Savage difficulty for dungeons & harder 24 man raids

hey guys, I just wanted to post here because Yoshi and the team always tell us our feedback is appreciated and I wanted to get it out that people want harder content. I think a system like Mythic+ from WoW could work in 14, just at the current stage of the game, it should be minimal. I think it would be great for the community and help us come together a bit more to complete content if we could start "raiding" as a small 4 man group to obtain gear to help us with the 8 Man raids. My proposed version of 4 man savage dungeons would be to increase monster HP, DMG, and give them 1-2 new abilities/mechanics to dodge(bosses included). You could even add mechanics from the 8 man raids that players have problems with, to help prepare them for the 8man raiding a bit more. This way progression feels smooth, from 4man>8man>24man> and finally Ultimate being the greatest challenge for the most experienced players looking to take it a notch further.

This way it is easier for players to find like minded players and incentive for those who are afraid to raid, to give it a try. It is much easier to find 4 players, and it even makes finding 8 easier because 2 dungeon raiding teams can form together to try 8 man content. And with harder 24 man content, this also promotes the better raid groups to try to work together and form larger groups in attempt to clear content. This also gives players more to do within the game, especially those who are out of things to do, more variation is always good because it keeps your players interested and playing the game. It also wouldn't require too much effort from the developers because they could use a similar formula to Ultimate content, just recycle old content and breathe fresh air into it by making it more difficult and adding a couple pieces of gear like belts & accessories to a weekly chest/ book page at the end of the dungeon.

Of course there are plenty of people who will still be afraid of all of this, or people who just dont want it because the game is casual, but I think it is very important that you make content geared for both and find a way to bridge the gap. I don't want to be too specific and say this is EXACTLY how they should do it or what not, I just want SE to know that we are interested in harder content! so hopefully you will post your ideas or at least agree/disagree here :) thanks for reading!

It sounds similar to nightfalls from Destiny 1, which are souped up versions of strikes.

I could see them reusing dungeons and giving them that Palace of the Dead vibe with enchantments and spoils that can make or break a run. Each week would be a different dungeon. Enemies could be replaced with those from Coil, with higher HP. Old bosses have new mechanics to look out for too.

Drops would have to be comparable to Savage otherwise people probably won't play it. I think it would be a nice stepping stone for people who don't do hardcore raid or at least a meaningful alternative.

I dont have a problem with this...I do have a problem with randoms being a (insert insulting term) about things. That is why I do not like doing random roulettes. Just today my FC leader remarked that half the people ditched ranbanste(sp?) raid after 1 bloody wipe.

Seriously.... people are stupid.

The problem I have with the game is that harder content just means one hit kills. They need to find another way to make the game harder before they start doing that in 4 man and 24 man raids. 24 man raids is already problematic considering the difficulty of coordinating mechanics for 8. But to do it with 3 separate parties as well and where any screw up will basically wipe everyone, it's just going to be a pain for many people because there are three times as many people and will make it so that it is at least 10 times easier to screw up.

I like the idea of making content more difficult. I would rather them make all content more difficult rather just adding a savage level difficulty to 4 man content. Adding savage level content means more weekly resets. More weekly resets means you will have even less people trying the content. Less people trying the content means they will have less to do in the game. This will lead to people leaving the game.

Adding savage level content to 8 man content is ok, since they already have that in the game. I would personally like to have a savage level primals of ARR content. Savage Titan sound like a fun time and something I would like do, since it was challenging the first time extreme came out in ARR.

I just want to have savage 24 mans for the original CT. So many people I know never got to experience that.


Having some redone old dungeons would be fun too....But not a savage. I actually like Tracewood's idea.

Considering 24-man groups are made of all type of players, making it harder will just be a mess.
So even though i sometimes like more difficult content, i feel like these raids should remain like this.
I don't want to endlessly wipe on it, especially if I'm going to go again for my gear or a glamour or whatever.

As for the "savage" 4-man content, it could however be cool.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Considering 24-man groups are made of all type of players, making it harder will just be a mess.
So even tough i sometimes like more difficult content, i feel like these raids should remain like this.
I don't want to endlessly wipe on it, especially if I'm going to go again for my gear or a glamour or whatever.

As for the "savage" 4-man content, it could however be cool.

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I disagree with making it a mess. the normal content is already a mess. Labeling it as "Savage" or "Ultimate" is enough to discourage most people. And adding a difficulty would leave the normal as is so if you just want to cheese through it you can. But alot of people want to experience the old raids prior to gear making them completely obsolete. So we can definitely have both. :D

It's like adding savage 4 man content if they reused old dungeons would not make those obsolete.

Harder difficultly dungeons, balanced somewhere between 24-man and savage, would be fantastic.

How they do it is up to them, however personally I'd like to see a rolling 'dungeon challenge' where every month or two a revamped* dungeon is introduced to the rotation with another falling off (with 2-4 at any one time). Each challenge dungeon would be able to be completed for rewards once per week. Rewards would be capped tomestones and a chance at a single piece of capped tomestone gear or an upgrade token (like the coins from the 24-man).

Challenge dungeons would be designed for pre-made groups (so no duty finder) and timing of introduction for a new 'tier' would be similar to that of savage raids. Also, as a twist, they could include optional bonus objectives, like side-bosses, a time limit, or 'no death', the completion of which would grant extra rewards (e.g. more tomes), or additional chances at rewards (e.g. an extra chest).

* Revamped dungeons would make use of old assets and layouts, but remix them with new mechanics and difficulty appropriate to the current gear level (e.g. ~320 for patch 4.0-4.1)

I think if they could do some kiind of old ARR content reworked a bit, so it fits level 70, it could do the trick. I mean, it is one thing going synced for such content, and another when you go level 70. Minimum IL, unfortunately, removes a lot of skills from our rotations, and i think, aside from synced old content being not rewarding, is one of the reason why barely anybody will even use Minimum IL option

Good idea, but if you are going to add 24-man raids you HAVE to make the loot only available at the end. Many people already grab loot at first or second boss in Rab then quickly bounce. So Acidblood's premade idea would work quite well.

You want to put a 24-man Savage-esque raid in the DF..? Really? Really? o.o

Yeah... based on what tends to happen even 2 hours after the weekly reset for Rabanastre? Savage 24 man would be an unmitigated nightmare.
It'd be pretty much an FC or LS only thing too given how hard coordinating 24 people would be.

All for harder dungeon tiers though. As long as at least some facet of the enemy encounters was different. Just trawling through the same mobs and bosses using the same tactics but tankier doesn't sound that appealing.

Can't even get hard mode versions of all dungeons (Dzemael Darkhold hard will live on in my dreams) and you want savage versions? I'd be down with that because it might finally be the fun version of some of those dungeon.

Hard mode 24-mans sounds kind of cool especially if it's something as faceroll as the Crystal Tower raids. Finally got into alliance raids back when alliance roulette became a thing and they're just a drag.

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Originally Posted by SilentVoice

I think if they could do some kiind of old ARR content reworked a bit, so it fits level 70, it could do the trick. I mean, it is one thing going synced for such content, and another when you go level 70. Minimum IL, unfortunately, removes a lot of skills from our rotations, and i think, aside from synced old content being not rewarding, is one of the reason why barely anybody will even use Minimum IL option

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I agree with this. I think maybe making the original boss mechanics a little bit more difficult, adding in an extra mech or two, as well as having updated versions of the CT gear would be awesome! The orginal fights now are inanely simple.

Bring on the hard mode for 24 mans! Please!