Leveling carpenter has been great for my botanist...

... but not my carpenter.

After playing for a solid six hours last night with the intent of leveling my carpenter, I took my Botanist from 38 to within 7k of 41, but only gathered enough materials in the process to get my carpenter from a fresh 33 to about 14k into 34.

What's wrong with this picture?

I was even doing Mahogany logs, meaning my carpenter averaged twice as much exp per action as my botanist since a failed synth netted me as much as a single gathering action.

The problem is DoH classes are so dependent on investing so much time on a different class to level them. All other disciplines can level dependably through leves but for DoH it's a crap shoot. Maybe we'll get five leves at our level with little travel needed. Maybe we'll get one 10 levels below us that inexplicably requires us to run by absurdly high level enemies to deliver.

I still don't understand how, after more than a year of retail that this wasn't fixed. Why don't DoH have static leves to choose from? It couldn't possibly take that much effort. The system is already there to have set leves for given ranges for othe classes and the game already has leves in it that increase in difficulty every five levels for DoH. Just cut out the random nature of them.

Please, SE allow me to actually spend time leveling only my chosen class when I actually manage to set aside time for it. Static leves for DoH is such a simple fix. If they take as much exp to level, they should be on equal footing for options in means of progression.

Yeah this is one of thise things they need to streamline. If you're doing botany for carpenter, the same time put into both should get you to the same levels in both. Unforunately that isn't the case and either leaves you short (vast majorty of cases) or with a surplus as you level past something.

I'm with you on this all the way.

I think its right on if you ask me. You have 3 DoL farming for 8 DoH. It seems logical that you cant expect every swing of your tool to yield exactly what you need for what your doing with your particular DoH. The way everyone else does it is sell the items your not using to by more of what someone else farmed that they don't need that you do, because they are farming for a different DoH. Its give and take. Its what drives the part of this games ecomony that is working.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

I think its right on if you ask me. You have 3 DoL farming for 8 DoH. It seems logical that you cant expect every swing of your tool to yield exactly what you need for what your doing with your particular DoH. The way everyone else does it is sell the items your not using to by more of what someone else farmed that they don't need that you do, because they are farming for a different DoH. Its give and take. Its what drives the part of this games ecomony that is working.

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Well I'm not really taking issue with the rate at which items drop while gathering so much as the fact the DoHs don't have the same access to leves as the other classes.

I only mentioned the time it takes to farm materials to grind craft to illustrate my point that there is a major hurdle to clear before one can actually gain any decent exp that doesn't exist for other classes.

And to boot, I'm not asking that they increase the rate of exp or take away the need to deliver to far and away camps. Only that DoHs have the same access to their leves as everyone else. That way we can level a DoH when we intend to. The random nature of DoH leves is just silly and this has been a complaint since beta.

In XI, I could farm a trillion of something, go find my pleasantly lonely corner of Windurst, and set in for a year or so of crafting. There were no DoL skills. Mining and harvesting were a tiny bit of gear and a lot of luck, and fishing was a little bit more skill. It was the same for just about every synth skill. In XIV, the problem is that, to level Capentry without buying mats, we have another skill entirely. Then, once your botanist is leveled to support your carpentry, you start to have the opposite problem: it levels too fast. While it may take 50 logs to level botanist, it could take 75-100 to level carpenter. Say my Botanist is level 13. I farm enough logs to get my carpenter from level 10 to level 15. But it takes so many logs to do this that my Botanist is level 20. Then, I have to farm more lower-level logs to keep leveling my carpenter, while the exp to my Botanist is getting seriously shafted because my level is far above that of the logs I'm farming.

I'm not sure if this is what the OP is talking about, but it's a problem I've seen, and it's really frustrating. I agree that a better guildleve system would be nice. It's kind of like a choice between spending hours farming to be able to level your carpenter, OR spend two and a half running around doing quests that are sometimes too hard for you to even finish, and other times are so low that you barely get experience.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

... but not my carpenter.

After playing for a solid six hours last night with the intent of leveling my carpenter, I took my Botanist from 38 to within 7k of 41, but only gathered enough materials in the process to get my carpenter from a fresh 33 to about 14k into 34.

What's wrong with this picture?

I was even doing Mahogany logs, meaning my carpenter averaged twice as much exp per action as my botanist since a failed synth netted me as much as a single gathering action.

The problem is DoH classes are so dependent on investing so much time on a different class to level them. All other disciplines can level dependably through leves but for DoH it's a crap shoot. Maybe we'll get five leves at our level with little travel needed. Maybe we'll get one 10 levels below us that inexplicably requires us to run by absurdly high level enemies to deliver.

I still don't understand how, after more than a year of retail that this wasn't fixed. Why don't DoH have static leves to choose from? It couldn't possibly take that much effort. The system is already there to have set leves for given ranges for othe classes and the game already has leves in it that increase in difficulty every five levels for DoH. Just cut out the random nature of them.

Please, SE allow me to actually spend time leveling only my chosen class when I actually manage to set aside time for it. Static leves for DoH is such a simple fix. If they take as much exp to level, they should be on equal footing for options in means of progression.

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one thing you didnt take into consideration is your dol will extremely slow down at lvl 45 with the lack of grade 6. i have arm50 and bls 43 and my miner is still only 46. stop whining and play the game.

also the devs put local leves in the game for a reason, so people wouldn't have to grind on their own mats.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

one thing you didnt take into consideration is your dol will extremely slow dow at lvl 45 with the lack of grade 6. i have arm50 and bls 43 and my miner is still only 46. stop whining and play the game.

also the devs put local leves in the game for a reason, so people wouldn't have to grind on their own mats.

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Did you even read what I wrote?

That was my point. Local leves are in the game for a reason, so we should have static access to them like all other classes do.

I do want to play the game, but in order to play a DoH I currently have to spend two thirds if my play time as a DoL.

Static leve access, that's all I'm asking for.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Did you even read what I wrote?

That was my point. Local leves are in the game for a reason, so we should have static access to them like all other classes do.

I do want to play the game, but in order to play a DoH I currently have to spend two thirds if my play time as a DoL.

Static leve access, that's all I'm asking for.

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there was already i post that the recipes for leves getting revised so you wont need subcrafts for them. read the dev posts.

The problem, though, is that the levels of the leves are random. I can't choose to get all my local leves at level 30, and then choose three stars to make them level 36. If my Carpenter is level 35, the craft could be 30-40, etc, and if I don't like it, tough.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

The problem, though, is that the levels of the leves are random. I can't choose to get all my local leves at level 30, and then choose three stars to make them level 36. If my Carpenter is level 35, the craft could be 30-40, etc, and if I don't like it, tough.

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when i lvled armorer i got lvl 40 and 45 leves. id hold on to to lvl 40 ones and jsut the the 45's. after doing the 45's go back to counter. the counter would normally give me at least 1 more 45. the in the rare occasion it didn't id do the 40's and repeat the process. also for the easy ones just hasty hand them and the xp bonus is worth it.

It bugs me that it takes me the same ammount of time to get 10 levels on Miner as it does to get one level on Armorer. Before they killed gathering fatigue it was roughly the same pace though. Just be glad at least DoL is tolerable now?

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

It bugs me that it takes me the same ammount of time to get 10 levels on Miner as it does to get one level on Armorer. Before they killed gathering fatigue it was roughly the same pace though. Just be glad at least DoL is tolerable now?

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Yeah, leveling a DoL isn't so bad now. 45+ still seems like its going to be a pain. At 42 things are kind of slow.

Thankfully there's really no need to have a DoL over 38 so leveling can kind of come as it may.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

I think its right on if you ask me. You have 3 DoL farming for 8 DoH. It seems logical that you cant expect every swing of your tool to yield exactly what you need for what your doing with your particular DoH. The way everyone else does it is sell the items your not using to by more of what someone else farmed that they don't need that you do, because they are farming for a different DoH. Its give and take. Its what drives the part of this games ecomony that is working.

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Pretty much this.

There are 3 DoL supplying 8 DoH. You cannot expect 1 lvl of DoL experience points to yield an equivalent lvl of DoH when the items obtained are being spread out amongst 2-3+ Crafts each. For ex: Miners supply ores for Armor, Black, Gold AND Leathercraft. Fishers supply fish for Alch and Cullinary. Botanists supply woodworking and clothcrafting to say the least.

On the other hand 1 lvl of DoL MIGHT (speculation) = 1/3 or 1/2 a lvl of 3 or 2 DoH, depending on the DoL and Doh of course. Which would correspond to 1 to 1.

In any case, I don't see a problem with any DoL outpacing the DoH that they supply. Afterall, the higher lvl you are on DoL the more items you can obtain from the gathering points, which gives you a greater amount of materials per node that you can use to grind your DoH on.

And the last point, this is just good economics. This game is supposed to have an economy afterall.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Pretty much this.

There are 3 DoL supplying 8 DoH. You cannot expect 1 lvl of DoL experience points to yield an equivalent lvl of DoH when the items obtained are being spread out amongst 2-3+ Crafts each. For ex: Miners supply ores for Armor, Black, Gold AND Leathercraft. Fishers supply fish for Alch and Cullinary. Botanists supply woodworking and clothcrafting to say the least.

On the other hand 1 lvl of DoL MIGHT (speculation) = 1/3 or 1/2 a lvl of 3 or 2 DoH, depending on the DoL and Doh of course. Which would correspond to 1 to 1.

In any case, I don't see a problem with any DoL outpacing the DoH that they supply. Afterall, the higher lvl you are on DoL the more items you can obtain from the gathering points, which gives you a greater amount of materials per node that you can use to grind your DoH on.

And the last point, this is just good economics. This game is supposed to have an economy afterall.

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There bare boned point of the OP is that we shouldn't have to spend so much time on one class to level another.

The only other option is to buy materials, which isn't acceptable either. Especially with how much shards cost.

One might argue that DoH should have to pay to level, but the truth is the economy is driven by raw materials. DoLs and battle classes can vastly put earn DoHs. Heck, battle classes don't even have to participate in the economy to out earn most crafters.

I'm not saying they should make leveling DoH faster or easier or anything like that. Just that they should have the same access to leves as other disciplines do.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

There bare boned point of the OP is that we shouldn't have to spend so much time on one class to level another.

The only other option is to buy materials, which isn't acceptable either. Especially with how much shards cost.

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I don't see why this option is not acceptable. If that were the case, there would be no reason for an economy.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

One might argue that DoH should have to pay to level, but the truth is the economy is driven by raw materials. DoLs and battle classes can vastly put earn DoHs. Heck, battle classes don't even have to participate in the economy to out earn most crafters.

I'm not saying they should make leveling DoH faster or easier or anything like that. Just that they should have the same access to leves as other disciplines do.

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True that DoLs and Battle classes can vastly out earn DoHs except for the fact that eventually they will be buying their higher lvl gears from high lvl DoHs who made them with the mats they purchased off of the ones buying their gears...

Sure, Battle classes can just PL their way up to 45, go kill NMs and get mid lvl NM dropped gears without buying anything from crafters, but eventually they will be looking to 2x and 3x meld craft only gears.

I will agree that they should have the same access to leves as other disciplines but not the exact same leves... Afterall there is no way a crafter is going to do a battle leve. On the one hand, you are entirely right about Battle classes being able to easily out farm crafting classes.

On the other hand, I dont playing as a crafter only is the intention of this game - as much as i respect my fellow crafters- Yoshi P did say the idea the main story line would be experienced primarily through battle classes.

That being said, it seems odd to me that a crafter would not take the time to lvl at LEAST 1 Battle AND Gathering job to 50, afterall it would be purely to his/her advantage and would give them a means by which to farm the mats needed to support their craft which in turn can make the gear needed to support their Battle class ad infinum...

Well, the eventuality of leveling something else isn't an excuse for sheer dependence on it.

DoHs have to gain the same amount of experience points as do the other classes. Should they not have the same opportunities?

I would like to see Static Leve Choices for Disciples of the Hand too.

i.e. Level 34 Leatherworker is looking for Level 35~40 Leatherworking leves. Sometimes finds a handful of Level 20~25 leves. Instead of the level 30+ leve being sought after.

Example:
Level 34 Leatherworker, looks at Leatherworking leves, can see a range from Level 20, 25, 30, and 35. (haven't been to Gridania to see if there were 40, but haven't come across any in the other cities yet). Sometimes there are no Level 35 leves or 30 leves.

Versus Combat/Magic/Land.
Level 34 War/Magic, chooses a Level 30 leve, consistently gets three choices. Scales difficulty to 2 or 3 stars to make the leve more level-appropriate.
Level 34 Land, chooses a Level 30 leve, consistently gets two choices. No difficulty scaling.

These three do not have to worry about a Level 20 leve taking up space for one of their Level 30 leve choices.

Although if I look at it from a different standpoint, it makes more sense now why SE made their achievements the way they did. It's as if you were gathering even after you have significantly out-leveled an area, to the point where your crafts were taken to the next material.

There needs to be more "level me" recipes, I leveled carpenter from 6 to 17 all from producing elm lumber... lots and lots of elm lumber (boring but efficient). That I gathered myself, I had ~7 stacks of 99 elm. (I broke them a lot in the beginning but when you have 7 stacks you don't care..)

The rate of leveling for DoH, DoL is alright the issue is what kind of items drop from where. (The classes do not have to have similar level as long as they are supplying proportional crafting level items - amounts). Another post had a good point how 3 goes into 8, you cannot have the 3 rocket past the 8 unless SE wanted the players to "never" have a crafting economy (for raw items).

Gathering:
- include chain's (successes in a row, 5 successes could be +%50 exp)
- Once cast (gathering point search ability), gathering from those found points 200~ + yalms away should offer a bonus exp % (10-25%).

Crafting:
Instead of tree's dropping the gambit they should dedicate them more to wood - this will solve getting 4 classes ingredients at one location, while carpenter only get their ingredients from this one location. Tree -like- structures like cactus's of course still make sense to not relieve wood on successful gathering.

Add more plant types, mostly being dedicated to alchemy and culinary fixing the loss that would incur on these classes from above suggestion (and it makes more sense).

Make [crow] Feathers a bonus drop, if I ever cut down a tree i'd never throw my axe up at the nest above to get some feathers, if they come down they come down but do not make it a direct drop. I cry a little each time I see "feathers are dropped from cutting the tree, but no wood - 1 less gathering attempt for you~"

My craft rate(s) issues:

Each class has a different set of "level-crafts" and for the most part they are colliding and are too few, this makes leveling certain classes a loss for the other (goldsmith V blacksmith).

The above issue not huge by itself but is exasperated by the fact that there are (or at least were) a large amount of recipes that required neighboring crafts help.

They level extremely slow, again not an issue if it wasn't for the fact that leveling your main DoW or DoM with a DoH is almost pointless unless you are leveling very slowly or leveling many jobs along side your DoH (DoH has limited return to parallel leveled job). And because of above point of crafts requiring each other, it means leveling many DoW(s) and DoM(s) alongside DoH(s) - slowest leveling plan ever. This makes it so DoH will not be very helpful until much later as they do not scale well with the rate you level the other classes (unless you purposely create the appropriate scale).

Repairing at low levels is useless- 100 gil means nothing, or even 500 gil (just repair by NPC). Repairing items at higher levels, money saver. But you'll never be able to level at the appropriate rate until a few 50 DoW, and DoM later (unless you dedicate, or do the level everything at once plan - this is because each item has a different repair class).

Overall it demotes the motivation for crafting, not all issues may be issues in certain scenarios but the points must lend to each other not collide.

(difficulty != issue, good game-play != always difficult (or easy))

First of all i hate crafting, that being said i really think that not only crafters needs static leves to choose from at will, but i would like that the leve counter should deal with crafters like a real task agency, to be more clear if someone needs something they hire an agency that could get them the desired items, so in a few words leve counter as agency should give you the task and be the direct client of crafters so the crafter dont waste time delivering the product to the agency client, that in the first place the crafter shouldnt know the agency client, wheres the win-win situation there?

If we had leves that were only on cities i would use all my 99 leves on craft, and for regular crafts i would like to have a system where you can do several items at the same time as an option if you dont care about exp (maybe for crafters at 50) that just wants to craft stuff to sell.

As a leatherworker, the only reliable lvl40 Gridanian leve I was getting sent me to Nine Ivies. I tried doing Limsan leves, which gave me both a lvl40 and a lvl45 leve, but a lot of the time there was nothing in the lvl40+ category! I hated having to go back to lvl20-39 leves just for a CHANCE that the lvl40+ leves would pop up again. I agree that we need static leves or more leves, because DoH gets severely shafted.

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There needs to be more "level me" recipes, I leveled carpenter from 6 to 17 all from producing elm lumber... lots and lots of elm lumber (boring but efficient). That I gathered myself, I had ~7 stacks of 99 elm. (I broke them a lot in the beginning but when you have 7 stacks you don't care..)

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I agree on this point too. On my 41 Crp theres pretty much nothing but walnut masks all the way to 50. Especially with how long it takes to farm Rosewood. Walnut is just more efficient.