Stormblood really lacked in difficult leveling dungeon

In 2.0 we had aurum vale and 3.0 we had the vault. At the time they were quite challenging, but all the sb dungeons from the ghost ship to the 69 dungeon are just too easy

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

In 2.0 we had aurum vale and 3.0 we had the vault. At the time they were quite challenging, but all the sb dungeons from the ghost ship to the 69 dungeon are just too easy

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Both AV and Vault were max lvl required story dungeons, I would say a few of the 70 dungeons are on par with hardness of them.

Just because you found them easy or other people did doesn't mean they weren't hard for others. Just like people find normal raiding hard and others find it faceroll.

Welcome to Relaxing Fantasy XIV.

I can't necessarily say I agree, but I mainly leveled SCH first and that class was hit so hard with the nerf bat at the start of the expansion that even simple content ended up being harder than it perhaps should have been.

I guess you've never run Castrum Abania.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

I guess you've never run Castrum Abania.

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My favorite is running Bardam's with a tank who thinks he doesn't need CDs

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Originally Posted by Youkulm

My favorite is running Bardam's with a tank who thinks he doesn't need CDs

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Bardams or Castrum with that tank would both be a nightmare. and honestly aurum vale isn't any worse, except that awful first room.

I never knew either dungeon to be challenging, honestly. AV was heinously tedious - and the Vault was actually fairly enjoyable. But difficult is not how I would describe them.

I would actually favor engagement over 'difficulty' which I felt some dungeons achieved in Stormblood, Ala Mhigo among them.

The thing is, challenge, difficulty, and engagement is all subjective on the viewpoint of the player - so I don't think using the terms we're are applying currently is at all constructive. Maybe we need to change our approach and disseminate what we can agree we want out of dungeons.

Vault is really fun unless you're healing with terrible gear, especially if you're a scholar.

I think Bardam’s menthol is closest to our AV and the vault.
Still,Its not on the same level of frustation compared to those two dungeons.

And yet, Duty Finder still finds a way to make leveling dungeons torturous

Yeah, we totally needed some leveling dungeons that nobody wants to run in this expansion too.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Yeah, we totally needed some leveling dungeons that nobody wants to run in this expansion too.

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*snrk*
.. ok that was unnecessarily sarcastic but funny.
Yeah, honestly difficult content is there if you want it but I'm glad it wasn't made part of the required storyline or basic roulettes. I've never had difficulty with any dungeon but I know there are a few that if they come up I can guarantee someone dropping instantly because "meh I don't like this one".

AV being so frustrating was somehow acceptable because ultimately it was optional content. Locking behind it GC progression but if you squint you can still pretend that sort of thing's optional. And it still gets insta-abandoned by tanks and healers, we don't need more of that sort of thing in the game, let alone story dungeons.
Plus, as said before, at this point I'm not sure I'd say anything in SB lacks in difficulty compared to AV or the Vault. If your healers aren't on top of their game, or the tanks think they can pull from boss to boss with Shisui gear in Bardam, you're in for a bad time, and these are mostly the things that got you wiped in AV and Vault too.

well, when they designed Aurum Vale the devs still had faith in the playerbase. the difficulty didn't end there, Wanderers Palace was maybe easier, but the chasing tomberrys were a frightening threat with ilvl 50. and pre nerf Amdapor with the demon wall and one shot mechanics at the endboss... and then came Pharos Sirius and the playerbase just said no and so modern dungeons are faceroll easy. they nerfed most of the dungeons or we outgeared them. but because of lvl synch we can't outgear aurum vale and it wasn't that drastically nerfed like Amdapor or Pharos.

and the Vault... they made it harder because the knights and thordan should be depicted as powerfull enemys.

and imagine if some weaklings would have killed Haurchefant? not very plausible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...jg&sh=dbacbf24

From a DPS standpoint, AV and the vault are not difficult at all.

From a tank and healer perspective " Sickness must be purged!!!"

AV made sense because Malboros are annoying enemies in any FF. And the Vault made sense because you were going up against Ishgards best knights.

In SB the only real enemy IMO is the main protagonist. Every other enemy is someone our allies have trouble against but when they face the warrior of light they are mere flies to us.

I think they didn't make a difficult leveling dungeon due to many new players joining the game, or possibly the jump potion fiasco which surprisingly not many people purchased.

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Originally Posted by Tint

well, when they designed Aurum Vale the devs still had faith in the playerbase.

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I see the ARR redesign of Aurum Vale as a big nerf.
The real Aurun Vale was designed as a raid dungeon for 8 player party

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Originally Posted by Derio

I think they didn't make a difficult leveling dungeon due to many new players joining the game, or possibly the jump potion fiasco which surprisingly not many people purchased.

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Also to give time to relearn the changed lv 1-60 skills

If you want difficulty then try healing a i270 Shire SLAYING ACCESSORY tank in Castrum Abania.

You'll miss your MP very quickly.

I really didn't notice any difference between HW's leveling dungeons vs SB's. Mobs still hit like a truck if you're not doing things right. In an ideal world, things should run smooth but I'll agree with Nol: DF will always find a way to turn your leveling experience into a living nightmare. DPS not knowing what they are doing and haven't read what AoE damage is, undergeared tanks thinking they are superman, healers that can't keep up. I think the difficulty is about right and they introduced some innovative stuff like the second boss at Bardam's (I stillt think that this boss should become a tutorial tied to the Hall of the Novice (Intermediate)).

Aurum Vale only has 1 difficulty: It's tedious. Specially the first room if people want a full clear. First and last boss are kinda difficult if people are clueless about the debuffs and if you're a healer. Second boss can be a joke if people remember about the swing. The Vault was only "difficult" if you were a healer in the last boss and the DPS would do whatever with chains, the marching horses and staying far for AoE heals.

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Originally Posted by Tint

well, when they designed Aurum Vale the devs still had faith in the playerbase. the difficulty didn't end there, Wanderers Palace was maybe easier, but the chasing tomberrys were a frightening threat with ilvl 50. and pre nerf Amdapor with the demon wall and one shot mechanics at the endboss... and then came Pharos Sirius and the playerbase just said no and so modern dungeons are faceroll easy. they nerfed most of the dungeons or we outgeared them. but because of lvl synch we can't outgear aurum vale and it wasn't that drastically nerfed like Amdapor or Pharos.

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Oh, the bees in Demon Wall, dealing with the 2-pattern lineal AoE on top of their circular AoE that stunned you on top of the push back. Being a DPS race at the time to not get crushed against the wall at ilvl 50. Not gonna lie, I loved that fight and it saddened me when they nerfed it. Anantaboga had a strat, something that most dungeons nowdays don't have. Same with Pharos, I think the second boss was kinda difficult to deal with but fun regardless. The problem with Pharos was the lack of balance between difficulty/reward, in my opinion.

This thread cracks me up after all the boo hoo the menagerie is way too hard threads.

To be fair, the only reason AV is terrible is because of all the awful mob movement patterns that result in needlessly larger pulls than intended, making it a nightmare for tanks and healers.
The vault is a healer nightmare cause people that ignore mechanics will drain your MP trying to fix their mistakes.
In SB, I'd say it would be Bardams that holds this honor as between the mobs hitting much harder, tedious 2nd boss and the healer pain of the last boss (granted not as difficult as the vault) it's just not very enjoyable overall.

The SB leveling dungeon were not only easier, but people started killing the mobs in packs of 2-4. The good part is the dungeon is finished alot faster, the downside, when doing it for the first time, you rush it.

One thing I liked about the Sirensong Sea (which is possibly the easiest dungeon ever btw), is the intro. Fighting on the ship, seeing the ship strand on the shore and jump off - I dunno, there's just something about that ship-sequence that feels immersive.

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Originally Posted by Tint

and imagine if some weaklings would have killed Haurchefant? not very plausible.

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You just HAD to bring that up, didn't you?

I'd argue that castrum abania is pretty hard. Especially the final boss where it becomes almost impossible to beat with 2 stacks.

And here I thought Bardam's Mettle was pretty challenging.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

And here I thought Bardam's Mettle was pretty challenging.

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Bardam's Mettle is quite entertaining, if you ask me. It's nice with something that isn't just plain fighting. But then I always enjoyed aoe dodging and such, which is probably why I like Titan.
Bardam's doesn't seem very popular though.

Bardam's Mettle is at that awkward level where all the gear you've saved up poetics for officially is not good enough anymore.

The first pull can absolutely flatten a tank if they try for too many. Even under cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

To be fair, the only reason AV is terrible is because of all the awful mob movement patterns that result in needlessly larger pulls than intended, making it a nightmare for tanks and healers.

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AV isn't so bad if you have a good tank.
And by good tank I mean one which has patience and can wait for the right time and place to make a pull so as to not pull more than needed. Too few tanks in this game seems to know how to do that.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

[...]has patience and can wait for the right time [...]

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To few PEOPLE have that. Everything these days is turning into a "I want it, and I want it last week!" situation(both in game and out of game). I see it everyday on my way home from work, people shoving past others to get on the train/bus, and shoving past someone who is half sitting to get the seat they were about to sit in.

In game, it's people not wanting to wait for mechanics to be explained to a new person, or not wanting to wait the 30sec for a cut scene before a boss fight and locking someone out(has happened to me a few times in the past). There are countless examples that can be found in the game of a lack of patience, and it's not just the tanks.

I'd say there's plenty of harder stuff this time around, like Castrum Abania's final boss. Trying to avoid the mess that's going on once 2 stacks happen is not easy.

Anything involving Bardam's is pretty difficult actually, unless you have a group that's geared up completely and knows what they're doing 100%.

I think Aurum Vale was more annoying than difficult.
Vault I'd agree on being challenging but only for the last boss

A good tank and healer can make any dungeon seem easier than it is. The opposite is also true.
Bardam's is the first huge gear jump and can be a struggle with an under geared tank still in Shire gear under the impression they need to pull big.
CA too - ignore those boss mechanics and you will die unless you can heal through the mistakes.
As with all dungeons the threat is your fellow players - not the content itself.

I'd like to have something akin to wow mythic dungeob

The vault was an issue when people didn't break their chains or stack their bacon.

AV was just cumbersome if tanks didn't know their pulls and only the first room. The rest is a joke.

Bardam's Mettle is "Dungeon/Raid mechanics for Dummies". It is amazing to me that people still don't know mechanics by level 65.

I can't say any dungeon is particularly hard in this game but DF never ceases to amaze me.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Bardam's Mettle is "Dungeon/Raid mechanics for Dummies". It is amazing to me that people still don't know mechanics by level 65.

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I would say Bardam is more the first dungeon in SB where the mobs actually hit decently. The rest of it I will agree with though.

It really does depend. Not everyone was/is a shired & augmented 60 heading into the newest dungeons. I had everything for my trinity (Healer [main], Tank [off] and DPS [bored]), so things were pretty smooth for my main characters (albeit not entirely faceroll) and even the dungeon drops weren't an upgrade at this point due to the gear difference.

However, I later had to do the 61 recently where people were clearly just hitting 60+ with whatever greens they could muster. This changed the landscape quite a lot. I practically had to tank a particular run there on my max-geared MNK because the tank's gear was sub-par and/or they were clearly new to the whole thing, whereas every geared character in existence had been gagging for Stormblood and experienced it far more comfortably during its initial release due to the sheer volume of Iddyl'idlers waiting to zerg into new territory with their max toons.

I really quite enjoyed all the dungeons, some of which proved rough if your tank was in any way squishy (especially Bardam onward when all you have is the levelling gear rather than pre-maxed 60 items). Given not everyone was up to speed with the (new) bosses and mechanics, even when things were going smoothly there was potential for wrenches to be thrown in the works due to inexperience. Sadly, like any content, all of it will eventually broil back into being casual farm when you've done it all before and can pre-gear your new levellers - that's just the way it is - but if you really did believe the new stuff was pure faceroll, then clearly you were just more prepared for it than others at the time.