Boycotting Dark Knight

I've decided to publicly renounce dark knight until the imbalances in the job are fixed. Players have given copious amounts of feedback going back to before the job was even released in Stormblood.

Reference posts:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-in-Stormblood

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tuning-buffing

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...signed-ability

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eedback-Thread

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...night-Properly

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...back-and-fixes

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...lities-for-DRK

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Dark-Passenger

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...night-gameplay

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...2-DRK-Redesign

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Knight-rework

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...improve-things.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...itional-effect.

Despite the feedback no significant changes have been addressed with the job.

Like below to show support of revisiting the numerous issues with dark knight.

Once I get WAR to cap I'll join this protest, kinda annoying that I have to settle into a new job because my main, FAVORITE, job is being ignored constantly by the dev team.

UPDATE: Got WAR to 70, that class is OP broken it's not even funny.

already don't play it.

*edit, it's not that i Don't think SE isn't working on DRK. I think they are. It's just the silence.

Godspeed.

/10char

I too am joining in. I’m lvling my war now and I’m using my smn and sam currently for content.

it won't change much anyway. For some reason SE thinks DRK is fine. despite jp and non jp complaining similarly. they haven't even acknowledged once.
and tbh it is fine. it's just not on the sam level as pld or war.
War was perfectly fine without the shake it off boost, but now we have a actual imbalance cause we have 2 out of 3 tanks that can provide raid mitigation, while the last one (drk) is also behind in most other aspects.

Since I'm not raiding anymore i won't stop playing drk anyway since neither war nor pld can provide the same level of satisfaction to me.
Especially PLD feels off to me since SB released.

I'm a stupid collector so I need to play drk at least until I get the new flying panther, but then it's back to warrior unless something changes. I feel like drk should be outstanding at something at the cost of something else, as its identity in the series is a job that makes a sacrifice for increased power. In XIV they let you dump chunks of MP to power up moves with Dark Arts, but the effect still isn't that great. Tbh now that both pld and war have become very well rounded, they could move drk up to being the highest dps tank just with some number tweaks, so instead of party-wide mitigation it just does really sick damage.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I'm a stupid collector so I need to play drk at least until I get the new flying panther, but then it's back to warrior unless something changes. I feel like drk should be outstanding at something at the cost of something else, as its identity in the series is a job that makes a sacrifice for increased power. In XIV they let you dump chunks of MP to power up moves with Dark Arts, but the effect still isn't that great. Tbh now that both pld and war have become very well rounded, they could move drk up to being the highest dps tank just with some number tweaks, so instead of party-wide mitigation it just does really sick damage.

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To me, honestly, this is what makes sense. Probably ain't gonna happen though. But if it did, I still think we'd need a number of other tweaks to make us more self-sufficient. Even if we were the "SAM of tanks" as it where, it'd hardly be worth it to groups if we also remained the most needy of tanks.

Indeed I too have switched to war my favorite class even starting in SB had issues and now here we are patches later and Drk still hasn't gotten the attention it deserves, War got Shake it Off completely changed and redone and Pld while I'm glad it got buffs for SB, is just the king at everything.

I hope the devs read all these posts on the forums and give us some changes and tweaks for tank balance as they said, this expansion they wanted to balance the tanks where every patch Drk falls further behind. So god speed to you and I hope SE reads what you and the other people on the tank forums are posting.

I've been boycotting it since 4.0 released. Got it to 70, because I had to, then left it there for the most part.

DRK was my sub all during HW, but know, just because the gameplay (if the gameplay of the DRK were cool, as it was in HW, I would play it even if his dps was 500 lower than the PLD) I stopped play it.
WAR is far better in that point, even at level 60.

I love this game, but what did they've done to the DRK and the MCH? Was my two mains rofl

Loved it in heavenswsrd but completely ditched the job in stormblood. Here's hoping we get some kind of dev response.
Ps. Would love scourge and old delirium back :3

I definitely demand Scourge back. There are literally zero reasons to have taken it away, it was potent and fun to use. That would be a huge step towards a nice fix for me, and it's easy as heck to put it back.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/24759305.jpg

Seriously though, maybe something will come up later and change your life so it can go back to DRK. At least you took time to go back and find the other threads. Good job. You've made a difference here. Now...I can sleep easy.

War was my main since 2.0 but during the shake it off BS, switched to dark knight and now I enjoy its power charging through dark arts play style more than being a fel cleave cannon. Problem is... Well dark knight is terrible in comparison to war so I've been picking war for all current content until DRK gets some love. Its not even about boycotting, its about bringing the class that is obviously a ton better, practically a nobrainer.

I'm with you guys. The class have the lower DPS in tanks and the lower utility (now with WAR buff).

This job was not supposed to be something between PLD and WAR?

How about a Dark Arts + TBN for raid mitigation? Just that should help a lot.

How the let PLD, with 4 or 5 utility skills do more damage than DRK?

I keep playing with DRK because I like the class a lot, but It's totally understandable if people want to drop.

I kinda believe that SE is aware of the feedbacks. And I still believe that they ARE working on it. But if memory serves, it is very difficult to find a measure of balance between classes, especially tank classes. I did play DRK myself until 60 in Heavensward. Great class, I'll give you that. Yet my main and favorite will remain PLD. If I'm not wrong, PLD during Heavensward had been more or less deserted for the benefit of DRK and WAR. That might a reason on Stormblood for the rising of PLD. Now all I can say would be hang on guys for they know your frustration but SE saying just WE ARE WORKING ON IT would add more fuel on the fire than the silence itself. It's tough but having failed once in the past on FF14 before a Realm Reborn, I want to believe they are more caring to the players communities and their expectations.

Tbh while drk has some issues I still prefer it more than warrior personally

While DRK may have some issues, mainly CD's, it's not that bad. It does take some time to get use to it and with the darkest night, when done properly, it really balances it out. I use to PLD main now I prefer DRK and only PLD if people complain about it -.-. I do prefer DRK over WAR as well.

I'm all for boycotting the job but lets all make sure we don't give SE the opinion that we prefer the other two above DRK, the opinions of everyone in these threads speaks volumes and almost everyone is like minded: DRK needs buffs. It desperately needs them and its more than just a dungeon tank. But honestly for job that I've enjoyed from the beginning of HW with its niche and skill synergy, to the sorry excuse it is now, I couldn't bring myself to play the other two as much. I'll still be playing DRK but of course that doesn't mean I'll stop making noise about the issues it has.

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Originally Posted by SplittingSkies

I'm all for boycotting the job but lets all make sure we don't give SE the opinion that we prefer the other two above DRK, the opinions of everyone in these threads speaks volumes and almost everyone is like minded: DRK needs buffs, it desperately needs them its more than just a dungeon tank. But honestly for job that I've enjoyed from the beginning of HW with its niche and skill synergy, to the sorry excuse it is now, I couldn't bring myself to play the other two as much. I'll still be playing DRK but of course that doesn't mean I'll stop making noise about the issues it has.

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Fair, to be clear, I enjoy Dark Knight above any other job in the game, but I dislike the state it is now. I joined this game late, but DRK was my first job to 60, and then it was my first job to 70. If they actually addressed dark knight issues and implemented some fixes I would switch back in a heartbeat.

I don't prefer warrior over dark knight but when I know i can do a better job on warrior regardless of playstyle and skill, its tough saying "welly my party can make up for my toolkit shortcomings." when they shouldn't have to. The thing that bothers me the most about drk currently is its inability to do any kind of healing itself outside grit. It they could at the very least fix souleater in the next patch I would probably start playing it again through most if not all content.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Fair, to be clear, I enjoy Dark Knight above any other job in the game, but I dislike the state it is now. I joined this game late, but DRK was my first job to 60, and then it was my first job to 70. If they actually addressed dark knight issues and implemented some fixes I would switch back in a heartbeat.

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Aye. You along with several others in the different threads have been the most vocal about it at the moment and I approve what your doing, what your all doing and want to play my part in this.

Some of the current issues are QoLs as well, I'm fine with them taking another direction with the battle system when they implemented the Role Action pool, however, we got nothing back in return for the skills that was donated to that pool and made into cheap knock offs. I've still got a personal gripe with Delirium, in that, it has some form of synergy with BW/BP, but nothing in comparison to what 3.x Low Blow/Reprisal/Dark Dance had. This wasn't a synergy you could get every two minutes, it was a synergy through procs which although DD was not as good RI, where RI was 100% parry as long as you took smacks in the face in front of you, it gave you a valid reason to use it whenever it came off CD. It would proc the other two, one for a single use every 30 seconds and the other which reset its CD timer. That, in my opinion was the better synergy.

And speaking of other synergy, DA DP and DA DD combo worked wonders in dungeons IF you had the MP spare to execute that combo. To see DODGE fill my screen during big pulls felt rewarding.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

While DRK may have some issues, mainly CD's, it's not that bad. It does take some time to get use to it and with the darkest night, when done properly, it really balances it out. I use to PLD main now I prefer DRK and only PLD if people complain about it -.-. I do prefer DRK over WAR as well.

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That is objectively false.
There is many topic about it, so I'll just make a summary about what is wrong with the DRK:
- Less Cds and worst cds rotation than the two others;
- Less dps than the two others;
- A very clunky gameplay which is literally braindead.

Even I, I was laughing about the PLD in HW because the gameplay was - for me again - too easy, now I cry about the DRK which is the same easy gameplay.

In fact, the DRK of SB is the PLD of HW...

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Originally Posted by Azerhan

A very clunky gameplay which is literally braindead.

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I personally enjoy the current DRK more than HW. I like the DA spam personally and would even say that DRK is more fun to play for me.

The problem with DRK is that if you were to do a pros/cons list against war/pld. You’d have absolutely nothing in the pros column... aside maybe ease of play.
There is nothing a drk brings to the table that pld/war don’t do better. Not that are bad, just not as good as the other tanks

Not that I’m actively boycotting DRK but I dropped it immediately after week 1 of Savage. Only touch it occasionally for expert roulette just for variety.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

I don't prefer warrior over dark knight but when I know i can do a better job on warrior regardless of playstyle and skill, its tough saying "welly my party can make up for my toolkit shortcomings." when they shouldn't have to. The

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i agree with this they dont even have one self heal just in darkside it kinda sucks, but I dono bout that I mean im not the greatest darknight but its alot easier to play that warrior is. The 6 fell cleaves isnt even a thing now its just a cluster of stuff that kinda disappoints me and makes me not even like warrior that much but shake it off is nice tho now

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

I personally enjoy the current DRK more than HW. I like the DA spam personally and would even say that DRK is more fun to play for me.

The problem with DRK is that if you were to do a pros/cons list against war/pld. You’d have absolutely nothing in the pros column... aside maybe ease of play.

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yea I agree with you shinkyo, I def prefer the darkarts drain being gone. While I like scourge I get tired of dots, but I would prefer old delirium as opposed to the one we have now I dont really like it at all. No self heals, and almost every cool down before tbn is from cross class thats bad design for a tank if u ask me. And speaking of tbn that 5 seconds is annoying would love at least 8 or ten seconds.

This is kind of futile.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

snip + bswpayton snip

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Yeah, you're not the first to tell me they love the new DRK more than the HW's one.

But you're in minority (I want to put a smiley "sorry" here but...Hey, it's not very beautiful!)
And I agree some changements will not be fair for you, but a most of the part that makes the DRK... The DRK has been deleted in SB.
Were is the difficulty to maintain Darkside? The choice between a 290p Delirium and the DA SE at 350?
Those beautiful anim that Scourge and Old Delirium was?
That place between the WAR and the PLD?

I want to say, without any animosity, if you want to play DRK now, is the same as PLD but with less abilities. And less dps too...

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Originally Posted by Azerhan

Yeah, you're not the first to tell me they love the new DRK more than the HW's one.

But you're in minority (I want to put a smiley "sorry" here but...Hey, it's not very beautiful!)
.

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they arent gona go back to how drk was tho , hence the changes to dragoon in sb, and sum, the whole point of gauges etc was to make the jobs easier they not gona go in reverse. If your hoping for that your dreaming, but its still plenty of good qol changes they could do for the job tho.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

I personally enjoy the current DRK more than HW. I like the DA spam personally and would even say that DRK is more fun to play for me.

The problem with DRK is that if you were to do a pros/cons list against war/pld. You’d have absolutely nothing in the pros column... aside maybe ease of play.
There is nothing a drk brings to the table that pld/war don’t do better. Not that are bad, just not as good as the other tanks

Not that I’m actively boycotting DRK but I dropped it immediately after week 1 of Savage. Only touch it occasionally for expert roulette just for variety.

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Count me in this group too. I really like 4.0 DRK, so much so that I feel weird when I play my PLD or WAR even though they're statistically better.

I don't want some full rework (that's not feasible until 5.0 anyway and I don't want it even then), I just want the current toolkit buffed so they're viable.

I've been reading all these threads, and well I agree drk could use a slight potency buff, and maybe a little better physical mitigation, calling them unviable is kinda silly. I mean 4 of the top 10 speed runs on fflogs for v4s have a drk in them, seems like they're pretty viable in pretty much any scenario (prog, speed runs, casual content).

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Originally Posted by Deathgiver

I've been reading all these threads, and well I agree drk could use a slight potency buff, and maybe a little better physical mitigation, calling them unviable is kinda silly. I mean 4 of the top 10 speed runs on fflogs for v4s have a drk in them, seems like they're pretty viable in pretty much any scenario (prog, speed runs, casual content).

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I haven't read this particular thread top-to-bottom, but "not viable" isn't something I've seen thrown around much if at all. The problem is we're just bad compared to the other two and completely below them in all categories.

Using current content as a judge is meaningless, mainly because of how easy this tier was. Also if you check fflogs usage statistics overall, they'll tell you a different story. Looking at speed runs only shows a fraction of the big picture.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

I haven't read this particular thread top-to-bottom, but "not viable" isn't something I've seen thrown around much if at all. The problem is we're just bad compared to the other two and completely below them in all categories.

Using current content as a judge is meaningless, mainly because of how easy this tier was. Also if you check fflogs usage statistics overall, they'll tell you a different story. Looking at speed runs only shows a fraction of the big picture.

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The problem with usage statistics is they are heavily biased by player perception. If the meta is war pld, less people are gonna enter on drk regardless of how viable they are. I did acknowledge they need a dps buff, and lack of mitigation from aa is telling in some content, but they definitely still have a place in almost all content.

Honestly, the changes it would take to make drk super competitive would be pretty minor. Buff dark arts potency boost to gcd rotation skills by 60, buff blood spiller base potency and drk arts potency boost both by 60 (75 in grit), add 6% mitigation to blood price and make it available out of grit as well, but leave the blood generation tied to grit (maybe make blood generation double current though). Those changes alone would bring the dps, burst capability under party buffs and mitigation in line with the other tanks. They'd also make using blood spiller feel good since it wouldn't be a lower potency attack than your average da-se.

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Originally Posted by Azerhan

That is objectively false.
There is many topic about it, so I'll just make a summary about what is wrong with the DRK:
- Less Cds and worst cds rotation than the two others;
- Less dps than the two others;
- A very clunky gameplay which is literally braindead.

Even I, I was laughing about the PLD in HW because the gameplay was - for me again - too easy, now I cry about the DRK which is the same easy gameplay.

In fact, the DRK of SB is the PLD of HW...

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I understand your perspective, so far keeping Dark arts and using abilities with it properly is what changes the way a DRK has become more effective and difficult. If more people knew how to use dark arts properly and learn how to keep their MP at an acceptable level constantly there might be less complains. Your right seems easy if you stick to the basic enmity rotations, mix in some Dark arts and proper use of blood gauge abilities and it's more complicated than people give it credit. It all depends on play style. I play all 3 Tank roles and by Far I enjoy DRK. I'm sorry if others may not accept the fact that there is more to DRK's than they think or even bother trying. Then again most people on this game think they know their jobs with out even understanding how everything works yet when placed into actual performance is very questionable.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

snip

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For my part, I was already playing DRK in HW, I've trained a lot with it to maximise both my dps and my defence, and I've done the same in SB - I've begun the Savage with it, since I'm a main Sam! And I was really near to the War of my little roster in dps. So, I believe I wasn't one of the """"bad"""" DRK players, even if people can think my ego is really big.
However, masterate the DRK is far easier than the WAR. PLD is just easy, but is the "goal" of the PLD, it's ever was.
But during HW, DRK was the hardest tank to masterate, and now, it's the WAR - and it's not really hard.
I've nothing against changement, except if this change makes a thing so different that we can't recognize it at the end. It's the issue with the SB DRK, most of the DRK's players can't recognize their own job in it. And that's why you can see so much topic about it in this forum, Reddit, and surely on Discord.
And outside the gameplay, you have the numbers too. As some people (and I) said before, the DRK is the worst dps between the three tank and the worst in Cds mitigation, and now, the worst in utilities.
So maybe some players prefer DRK as it. Ok, I prefer the new Brd far better than the old.
But as an old DRK player, I just give up with this job, that is no more the same as before, in all points.

I hated DRK in HW because I'm a hipster Final Fantasy fan at heart and Dark Knights are about bitching armor and big damage, but how DRK performs compared to HW in SB makes the Dark Knight in HW look amazing compared to the garbage we have in Stormblood.

And that's fucking sad.

The only thing it has going for it is TBN. Outside of that? Awful. Awful everywhere.

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Good to see you Tanathya. Not everyday I see someone who GETS IT.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I hated DRK in HW because I'm a hipster Final Fantasy fan at heart and Dark Knights are about bitching armor and big damage, but how DRK performs compared to HW in SB makes the Dark Knight in HW look amazing compared to the garbage we have in Stormblood.

And that's fucking sad.

The only thing it has going for it is TBN. Outside of that? Awful. Awful everywhere.

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Amen, as usual.

I'm not complaining about the job but I really didn't think warrior needed a buff, either. If warrior needed the Shake it Off change then Dark Knight deserves something, too. Personally I'd like to see it come in the form of some Dark Arts interaction with an existing skill, maybe extending a cooldown to the group. I felt like back in HW what made DRK feel like the "advanced" tank was the added layer of complexity in Dark Arts usage. If we actually used that, then it would be a potency loss. Therefore we probably DO need a potency buff, which I'm also okay with. PLD dps should be hands down the lowest of the three tanks (hard to say who should be higher between DRK and WAR, I'd say WAR) and if they won't nerf paladins they should buff dark knights.

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Originally Posted by Azerhan

But as an old DRK player, I just give up with this job, that is no more the same as before, in all points.

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As long as you can enjoy the game, changes do make players change their perspective. All good.