Does everyone agree that 3.xx DRK was WAY BETTER than 4.xx DRK?

Self explanatory but will elaborate further if necessary; was 3.xx DRK more balance than 4.xx DRK and did cross class give an idea of kind of tank DRK would be in 3.xx? Or are people still trying to convince themselves DRK is fine...? I honestly was of the people who took the balance changes with a grain of salt but said salt was enough to put me into a state of shock as to how bad DRK really was once I hit level 70 endgame... Also 1 of those early access Stormblood players so.... yeah... enough salt to fill Ilberd's grave... maybe even Y'shtola's grave if she tries to tank a hit from a obvious DPS beast... AGAIN!!!


UPDATE: I also forgot to mention PVP 3.xx DRK over PVP 4.xx DRK and if it's better or worse, for frontlines it's obviously worse with the idea about 1v1 or 4v4 but that's assuming way more factors are in play(i.e. someone is getting into PVP for the first time and might be discouraged by the number of bots in PVP in Frontlines because PVP is so boring it's better to watch a bunch of bots play PVP)

I miss the defensive kit we had and how our dps combo wasn't "SoUL EaTEr aLl tEh ThInGS"

Nah, HW DRK was a badly designed, unbalanced mess.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Nah, HW DRK was a badly designed, unbalanced mess.

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Just like 4.x's badly designed, unbalanced mess.

I prefer 3.x's mess way more than 4.x's personally.

I want DRK 3.x back, but with all the current skills and rotations of SB honestly. I stopped playing DRK because it's a joke compared to PLD and WAR now in content. Or at least, it feels that way from dungeon pulls to endgame stuff. :l

was a pretty good tank on HW so well designed for no say the best of the 3, not overpowered, not underpowered, was the ideal tank, no trash skills (except grit) strong points and fair weak points, fluid, faster, i miss old darkside mp managment, i dont say actual DRK is bad, i actually enjoy it but miss the sinergy the old one have now all was standardized.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Nah, HW DRK was a badly designed, unbalanced mess.

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Would you play Stormblood DRK over Heavensward DRK? I'm honestly waiting for switchaxe glamour for both DRK and WAR so I can finally have an excuse to play WAR... if you played Monster Hunter games you would know what I am talking about...

I don't think any job was better in the past because we got sweet new moves like Bloodspiller and The Blackest Night. But I can agree that some of the stuff they removed was actually good. For DRK it probably wouldn't be very hard to improve the balance but they have their reasons I guess for not making adjustments yet. There probably should have been an official response on the forums to the large volume of DRK feedback they received.

You had more buttons to push. That's about it.

All I ask is the ability to use SCYTHES as a weapon rather than a glamour on the DRK class. And get rid of or at least adjust the GSWORD or Scythe options on the class. I miss my old Scythe from XI. Q_Q rip Apoc/Liberator </3

I play with gamepad and full WXHB on PS4 so I'm using up to 32 buttons(yes I am serious; yes this was on DRK when WXHB became a thing; yes I got good with with practice; no I did not clear any savage content that was relevant at the time or EX fights that were also relevant at the time, but I cleared Odin on DRK synced before knowing that un-synced was a thing but I would prefer to do old content synced... but we need EX Trial roulette and 8 player raid roulette for that to happen and let's be real, they would rather have people do it un-synced so they can keep making Ultimate level fights...

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

All I ask is the ability to use SCYTHES as a weapon rather than a glamour on the DRK class. And get rid of or at least adjust the GSWORD or Scythe options on the class. I miss my old Scythe from XI. Q_Q rip Apoc/Liberator </3

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No scythes, I would rather have switchaxe for both DRK and WAR... though greatswords that look like scythes would be acceptable...

I prefer HW Drk for a lot of reasons:

- You had far greater reward with great risk compared to the other tanks (using DA for damage instead of defense)
- Better tools to utilize in raid (Reprisal/Delirium + Storms Path was amazing)
- Class had better flow to it vs what we have in SB now
- Had a lot more complexity vs the other 2 tanks which made it more of a challenge
- Blood Price outside of Grit was super fun doing massive pulls in dungeons with Blood Weapon + Abyssal
- Dark Passenger was actually used, paired with DA + Dark Dance felt great, hell even just using Dark Passenger OGCD was better than what we have now
- If you lost Darkside that was on you and making sure you had enough MP at all times was a great feeling vs now you can hit 0 MP and still have Darkside

Drks just a shell of what it used to be which is a shame still my favorite class but I prefer HW Drk over SB Drk any day.

There were some parts I figured I'd miss from 3.xx DRK that I actually haven't, like Delirium (especially if our mana generation during Grit were toned back so we could remove DA from Syphon).

But that still leaves a lot that I have missed noticeably.

I think 3.x DRK had some design problems / things that make no sense but was overall decent enough. 4.x DRK has some different design problems / things that make no sense, but ultimately you're spamming Dark Arts on basically everything with the MP flowing in and no zero MP penalties. I really don't like the DA design of hitting it all the time because if you hit something basically all the time, it doesn't really have much meaning when you hit it. In a perfect world, I'd imagine DA as something you carefully choose and something that burns a metric ton of MP for drastic effect which is better than just hitting it all the time just because you have to spend the MP somewhere, somehow.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Would you play Stormblood DRK over Heavensward DRK? I'm honestly waiting for switchaxe glamour for both DRK and WAR so I can finally have an excuse to play WAR... if you played Monster Hunter games you would know what I am talking about...

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Well every weapon class in MH is well designed and fun to play so whenever XIV decides to make classes diverse and fun I'm all for it.

When MH World comes out on PC I'll be all over it for a few months.

I prefer the feel of 4.X DRK over 3.X. I personally felt the job was so much more clunky and messy than it is now.

I do feel that it still needs adjustments but I like how it currently feels.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Fury

I prefer the feel of 4.X DRK over 3.X. I personally felt the job was so much more clunky and messy than it is now.

I do feel that it still needs adjustments but I like how it currently feels.

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3.xx was on the right track with DRK as a tank until media tour stuff happened which raises the question; WHY DIDN'T ANYONE COMPLAIN ABOUT IT WHEN MEDIATOUR INFO DROPPED!?!?!!!? I will admit I was 1 of those people who was dumb enough to not to voice my concern but if I had the option to play DRK on FF14 or something that was just as cool as DRK in theme but WAY BETTER mechanically, I would prefer to go with the latter UNLESS NAOKI YOSHIDA LEVELS DRK FROM 30 TO 70 MAINS IT UNTIL 3 MONTHS AFTER 4.2 HAS LAUNCHED, STARTING WITH DAY 1 OF 4.2 AND SAYS "Yeah, the playerbase is actually right... We need to fix DRK NOW" I will refuse to pay for a sub/gametime card... 3.xx DRK is way more fun than the shitstain that is 4.xx DRK...

I prefer 3.X DRK over 3.X.

3.X DRK got some problems, some of them were carried over SB, but ultimately, it was flowing swiflty when mastered. It was a very satisfying job, with a high APM, and a constant need of making decisions in order to balance our ressource usage according to our needs. Using it agressively felt really good, and the rewards for the risk the class got were high enough to make it feeling good. The impact of Dark Arts was greater, because every skill it modified got different effect, all more or less usefull in the long run.
I felt in love with 3.X DRK, it was the hardest Tank to master, but it was worth it for me. I was expecting Square Enix to build on the foundations of 3.X DRK, this storm of MP mixing offense and defense you had to learn to control in order to be effective, with a high skill celling, and a fast paced gamestyle. I was expecting them to continue on the agile feeling the class got.

I was disapointed. 4.X DRK is more clunky in my opinion. SE tried to streamline the class, make it easier, and while it's definitely easier to play, they also made it pretty much unfun to play before lv 68. The blood gauge works, but still feels a bit tacked on, and the MP management is uninteresting now that there is no drawback to spend it all. The nerfs of some skills are bothering, Dark Passenger is now basically useless, and on the defensive side, DRK is weak. The real problem is that the philosophy of risk for reward don't work well with 4.X skillset, we do a lot for a disappointing result, and it's frustrating. There is potential... But as of now, while it's still the Tank I have the more fun with, it's pardoxically also the most frustrating.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Well every weapon class in MH is well designed and fun to play so whenever XIV decides to make classes diverse and fun I'm all for it.

When MH World comes out on PC I'll be all over it for a few months.

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Xiv is also a much different kind of game than MH, and with much different goals too.

On topic, I think overall I do prefer 3.x drk. Lining up offensive cds and keeping scourge up was more fun for me than what we had now. Mainly I miss scourge's animation...oh well.

I prefer 4.0 DRK. I know it needs help but the core of it I enjoy. I just miss Scourge and Reprisal, but Bloodspiller is so satisfying to me, way more than Carve and Spit was and I like TBN.

TBH? 4.0 DRK is way more fun.

That said, it does deserve a bit more love to be able to stand out... primarily, Scourge should be brought back. Perhaps make it a combo finisher, like Goring Blade?

That said, it wouldn't hurt DRK to have SOME way of catching up to the others DPS wise, since it's objectively the weakest. Perhaps something to help its defensive game as well (Perhaps a Dark Arts'd The Blackest Night would be a 5% damage barrier to self and allies in a radius?)

Bonus points if they reimplement Scourge and make it a combo finisher: Give Dark Arts the opportunity to turn it into a damage buff instead. Call the buff "Scourge Weapon" or something.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

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It's just my opinion. I swapped to SMN main in 3.X cause DRK felt clunky. Now I main DRK again cause I like it.

As I mentioned though, I feel it needs slight buffs to bring it up to the other tanks. I'm happy with how it plays otherwise minus a few 3.x mechanics that carried over e.g lolsurvivor

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Fury

It's just my opinion. I swapped to SMN main in 3.X cause DRK felt clunky. Now I main DRK again cause I like it.

As I mentioned though, I feel it needs slight buffs to bring it up to the other tanks. I'm happy with how it plays otherwise minus a few 3.x mechanics that carried over e.g lolsurvivor

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I just updated my Personal wishlist for DRK changes for 4.2 if you want to check that out.... http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-at-patch-4.2
Also I can't argue with someone switching to SMN main in 3.x for how they felt for for DRK which I will agree was kinda clunky but once you figured what worked and what didn't it was REALLY FUN!

3.x drk was a clunky complicated mess with its own mechanics working against it.

4.x simplified and streamlined the mess in to a much more clear and coherent design that functions way better.

Now drk has issues, I mained it when stormblood dropped but my static had me swap to pld for prog. I can definitely say the design isn’t perfect but it’s a step in the right direction.

The hp drain from souleater is a great idea, drk should have always been the go drain from the very beginning. It needs more utility, more emphasis on the hp drain (as in it should work outside grit) and maybe step back from “dark arts literally everything.”

I am all for the increased use of dark arts, I argued it should be a greater used tool, but twice in one combo or having to use it 3-4 times in row when spiller, souleater, and C&S line up is kind of annoying.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I don't think any job was better in the past because we got sweet new moves like Bloodspiller and The Blackest Night. But I can agree that some of the stuff they removed was actually good. For DRK it probably wouldn't be very hard to improve the balance but they have their reasons I guess for not making adjustments yet. There probably should have been an official response on the forums to the large volume of DRK feedback they received.

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To be fair, those abilities are somewhat offset by what was lost. Scourge had a 500 total potency whereas Bloodspiller only has 400 base; 540 with Dark Arts. That is a straight up loss. The Blackest Night may be better overall but Old Reprisal offered better raid mitigation, albeit less reliably. In terms of damage, HW Dark Knight did substantially more if you apply SB scaling. Playstyle wise is more subjective, though I prefer the more emphasised risk/reward factor that now feels gutted. Darkside serves no purpose and has become button bloat, Dark Passenger is worthless, and the entire job revolves around spamming Dark Arts. I still enjoy Dark Knight, it just lost its identity.

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Originally Posted by Awful

I prefer HW Drk for a lot of reasons:

- You had far greater reward with great risk compared to the other tanks (using DA for damage instead of defense)
- Better tools to utilize in raid (Reprisal/Delirium + Storms Path was amazing)
- Class had better flow to it vs what we have in SB now
- Had a lot more complexity vs the other 2 tanks which made it more of a challenge
- Blood Price outside of Grit was super fun doing massive pulls in dungeons with Blood Weapon + Abyssal
- Dark Passenger was actually used, paired with DA + Dark Dance felt great, hell even just using Dark Passenger OGCD was better than what we have now
- If you lost Darkside that was on you and making sure you had enough MP at all times was a great feeling vs now you can hit 0 MP and still have Darkside

Drks just a shell of what it used to be which is a shame still my favorite class but I prefer HW Drk over SB Drk any day.

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Pretty much this. I'm not a big fan of the spammy nature of SB DRK. The tools and the flow of the job felt great in HW. Not to say the job was perfect, did have several core issues to it, and I was hoping that SB would improve those issues, but instead felt like they gutted a lot of the fun out of it, and it feels a lot more clunky. Only reason I still play it is because it is still more fun than either WAR or PLD to me, just wish they didn't take a lot of what I thought was fun away.

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Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

I miss the defensive kit we had and how our dps combo wasn't "SoUL EaTEr aLl tEh ThInGS"

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You forget "Spamming DA".

I miss Scourge too, whatever others say...

I really liked using Dark Dance with Dark Arts in large trash pulls after Blood Price runs out back in Heavensward.

However, I like how versatile Dark Arts is when usable with many attacks in Stormblood.

Tough call for me there.

This begs the question..

If they brought back 3.X DRK playstyle but it was still behind PLD and WAR dps/utility wise, would current DRKs be satisfied with that?

But either way..

I personally didn't care too much for 3.X DRK. It was a tank trying to be as complicated as a dps. I can see how some people liked that playstyle, just wasn't for me. As I tank (at least in raid) I feel responsible for stuff like calling out mechanics and watching for/correcting peoples screw ups, I ain't got time for micromanaging my MP drain and all that nonsense. I had fun leveling DRK up to 70, I certainly found it much easier to play effectively, but after the being disappointed with their defensive abilities compared to WAR, there's no real amount of "fun" they can add to make me forget how weak they are comparatively. That needs to be fixed before I ever consider picking the greatsword back up.

I really don't understand how it's that difficult to make all 3 tanks relatively equal when it comes to defense, utility and damage. That should be the main priority, once you solve that equation it seems like it'd be easier to design each tank with it's own flair to be unique, so people can play whichever they actually find the most fun and not worry about having enough defense/utility/damage compared to another class. The tank role itself is too important to be given anything less.

Don't Miss:

• Darkside drain. It added very little anyways, as they never actually brought this to a point where Darkside was worth toggling mid-combat except to prep for AoE during HS-SS spam.
• Delirium. I don't especially care that we lost RoH, SP, DK, or Del's minor status effects. Had they been reworked into suppression potency or the like, then sure, but their value felt too dependent on enemy strength and their use too automatic to feel impactful in their own right. Similarly, we didn't particularly need a third combo ender in the state it was already in, seeing as so little of our time was spend in Grit and thereby SE was never a decision separable from DA.

Issues Now:

• Cluttered weaving. Mostly due to excessive mana generation, especially through Grit SS and the inflated BW, and DA-SS.
• Darkside. May as well be a passive trait at this point. There is zero interaction here, except to be dropped during downtime long enough to outpace its reapplication cost. Mana buffs are deflected, rather than nullified by tick, so they cannot be banked, and the damage bonus percentage is too large to ever forfeit.
• Dark Passenger. One of the coolest-looking and, to me, most iconic skills has vanished from ST use.
• Acquisition of Blood abilities. This has to be one of the worst-feeling ways to acquire new skills since Wanderer's Minuet and Wheeling Thrust as a nerf to Fang and Claw. You are again presented with a resource that, until level 68, only situationally or periodically applicable.
• Lacking physical defensives and toolkit asymmetry. The loss of Dark Dance is hugely noticeable, and it makes no sense to have left Dark Mind as is without a direct alternative. It niches Dark Knight, making it wholly competitive only in fights with significant magic tank-busters at or just above Dark Mind's rate of usability.
• Unnecessarily unintuitive effects and reverse scaling. Why should TBN be punished completely if a healer shields you from the last 1% of damage that would have consumed TBN? Why are you faced with a larger penalty as your gear increases upon receiving Walking Dead?

I do honestly feel like there are more issues now than then, even if the direction of changes was partly towards something better. It seems they half understood some of the problems mentioned in regards to 3.x's Dark Knight gameplay, but then completely disregarded design fundamentals when seeking partly to repair and mostly just to provide new skill content -- of any sort, really -- in 4.x's Dark Knight.

HW DRK was miles better than SB DRK. I miss my procs and dot upkeep BADLY.
SB DRK feels way too damn monotonous, not to mention we lost multiple abilities to WAR and PLD and got an unfitting, generic PLD ability in return (rampart).

I switched mains to DRG and am just hoping that 5.0 will bring DRK back to its 3.X self.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Does everyone agree that 3.xx DRK was WAY BETTER than 4.xx DRK?

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I prefer playing 4.X DRK.

gameplay wise, i prefer 4.x drk than 3.x drk, not trying to downplay how 4.x drk feel underpowered though, it's two separate things.

I prefer 3.X DRK myself.

It was more engaging and fun imo. The learning process could be overwhelming, but in the end it was worth it if you managed to get everything right.

4.X DRK, while the kit works, feels incomplete on some parts. It's not as fun and as engaging as 3.X DRK, though I can still enjoy it. The only question is, for how much longer.

I agree.

3.x DRK was fun. You had to maintain Darkside, manage your mana pool with care. Keeping it on and doing high amount of damage was a really skillful task, and any greedy action could result in losing it. A high risk - reward system that WORKED.
Draining life from your enemies even out of Grit with Blood Price - spaming DA-AD. Evading attacks with DA-Dark Dance and parring everything else. Delirium gave us a useful debuff (as long as attacks of a target were magical), a break from using DA-SE, time to replenish mana, and a 'lil variety in our rotation.

4.x DRK... tank buster? TBN! Our rotation now? DaRk ArTs_dArK aRtS-SoUlEaTeR.
Boring as hell and - as DRK has lowest DPS right now - not rewarding. I just play this job for dungeons (but still hate boss fights with it) and O2(s) a few times. Other than that: PLD and WAR are by far better and more fun. (Yes, PLD! is MORE FUN than 4.x DRK!) I cri :(