Regarding Player Casinos

so lately i started player casino on my server. stating this

"/shout Menphina Casino is open for Business! bet 50k-500k and /random win x2 on 650+ and above, x3 on 950+ and above, and x7 on 999. Test your luck! see Katarina near Aetheryte."

now i checked forums and everything and this is not considered wrong on any levels.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...inos-Lotteries

forum here says this is a form of trade agreement and is not bad, some players are not fond of me doing this but i ignore them.

now all the trades that happen are 100% honest with winners getting back bonus gil from /random. can i continue doing this from time to time or not? cause the moderator stated this is perfectly fine in the post above

Mathematically you are ripping people off, but people still seem to not understand that despite the several posts that pointed it out. It's their money to throw away carelessly, so if they are in agreement (which they are), and they're not putting in any other items (which they're not), then it's 'fine'.

Uh... I think this is against TOS. I remember people doing that when /random was introduced first and GMs told everyone to stop doing that as some people were doing straight up RMT with it.

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Originally Posted by Aronys

Uh... I think this is against TOS. I remember people doing that when /random was introduced first and GMs told everyone to stop doing that as some people were doing straight up RMT with it.

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it was in ff11 as ppl were doing serious scam trading, in ff14 It at most looked down on, if anything. Pretty much if you loose, or get scamed gm can't help out out if you do a casino. It is a risk.

@ op

best thing to do is contact a gm, and ask for a supervisor.

This was done constantly in XI, it wasn't against ToS there as it was non stop by the same few people. No one was ever banned from it over the years I played unless they were able to constantly reroll the same character name with instant 75 status.

Don't see it here much (thankfully) as it was very annoying in XI. If you are /sh or /s spamming I know its a good way to get yourself blisted by a whole lot of people in a very short time. So not sure if the risk is worth the reward if you are a super social player who likes to do stuff with pugs on your server.

I see them often in Limsa and Kugane on our server, trying to lure in newbies with big numbers and riches. Subsequently, I did mute them - Bad enough I have to do that on RMT's, now I need to be wary for these guys, too.

Unless something changes with RMT spam, then I think my answer would have to be no. As in the end the extra spam from casinos would just wind me up and I would end up reporting casinos too. On top of this we would have RMT casinos, players ripping other players off, fake dcs etc.

It may not be against TOS, but that makes it no less annoying.

in FFXI, many "player" did this casino thing in jeuno (for those who know),
for a time you could see, tons of those "casino player" idea was simple, they bet some gils, roll, if the number is lower or higher than a set number = game over

but then one day Nothing !! no more casino player !!
simple, they all had been perma banned from the game

so my advice

do it at your own risk, in ff11 ppl were getting perma banned for doing Something like this,
i wouldnt be surprised if it happen to you to if you do it ...

Just because something is legal, it doesn't mean it's necessarily ethically correct. The FFXIV team has been very careful in the way the Gold Saucer was implemented, to ensure it does not become a casino. So, you can expect that, in principle a player casino would also be frowned upon.

It could simply be the case that the scenario was not forseen, and hence not written into the ToS.

But, as is always the case, there will always be people keen to exploit legal loopholes to their benefit. Given that there is little that can be done to enforce against such activity, it boils down to a case of willing seller, willing buyer.

In any case, as a community, I feel we should strongly discourage this.

If nothing else it's the quickest way onto my blacklist, so take your chances I guess.

Depends 100% on the GM responding to anyone who chooses to report you really. Different GM's deal with things in different ways so luck of the draw on any rule or regulation as they dont seem to be consistent.

Terms of service section 3. Prohibited Activities

3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.

Before you say it is just a game those dont count, keep in mind the lengths games have gone to avoid gambling being listed or taking part on their games (see pokemon and the removal of their gambling area or FFXI's mog-bonanza changes). In some places, any form of gambling is illegal and it only takes 1 GM to take a complaint seriously whether the person is truly insulted or just tired of your ads to spin a tale and them to issue a suspension or termination of service.

It will depend 100% on how many different GM's look at this and decide it falls into it. So really it is just a game of whack-a-mole. I dont care either way I just blacklist casino's and move on but your mileage may vary.

do what you want, I blacklist these people and the ones playing and move on with my life.

Since we don't know, when I see a player casino I make a report and hope a GM will look into it.

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Originally Posted by Yurimi

3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.

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Inappropriate Behavior
Behavior intended to prevent or hinder other players from fully enjoying the game is prohibited. While SQUARE ENIX encourages unique play styles, SQUARE ENIX may penalize players who hinder or diminish the quality of gameplay for others through inappropriate behavior. Examples of inappropriate behavior include,but are not limited to, spamming, gridlocking, and fraud:

· Fraud. Fraud is an act of deception intended to deprive a player of his or her full enjoyment of the game or a player’s property. Fraud occurs most often in agreements between players for trade, loot, or betting:
o Trade fraud: Fraud relating to the exchange of items or in-game services.
o Loot fraud:Fraud relating to loot distribution.
o Bet fraud:Fraud relating to the gambling of gil or other possessions on the outcomes of in-game events. (Please note that gambling on the outcomes of events outside of the game, or the gambling of anything other than in-game gil or possessions, is strictly prohibited.)

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Simply said, you're allowed to do so as long as you keep it fair, not take the Gil only and rip off other Players.

^ I was going to post that. It’s perfectly legal.

Some are getting confused with FFXI. Let me clarify something: the P.R in FFXI was atrocious. The vast majority of players who would run /random casinos were NA/EU players, and the Japanese did not like it. The reason was simple (and lamented on popular sites like Bluegartr): gambling is illegal in Japan. Thus, one day people started getting suspended and banned for shouting in Jueno, the main plaza hub for its time. There was nothing in the ToS that prevented gambling, outside that Square could ban your account for anything they want. Further more, Square never made an official announcement about it either.

Secondly, I don’t understand the outrage of random casinos in this game. A fool will part with their money one way or another. What’s the issue with gambling it away? I’ve never held a casino in 11 or 14, nor do I gamble in game or real life, but if it’s in the realm of fair play.... then go for it?

Stop saying it's illegal or against ToS. It's not. Anything else regarding it being annoying or tasteless is purely opinion. I don't have a problem with them but I have no intention of participating either.

While it might be legal the spamming of chat becomes very annoying and is worse than what you get from the RMT advertisers.

Blacklisting all this casinos. People who fall into and and loose all their gil deserved it, but this scummers are even worse. Gambling should be forbidden in game.

So I think that's your answer.

Illegal? No. While everything in a game is subjective and you never know what GM is going to decide to do what (we've all seen random reports of people 'wrongfully' banned), as long as you're being fair, you should be fine. (Be mindful, however, that it also means that since what you're trading can't be verified, it's not against the realm of possibility that someone unhappy with their losses might try to report you as cheating/defrauding them of their money; that's conjecture, however, so take it as you will.)

Widely accepted/approved? Not really. You'll probably get on a lot of blacklists, and should you ever go looking to join groups and the like, that may follow you/affect you. It may not. Some people care a lot, some people don't care at all.

Take it as you will, I don't think any of us can give you a definitive answer one way or another since we're all at the eventual mercy of SE and their GMs. We can only give you our interpretations and opinions.

I love player Run Casinos!!! Thanks for running them!
It adds more content to the game, and some fun!

The people who would blist someone over an occasional shout for that, are probably terrible to run content with anyways haha
I just imagine them twirling their twisty moustaches while saying "harrumph, people having fun, how disgusting. "

I've seen them before and I think it's fun, and a nice distraction sometimes. Not all player casinos have the same rules, but it should be expected that the house has an edge. They are risking their money after all.

Good Luck, and may the odds be ever in your favor!!

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Originally Posted by KingMeteo

I love player Run Casinos!!! Thanks for running them!
It adds more content to the game, and some fun!

The people who would blist someone over an occasional shout for that, are probably terrible to run content with anyways haha
I just imagine them twirling their twisty moustaches while saying "harrumph, people having fun, how disgusting. "

I've seen them before and I think it's fun, and a nice distraction sometimes. Not all player casinos have the same rules, but it should be expected that the house has an edge. They are risking their money after all.

Good Luck, and may the odds be ever in your favor!!

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As a player you have a 2:3 chance to lose, 1:3 to win, 1:9 for the bonus, and 1:999 for the jackpot. On the off chance that you do win a given roll, the house only loses the amount of money you bet because the bonus is statistically unlikely and I'd consider the jackpot statistically impossible. Factually speaking, the only risk for the house is the very, very unlikely chance that someone will get the best possible outcome after making an insane bet. However, that's why the game is rigged in the way it is. The house only pays out if you win, but you pay out every single bet. If you want to gamble money "for fun", I would suggest you play the market instead. Up-selling has more favorable odds, better risk management, and doesn't leave you with nothing when you lose.

P.S. I'm the kind of person who explains how bad the odds are when gambling and immediately wins the jackpot. It's like the universe is mocking me. :(

I am saying that not all player casinos follow those specific rules.
I've seen some that are over 500 win, under 500 lose

You guys are painting all casinos as the exact same, and acting like there is only one type.

Also there are other games like:
1-300 rock 301-600 paper 601-900 scissors, over 901 reroll/or house wins
So it's a rock paper scissors

then there is Even numbers win/ Odd numbers lose, then double or nothing

Chinchinron style roll 5 times first number counts only (so 123 counts as a 1) no pairs loses pairs win 2x, triples 3x, quads 4x, 5 of a kind wins 5x
or alternate rules, each player rolls 5 times first number only, best hand wins 6's are high A la Poker

There are many more. Imagination and game design can vary greatly, how the game works and how fun it is.
So as I said, Please keep up the great work casino runners of Eorzea!

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Originally Posted by KingMeteo

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Its all still gambling and still disgusting thing created by clever people to make money from not-so-clever-people.

It's not against tos but if you are really wanting to make a casino then do it in a private estate and make a real go of it... you can then advertise it on the forums or Reddit or whatever... for the love of the twelve tho don't spam shout it

This thread is nice to follow because it also outlines how people feel about the use of shout. Kind of like a nice outline of what people feel are acceptable behavior.

As for the topoc: No, ai don’t think gambling is okay, but that’s up to SE to decide.

There's nothing wrong with gambling, so long as the person doesn't make others believe that they have the edge. Gambling is actually part of everyday life for everybody, to a lesser or greater extent. Whenever you choose to buy something in a shop, you gamble, cause you could have bought that or a better equivalent at a different shop. When you're switching jobs, you gamble, cause the new work can be far worse.

However, gambling with "win all or lose all" is something that should be made by people that understand the concept of "value". If I buy a lottery ticket, I assume that I won't get back the money I spent on it, and the fun is simply in the gamble. At that point, it is no different than spending your money on a movie or something like that. A moment of fun and nothing to show for it afterwards.

Gambling is not, however, a way to "earn money", unless it is skill-based (poker games for example, that mix fair odds with skills that can make them better or worse for the player at hand). It should not be taken as such. Money that goes into gambling should "buy" the excitement, not the reward. The reward is just the bonus, not the other way around.

As for "spamming"...making a message about such "casino" here or there is not spamming. It is no different than "John Doe: Yippe! I got extra cheese on my pizza!". Something that you may or may not be interested in. If you're not, don't participate. It would be spamming if it would be done repeatedly in a short amount of time. People really get oversensitive nowadays...

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Originally Posted by kikix12

It would be spamming if it would be done repeatedly in a short amount of time. People really get oversensitive nowadays...

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Every casino I've run into on my system advertises over and over. If people are playing add in "So and so has rolled a number and wins/loses x gil". Not being overly sensitive at all. If you are have an area wide chat you miss half of what is being said due to the casino spam. If they went private it would be a different story ut then again they wouldn't get much advertising that way.

Can I just find one that does Triple Triad gambling? The only action I get anymore is from tournaments. I would like to play humans for gil.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

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It was added to the tos around between 2009-2010. treasures 4th patch was out, and talks of abbysea was about.

Mostly because gm were getting mass reports about gil scams from the casino. they stopped around abysse addon 1.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

Every casino I've run into on my system advertises over and over.

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That is on the person, not on the whole "casino" thing. And yes, it is oversensitiveness, at least in some cases. There were multiple people in this thread that said they blacklist the person the first time they advertise that casino of theirs. And there was even someone that said they instantly blacklist the players as well.

I can understand that if someone is spamming whatever repeatedly, that it is disruptive. But one needs to also know that "gambling" is a form of chat as well. It's no different from players role-playing stuff...except there are more people that don't care about it at all. Though it should be kept to a reasonable degree and there is no need to use Shout chat if all the players are right next to the "casino", where Say would suffice.

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

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talked to the gm myself in ff11, they said it was against tos. It was more then 1 gm. Also again was added to tos much like MPK around the late game just b4 ff14s 1.0 launch.

I could be miss remembering, but i recall a POL message about it years ago. Due to the large spam, and scam reports from them.

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Originally Posted by N_Kyong

Pretty much like in other MMOs online gamble and all what has to do with RMT is pretty much against the law in pretty much every country around the world.

So, no. We don´t need online gambling or casino with RMT involved.

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That wasn't the Point of the Thread. The OP asked if he could make use of a Casino Ingame which is allowed regarding the ToS.
There is a difference if you Gamble with Real Life Money or plainly just Ingame Currency, one is forbidden in different Countries, while the other can't be forbidden at a Point.

About RMT being against the Law, there is no Law against it, it is a Agreement that everyone of us accepted, which Square Enix set up of course.

This also does not fall under the Catigory RMT, as you simply can't control which Player has bought Gil beforehand which they use to Gamble.
This is like saying :

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"Selling Clears for 50-100M Gil should be forbidden aswell, RMT is definitely included!"

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

talked to the gm myself in ff11, they said it was against tos. It was more then 1 gm. Also again was added to tos much like MPK around the late game just b4 ff14s 1.0 launch.

I could be miss remembering, but i recall a POL message about it years ago. Due to the large spam, and scam reports from them.

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I’m talking circa 2005-2006 during the mass RMT ban, which included casinos. Simply put, it was not in the TOS and they added it much later (in detail) around 2009.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Though it should be kept to a reasonable degree and there is no need to use Shout chat if all the players are right next to the "casino", where Say would suffice.

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Shout or Say still clutters up chat. As I said it wouldn't bother me if it were in private. Another alternative would be to create a market chat channel for people who want to sell a service or product.

As far as adding to blacklist I've done it for a few players who seem to run the most casino's and spam their runs. I haven't blacklisted any casino players as they don't spam stuff to chat not to mention the BL would be full in no time.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

Shout or Say still clutters up chat. As I said it wouldn't bother me if it were in private. Another alternative would be to create a market chat channel for people who want to sell a service or product.

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Everything that you are not participating in clutters chat. It's not about it being something you want or not. I said that one should use whatever chat is least "wide" for fulfilling whatever duty the message is supposed to fulfill.

For people that don't hunt, hunt calls are "cluttering their chat" just as well. But I don't see anyone complaining about someone making a shout "X is at Y, A rank!" and then posting stuff like "Pull at 6:50", "Anyone coming?!".

It's all about being reasonable. It's an MMO game and there is 0% chance of you not coming across chat that you are not interested in...unless you turn off ALL chats. Yes, even party and free company. Heck, even then, you'll still get system messages that you may not want, some can't be turned off. The question is, whether the person does not interrupt the chat in excess, aka. posting more often than an average person would while having a perfectly normal chat. The topic, theme of the chat, is irrelevant in this case (so long as it's within the rules/law).

I don't know, nor do I care, about whether you in particular are oversensitive or not. I know for a fact that the amount of people that are oversensitive in comparison to those that are not that I met in this game is significantly higher than the ration of the same ten years back in a different game. A game where "Market Chat" was almost literally never stopping with all manners of discussion (trade included). It may just be "my luck", it may be an actual change in the personality of the gaming populace...I don't care either way. It is purely opinion and I know better than to expect anyone caring about it, let alone changing themselves, assuming they even would consider themselves oversensitive in the first place. Nearly all of em would say that they're not if asked, I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

I’m talking circa 2005-2006 during the mass RMT ban, which included casinos. Simply put, it was not in the TOS and they added it much later (in detail) around 2009.

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im talking 2009-2011-2013 ish :) 2011-2013 was the last time i logged in to ff11.

I just encountered one of these players trying to run their own casino using /random and felt like asking the person a few questions. I was told that the player had talked to the GM about it and that this activity was allowed. I didn't want to get into a debate about it right there. so, here I am trying to figure out how this not violate ToS and how to ask the GM for clarification on the issue.

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Originally Posted by Luna_K

how to ask the GM for clarification on the issue.

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Main Menu -> Support Desk -> Contact Us -> Report Harassment

Ask your questions and they should get back to you.