party/alliances since they just make imposible to notice what is around you when you are at melee range, oh, also, drg ct combo to me do not falls under flashy attacks, but rather regular-ish looking ones

also, monk attacks are fine as how they are, they feel right to use as how they are, is just not your thing tho

Please no. They're the reason I leveled Bard before Machinist. I would never sub again if I had to put up with that level of eyesore on every job.

No thanks. Maybe make it look prettier, but I prefer it to not obstruct view.

Currently the one gripe I have is Abyssal Drain. It's a giant black spiky ball and I can't see AoE telegraphs while the visual effect is playing out.

Absolutely not. This would actually bother me to the point of unsubbing. There are many reasons why I chose to painfully let go my main class all through Heavensward. One of the biggest was the fact that I had to deal with extremely obnoxious, Wanted-esque flipping and magic bullet bending on a class that used to be rather precise and deliberate in their style.

It was utterly abhorrent to me, and if every class had this kind of embarrassing treatment, I couldn't stand to play this game anymore.

That being said, you do bring up good examples like Chaos Thrust, which is simple, elegant, and indicative of Dragoons through Freya's Cherry Blossom skill. Monk and I'd argue Ninja could stand to have a more diverse pool of skill animations, but god forbid anything as horrifically designed as B-rate Hollywood movie Machinist.

I didn't mean that I want the same degree of flashiness MCH had, even though I did like them. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm not sure why it's such a black or white situation. We either stay with the old animations or get animations designed by Micheal Bay's team, that's not how it works. We can get a middle ground, something new and fresh. Nothing over the top but at least different, that's all. Something to consider.

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Originally Posted by Alexalibur

I'm not sure why it's such a black or white situation... We can get a middle ground, something new and fresh. Nothing over the top but at least different, that's all.

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Because on matters based on subjective opinion, it's not actually that easy to identify the "middle ground". What's "average" to you can be "over-the-top" for someone else, or "too bland" for another player.

Just take the colour saturation for the game, for example. To me, the default setting is already just nice, but for many people, the colours appear washed out. Many resort to using ReShade to pump up the contrast to levels that appear way too extreme to me, but nonetheless suit them just fine.

So, frankly, this is not an issue for the team to fuss over. There'll be no way to please everyone on this matter.

some ppl like the non-heated version of MCH's shots (like myself, I've gotten used to it but still don't like it)

Currently have all other party members set to limited.
Way too much disco abilities. Saturday Night Fever has nothing on FF 14 party fighting with full effects on.

I played MCH up to 70 two weeks ago, and while I thought, that the unimproved skills looked to lame (except Clean Shot, where he does this awesome jump and twirl), I think that the improved shots are just too much and flashy (except Heated Split Shot, that looks fine).

Imo tanks, melees and physical ranges animations should focus on how they move and use their weapons and have one or two really flashing cd's, that really feel like a powerful ability, while mages and healers should definitevely focus on flashy magic attacks.

Like DRK for e.g. I know I deal around much with dark power, but the core of my fighting style is the three metres high sword I swing around like a maniac! <3

I personally like the new machinist animations. It was part of the reason I picked it up again after bard got changed. It's more satisfying in animation style than bard, however, its not for everyone nor should it be for every class. I think they did a good job balancing flash with basic animation designs this time around.

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Originally Posted by RylaBee

Currently have all other party members set to limited.
Way too much disco abilities. Saturday Night Fever has nothing on FF 14 party fighting with full effects on.

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This is what I do, since I main tank, the amount of animations was a bit overkill. esp in 8 man parties. 24 man forget it, you can barely see anything.

Job functionality aside, I do like the new animations, Heated Split Shot being a personal favorite. I liked the old ones too, but people did complain it was too "boring". It's important to consider though that there's only so many ways to fire a gun (and a bow to some extent). This is what concerns me about if they might ever consider a rifle-based job (though it makes me happy to see that SOME consideration has been going into the form factor/size of MCH weps and two-handed practicality lately). We point, we shoot. If that's too boring, we get special effects and acrobatics. If that's too flashy, then MCH just may not hold appeal for you.

I do personally want to see more "machine" in Machinist. Heated Clean Shot is a nice start with the launchers. We're using the latest technology/derivative magitek to fight at range. I'd better be summoning magitek bits or some kind of targeting/scouting drone by level 80. . . And even the pirates have beams, SE. Come on!

MCH new shots are cool the first 5min you get them. Then you realize you will never see the others anytime but the 10s after the end of overheat, and you start wondering : "Why does my heated gun make little bots appear that still makes the shot hit like a wet noodle because I have a turret ?"

They don't feel special, they are overly complex and quickly fall into the "not paying attention anymore" box, where you begin to regret your steady shooter job than changes into a jumping-monkey one :/

MCH got new animations? I am honestly almost 67 and didn't notice XD. Also I love MNK don't change it.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Because on matters based on subjective opinion, it's not actually that easy to identify the "middle ground". What's "average" to you can be "over-the-top" for someone else, or "too bland" for another player.

Just take the colour saturation for the game, for example. To me, the default setting is already just nice, but for many people, the colours appear washed out. Many resort to using ReShade to pump up the contrast to levels that appear way too extreme to me, but nonetheless suit them just fine.

So, frankly, this is not an issue for the team to fuss over. There'll be no way to please everyone on this matter.

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That said, there are factors that appeal to both sides, even if others like particle effect size, color, and density (all together: "presence") may not. Would anyone look at the animation for Plunge, for instance and think, "How did something so basic possibly get through development? He's just stepping towards the enemy!" And yet there's not a single particle effect on it. Bloodspiller, despite it's being so quickly clipped (especially relative to the infamous Plunge) and thereby muted, is mostly the same—complex animation, relatively little particle flair necessary. And while it's animation may look a bit show-off, it's not so outright without physical basis or contrary to prior design principles as, say, the new Machinist Heated shots, wherein kick-flips increase bullet speed, and you're somehow no longer bound to your usual turret limit, except only for those particular shots...

So while particle effect presence or the like may be subject to polar and uncompromising opinions, a balance of elegance (even if somewhat bending practicality) and apparent expertise (not necessarily more practical, but keeping such in consideration) has far, far closer poles and considerably more overlap.

Heck, take the Witcher's / Geralt's sword animations, even from his cutscenes, for example: I've done enough longsword fencing myself to understand how, why, and when a lot of those get ridiculous, but at least they can excuse themselves such that I'll still, especially in a physics-less MMO like XIV, forgive them so long as they look that neat.

Personally, I just want to have back the cool looking-spinning-flying animation of dancing edge on eolian edge instead of the one we have now, which is in my opinion not cool at all and boring. I don't care about the "flashiness" :p

IMO, Machinist's animations are beyond ridiculous and frankly, stupid looking. I wish they would shoot a gun like a normal person, you know, with precision and aim. Not jumping around for no reason, only hurting your accuracy.

What look like rifles, behave like a Swiss-Army-Gun but are handled like hand guns. Why aren't Machinist's kneeling, using two hands and aiming their guns? If it's two handed, make 'em use two hands. Or make them one handed and give us two of them.

Also, I wish ricochet didn't look like a mini-EMP.

Also, I don't really know what the little machine attached to the hip is actually doing.

Also, ammo is poorly designed. It shouldn't be called ammo, since clearly it does not represent your ammo lol.

"the little machine attached to the hip" aka Lunchbox, is what charging energy to make machinist able to do all the flashy stuff, or magic-like actions or charging your turrets.
Special ammo or Augmented ammo, could be more explaning it allows you to always do cool tricks for combos, yea. But it's hard to explain lore wise why combos are rng, tbh :/

The problem with shooting like a normal person would it to need to have a character attacking at least once per second to make it cool. It's weird already to have the 3 hit of the old combo (the unheated one nowadays) which were inflicting more or less dmg according to the animation while you just shoot a same kind of bullet on someone on the same part of the body. At least the new combo explain why some hits hurt more than another one.

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Originally Posted by Alexalibur

I'm not sure why it's such a black or white situation. We either stay with the old animations or get animations designed by Micheal Bay's team, that's not how it works. We can get a middle ground, something new and fresh. Nothing over the top but at least different, that's all. Something to consider.

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The biggest problem with flashy animations is actually not any single animation being too flashy. It's that every animation, no matter how sparse, is opaque, because programming transparent objects that will intersect with other transparent objects is a pain and not something the devs like to deal with. So everything's opaque, and when multiple animations happen on top of each other, we quickly reach a saturation that makes it difficult to see anything, even when we take a middle ground approach.

still think (elezen) blm running animation with their weapon out looks sily (like a stick up their @ss..).., ruins the immersion for me

I'd like freeze and ice to get a revamp.

I was hoping to at least get a new animation for my main attack spell with 4.0. Maybe call it Fire V. Instead, they kept Fire IV and nerfed the potency.

The thing is MCH had probably the most boring attack animations ever for most of the skills so their upgrade made sense in a way, but imho they went too far and honestly the heated skills doesn't look like the heat is affecting them (bar heated split shot).

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it's hard to explain lore wise why combos are rng

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"Lorewise" shooting a gun like doesn't work, they'd never hit anything.

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The problem with shooting like a normal person would it to need to have a character attacking at least once per second to make it cool.

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What? Why? In fact, "lorewise" someone using a gun should not be constantly attacking as they would need to reload, regardless of the type of ammo. Machinists behave like boring Mages with a gun, the machines don't behave like machines, they behave like magic generators.

IMO, Machinists should be played as half-rifler, half-trap setter. Using a choice of a wide variety of machines. I would put in abilities like "Take Aim" or "Use Scope", "Proximity Mine", "Ghillie Suit". What if a machinist carried around a backpack with spare parts and pockets to hold portable machines? What if they pulled out a handgun, for small damage, put it away, pulled out a shotgun for big damage, throw a specialized grenades for different types of aoes. They could even have machines that create beneficial aoes or heal - the autoturrets are a boring copout for low dps anyway.

It needs to be completely re-designed.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I was hoping to at least get a new animation for my main attack spell with 4.0. Maybe call it Fire V. Instead, they kept Fire IV and nerfed the potency.

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Honestly in the case of BLM. I really don't think à new spammable is needed. We are literally creating a small sun...
If they are to add a fire V, I would like it to work like ruine 4 via a trait to improve an already existing skill (fire iii would fit perfectly)

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Originally Posted by fodare

"Lorewise" shooting a gun like doesn't work, they'd never hit anything.


What? Why? In fact, "lorewise" someone using a gun should not be constantly attacking as they would need to reload, regardless of the type of ammo. Machinists behave like boring Mages with a gun, the machines don't behave like machines, they behave like magic generators.

IMO, Machinists should be played as half-rifler, half-trap setter. Using a choice of a wide variety of machines. I would put in abilities like "Take Aim" or "Use Scope", "Proximity Mine", "Ghillie Suit". What if a machinist carried around a backpack with spare parts and pockets to hold portable machines? What if they pulled out a handgun, for small damage, put it away, pulled out a shotgun for big damage, throw a specialized grenades for different types of aoes. They could even have machines that create beneficial aoes or heal - the autoturrets are a boring copout for low dps anyway.

It needs to be completely re-designed.

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I wouldn't mind a complete redesign for MCH.

It's a bloody mess of confusing ideas and bizarre mechanics that don't even seem to align with any of the previous iterations of machinists from FF games: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Machinist_(job)

Most machinists are described as using a VARIETY of gadgets to attack their enemies, some wielding hammers, others throwing grenades, etc.

Beyond that, the rotation is just kind of convoluted to the point where it feels more like plate spinning than something that's actually fun and satisfying to use.

As for the subject, the MCH's flashy animations could be viewed as an apology for the rest of the class being such a general mess... :P

I was hoping that Monk would actually look like some Super Saiyan 4 fight scenes in battles when using their skills with grease lightning xD

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Originally Posted by fodare

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You're kinda out of topic, it's about animations here, you talk about game design. To make it short, all I meant was "animation would be boring if too realistic".

I don't see what reloading has to do here to counter my argument. You don't reload every bullet.

On top of that, I don't see how they behave like boring mages, nor about design, nor about animations. When you'll be MCH 70 and try to be optimal, I don't believe you'll feel like boring mages.

PS : I'm not for or against a machinist remake, it's just that it's out of topic imo.

Other than that, it doesn't "need" to be redesigned. Even if I agree we expected more different tools in their kit.
They could just make another new class fitting more what the FF machinist could be.

DRG here, guess it just me but i wish the dev change the mirage dive animation.

nothing wrong with it but, i just don't feel the "impact" whenever i use it. You can feel the "omph" when using jump skill, then Dragonfire Dive add even more with explosion impact.

iam expecting another jump animation with awesome "mirrage" effect, not a "blue wyrm ghost shoot out from my body" effect.

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Originally Posted by fodare

What look like rifles, behave like a Swiss-Army-Gun but are handled like hand guns. Why aren't Machinist's kneeling, using two hands and aiming their guns?

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Totally agree on the "use both hands to shoot part", especially since many MCH weapons look rather like rifles than pistoles.

Overall, unimproved shots, autoattacks, the running Animation with weapon (sprint with weapon is fine though) and even how MCH's just stand and hold their weapons looks way too "stiff". I would prefer something more..."Revolverhero" like. Just like good old Irvine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLD-NqZ1MCI

Also, can we please get rid of this ugly thing by /something-something, just like we did with oversized Demi-Bahamut...?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...018_163215.png

I hate this little thing...rotating on the top and destroying the image of my Gunblade...mocking me with it's precondition for improved shots and increased damage!

Edit: This already exists? Nice! Thanks Fannah!

/cgauss to get rid of the ugly cannon gausss model. :)

^you know... It would be pretty awesome if they make the gauss bit has different model design depend on which gun model you use. Or instead of bit the gun itself transform when you use "gauss mode", like the dominator from psycho pass anime