A Summoners Request

Just putting my voice forward to combine the Dreadwyrm Trance and Deathflare, as well as Summon Bahamut and Enkindle Bahamut actions like they are in PvP.

Thank you

No.
/thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by popotaro

No.
/thread

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But why? I mean is there a reason why this shouldn't happen?

Do you mean for the skills to change whilst active to remove skill bloat?
If so, it'd be quite helpful, yes.

I’m on the fence about “button bloat”. Having too few buttons makes jobs seem even more monotonous than they already are. I see no reason that deathflare and Enkindle Bahamut should be the same button.

The pet skills should translate over, maybe, and MAYBE DWT and Deathflare, but again, feels boring to press like 5 buttons at all ever, at least to me.

I actually like having all the keybinds as they are currently....on the fence with Enkindle Bahamut but I can work with it. There's something about having all of these buttons that helps keep me both calm and aware in combat.

One thing I can say for sure is that I'm not sure how it translates for those playing on a controller. A friend of mine says they absolutely cannot play Summoner on their PS4 controller...never used it so I can't say much on that topic.

as someone who mash the keys because of latency, no, plenty of times in pvp i just waste the trance right away because they are in the same key...

It'd be really cool if it would happen.
Too many jobs still have useless skills there and there.
Like BLM with fire/ice IV.
I mean, with the current way these spells work, enochian could turn into the corresponding spell. Same for freadwyrm stance ans summon bahamut, its a useless button bloat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Llugen

I’m on the fence about “button bloat”. Having too few buttons makes jobs seem even more monotonous than they already are.

The pet skills should translate over, maybe, and MAYBE DWT and Deathflare, but again, feels boring to press like 5 buttons at all ever, at least to me.

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Buttons =/= Abilities.

Feel free to make duplicates of every ability and alternate between which button you activate it by if you so please. It will not affect the complexity of your job in any way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Llugen

I see no reason that deathflare and Enkindle Bahamut should be the same button.

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This was never suggested, as they are not functionally duplicates or "stages" of the same ability. Deathflare cannot be cast while not in Dreadwyrm Trance, nor can Dreadwyrm Trance by recast in the time that Deathflare is available. Likewise Enkindle Bahamut cannot be cast without Summon Bahamut first being activated, and Summon Bahamut cannot be recast in the time that Enkindle Bahamut is available.

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Originally Posted by Mattnificent

But why? I mean is there a reason why this shouldn't happen?

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For the most part, you're simply dealing with people who feel that, say, breaking up Ruin I into combo-cycles of otherwise identical abilities merely varying by 10 potency each as to take up 3 buttons to perform the same filler function (but at faint loss if you have to reapply DoTs just before its third stage) would be a meaningful increase to complexity worthy of its button bloat.

Your only actual, and easily countered, reason would be accidentally double-hits in regard to the suggested Dreadwyrm Trance <--> Deathflare pairing -- causing early accidental Deathflare casts -- which would benefit from the same QoL changes that would affect any such ability or ability toggle with a stacked Cancel Aura effect on the same key, such as Defiance, Deliverance, or Darkside. Simply put, just preventing the stacked action (just as Cancel Defiance is already a stacked action of Defiance, or the cancel aura of any other oGCD stance, and can share the benefits of such a fix) to be queued during the first's animation would be sufficient. That said, you could also go further as to create an iCD of whatever safety margin you see fit, for which margin of time after activating DWT, DF cannot be cast.

But, yeah, it's mostly the "Surely, more buttons means I'm playing a smarter game" meme.

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Originally Posted by Kuzonoha

One thing I can say for sure is that I'm not sure how it translates for those playing on a controller. A friend of mine says they absolutely cannot play Summoner on their PS4 controller...never used it so I can't say much on that topic.

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It plays fine on Controller. It all depends on how you lay it out.

dont like smn on the ps4 since SB (use "obey" on my pet).., cant seem to push the same numbers as my blm (main), unless I can aoe..

during HW smn felt better with a ps4 pad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kuzonoha

I actually like having all the keybinds as they are currently....on the fence with Enkindle Bahamut but I can work with it. There's something about having all of these buttons that helps keep me both calm and aware in combat.

One thing I can say for sure is that I'm not sure how it translates for those playing on a controller. A friend of mine says they absolutely cannot play Summoner on their PS4 controller...never used it so I can't say much on that topic.

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I can do it on a ps4 controller easily, is he talking about the whole pets thing?

This could apply to so many skills it's not even funny.
Jolt 2 and Impact, Ley Lines and Between the Lines.
The list goes on. I'm all for a little more button compression.

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand I too can understand the desire to reduce the number of actions down to free up bar space as others have mentioned, but having it seperate in this case I think is better as you need to the pay attention more plus I think there is also a point where if you combine too many skills/abilities it just becomes too much. I get that they did this in the pvp setting which is why I am on the fence with this change. I like my layout and every simplification requires getting use to a change in button presses in a rotation.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

(buncha words)

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No, it does change your gameplay when double-pressing the button wastes your DWT etc due to latency and such.

There are already significantly less buttons on SMN that need to be pressed regularly than there used to be (complete removal of 2 dots, less need to cast them as often thanks to Tri-D, shadowflare recast rather than 100% uptime, consolidation of rouse and spur, etc.); as I said before, if anything they should be making the pet actions as slots rather than specific actions so that changing summons does not make 2-4 hotkeys useless.

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Originally Posted by Llugen

No, it does change your gameplay when double-pressing the button wastes your DWT etc due to latency and such.

There are already significantly less buttons on SMN that need to be pressed regularly than there used to be (complete removal of 2 dots, less need to cast them as often thanks to Tri-D, shadowflare recast rather than 100% uptime, consolidation of rouse and spur, etc.); as I said before, if anything they should be making the pet actions as slots rather than specific actions so that changing summons does not make 2-4 hotkeys useless.

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Pretty much this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Llugen

No, it does change your gameplay when double-pressing the button wastes your DWT etc due to latency and such.

There are already significantly less buttons on SMN that need to be pressed regularly than there used to be (complete removal of 2 dots, less need to cast them as often thanks to Tri-D, shadowflare recast rather than 100% uptime, consolidation of rouse and spur, etc.); as I said before, if anything they should be making the pet actions as slots rather than specific actions so that changing summons does not make 2-4 hotkeys useless.

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You realize the solution for that, given at the bottom of the post you quoted, is already seen in-game, no? Even a mere one-second safety period prevents accidental double-clicking. And in Enkindle Bahamut's case, it's ideal that it's double-weaved, anyways.

Yes, the SMN toolkit faced unnecessary pruning, but that was to its abilities, not its button-count. Pairing mutually exclusive skills — as per your own recommendation, too, with pet skills — does not bring back Bio, Miasma II, or your casted Shadowflare, but doing so would also remove SE's excuse for future toolkit pruning (which is far cry from button pruning).

While I could still play either way I lean towards not using the same button. I find it easier to track the action availability with two buttons that highlight over a single button that changes its icon.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

While I could still play either way I lean towards not using the same button. I find it easier to track the action availability with two buttons that highlight over a single button that changes its icon.

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Well they could made it as optimal thing like how job gauge are simplimistic or the old one and change action on specific like having TT/VT/FT on the same key but having Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust on 2 different keys or on the same 1 key button so with that everybody can use/change w/e they want to use.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

It plays fine on Controller. It all depends on how you lay it out.

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Maybe you don't play it at its full scale?

On my controller setup all 32 buttons are full without a single duplicate and I'm already using a macro to exchange enkindle during bahamut phase.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Maybe you don't play it at its full scale?

On my controller setup all 32 buttons are full without a single duplicate and I'm already using a macro to exchange enkindle during bahamut phase.

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You have 40 buttons to choose from you can use the extended buttons to (WBHT I believe it is called). I am not talking about the R2 + L2. You double tap R2 and it gives you 4 more buttons that can be the geometric or D-Pad and you get another 4 if you double tap L2.

Please make all 4 ruins use one slot. That way don't need extra slot used. Please make Bahamut-Egi like a limit break then vanish and let you keep your pet out when it is used. How it is now if have Titan-Egi out it looses all agro when it comes back.

Please give Deathflare more single-target Death :)

I love dropping the big Hammer on targets - ka-THOOM!!!

But the amount of actual Death, vs. the promise in the spell effect, is somewhat disappointing.

:)