How is the summoner dps?

I\\'ve heard some people say summoners have poor dps in Stormblood and some say it\\'s decent. I\\'d like to know from experienced summoners out there. Are they good for endgame content?

Especially since the changes it is extremely powerful. It requires some work/practice to get used to the timings of the rotation, but once you have it down it is very strong.

Summoner and Samurai are the two highest dps classes right now, switching places depending on the fight.

SMN dps is fine, biggest problem is find raid spot because there is so many blm/rdm/smn around and everybody take MCH for speed kills because more raid utility.

Go check my log page, I’ve been playing Summoner for like two weeks and I have 97+ (minus Neo where I died)

All the dps are the SAME to me.... pretty much the SAME dps... Except RED MAGE.... They can HEAL but almost NEVER do it...!

Summoners are fantastic. ESP with the versatility between single target and aoe dmg outputs. Summoner hasnt been bad since 2.0. It's been steadily improved ever since. Not always in big ways but I think with the current rotation, its extremely strong once you get it down.

Hadn't touched it beyond leveling it to 70, picked it up on a dummy yesterday with a hodgepodge of BiS, Susano book and 300-310 gear and did 4145 on a dummy. No food, pots, or party buffs, just me alone. I'd say it's pretty strong - top logs show around 1800 more than that, so I'm sure the class is definitely capable of more with things like an AST, NIN, and BRD in the group, as well as proper raid prep and better gear. It may have possibly been OVERBUFFED with 4.1, but time will see, I suppose.

Black Mage: I am overpowered, unbalanced, can issue 30k direct critting fouls twice a minute at will, am the result of development favoritism and you will love everything I do

Summoner: I AM YOUR GOD NOW, PUNY MORTAL!! BRING UNTO ME YOUR SACRIFICES!!!

Joking aside, I'd say that all the caster dps classes are in a good spot right now, but I am not at all surprised my FC's summoner main has the highest damage output, raid after raid.

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Originally Posted by Pondera

Black Mage: I am overpowered, unbalanced, can issue 30k direct critting fouls twice a minute at will, am the result of development favoritism and you will love everything I do

Summoner: I AM YOUR GOD NOW, PUNY MORTAL!! BRING UNTO ME YOUR SACRIFICES!!!

Joking aside, I'd say that all the caster dps classes are in a good spot right now, but I am not at all surprised my FC's summoner main has the highest damage output, raid after raid.

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Casters are in an OK spot with the exception of BLM. For a selfish dps it does less raw damage than summoner and that is without including the utility of radiant shield, the power or contagion, or devotion. Right now, SMN is the strongest caster, especially for farm, if you want any kind of progression, RDM is a great go to, and if you want to be excluded from raids and PF's BLM is the class for you.

Until the dominance of physical meta can be thrown off, casters will NEVER be in a “good” spot, as far as I’m concerned.

There will always be meta it’s true, but it’s just obnoxious

The "meta" is an overhyped overblown load of Malboro waste. It's just something that bad players cling to to try to justify stupid decisions like excluding a job just because it's not the in thing. It's been stated over and over again that every job is perfectly capable of doing any content. These people that cling to the meta thinking that it's the only way to succeed just frankly need to get better at playing.

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Originally Posted by DJMau

The "meta" is an overhyped overblown load of Malboro waste. It's just something that bad players cling to to try to justify stupid decisions like excluding a job just because it's not the in thing. It's been stated over and over again that every job is perfectly capable of doing any content. These people that cling to the meta thinking that it's the only way to succeed just frankly need to get better at playing.

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Until you get a BLM for your group, get 3 weeks in to prog, realize he cannot raise, cannot heal, cannot mitigate and cannot play any other classes.

I don't get your point, ppl have completed v4s week 1 with BLM in their group

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

Until you get a BLM for your group, get 3 weeks in to prog, realize he cannot raise, cannot heal, cannot mitigate and cannot play any other classes.

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maybe its not blms in generell just "the one" you have had to handle with? I just don't want to say that he/she seems to suck tho.... : /

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

Until you get a BLM for your group, get 3 weeks in to prog, realize he cannot raise, cannot heal, cannot mitigate and cannot play any other classes.

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Why do you need your BLM to do any of those things?
Also BLMs can mitigate as well as a RDM or SMN can - Addle and Apocatastasis (which is all the mitigation a caster can bring) are role skills.

Have opener and rotation changed between 4.0 and 4.1 ? if so, could you provide us with a proper new opener/rotation
thank you

If you ask me the damage is too high.
There is no reason why a SMN should be doing more damage than a BLM seeing as the former gives rDMG while the latter does not.
BLM should be the one doing SAM damage, not SMN.

I'm wouldnt be too surprise to see a small BLM buff next patch. In 4.0 discussion we're heavily focused on SMN issue, the grand winner of this patch is BLM so I guess we can expect some change for 4.2, although it sucks that we have to wait so long for it. Maybe some minor change in 4.15

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Originally Posted by Remedi

I don't get your point, ppl have completed v4s week 1 with BLM in their group

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When it comes to recovery abilities like those of rdm, the point is not "what can be done without them" but rather "what can be done with them." My group would've taken longer to clear o1s-o4s than we did if we had a blm or even smn instead of rdm during prog. Should we git gud? Yeah maybe. Still doesn't change the fact that most of our first clears wouldn't be possible with a blm. Some of the casters that switched to rdm for prog agreed that they wouldn't have cleared as fast if they went with blm/smn instead. It's not impossible to clear fast with a blm, but you can't really deny that bringing a rdm makes things easier during prog.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

When it comes to recovery abilities like those of rdm, the point is not "what can be done without them" but rather "what can be done with them." My group wouldn't have cleared o1s-o4s as fast as we did if we had a blm or even smn instead of rdm during prog. Should we git gud? Yeah maybe. Still doesn't change the fact that most of our first clears wouldn't be possible with a blm. Some of the casters that switched to rdm for prog agreed that they wouldn't have cleared as fast if they went with blm/smn instead. It's not impossible to clear fast with a blm, but you can't really deny that bringing a rdm makes things easier during prog.

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I'm not denying anything, I'm just against this rampart opinion that you HAVE to get a rezz dispenser to complete a fight for prog or you can't clear, which is factually wrong. Wouldn't say that it is very good for world prog, but you try to get the best possible players/coomp for that and it's different from every ppl comp

Yeah it's not required, it just makes it easier and allow more rooms for mistakes. As you said, different needs for different groups, some people want to clear quickly while others just want to play the classes they like.

Prog is going to always be certain combinations of jobs due to the synergy they have with each other. RDM was an obvious choice to bring over a SMN or BLM because of mobility, synergy with melee (embolden), rezzing ability, and decent dps. Ease of playing the job also heightened these facts. Still see people bringing RDM for prog, but at least with the changes to SMN, I can see people considering it now as well. BLM, though there is no issue with bringing one, will be overlooked still because people want to progress as quickly and smoothly as possible. Speed is big factor in prog.

I think mobility on RDM is a bit overrated, short burst movement are fine but if prolonged it is problematic for them eventually, they have no dots and most proc are all casted, sure they have OGCDs and could use their melees combo in a pinch, dunno popular or viable that is tbh. Honestly SMN is really the king on movements fight more than ever

The only guaranteed mobility of rdm is swiftcast. You can only "time" your dualcast for mechanics when you have mapped down every single gcd you can do in that phase, which wouldn't be feasible mid progression with all the inconsistencies. If something happens during your hard cast phase you lose that cast, just like a blm.

Summoner DPS is high. Way too high in fact. It's currently doing damage competitive with Samurai and above Black Mage and Monk while also offering better party buffs than any of them. It should be below Monk in damage, not pushing Samurai numbers.

See, I come at it from the reverse: I don't think SMN damage is high, it's probably not even high enough to offset double ranged physical comps. That said, BLM/MNK/SAM damage is nowhere near high enough and that has nothing to do with SMN.

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Originally Posted by Leukka

See, I come at it from the reverse: I don't think SMN damage is high, it's probably not even high enough to offset double ranged physical comps. That said, BLM/MNK/SAM damage is nowhere near high enough and that has nothing to do with SMN.

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The way to get past double ranged meta is to have jobs that inventivize having casters, not having a Samurai Caster with Raid Buffs. I agree BLM needs a buff, but SMN could do with a light nerf at this point.

I think any nerf right now would make Summoners unhappy since it just got (partially) fixed.

Even with the changes, it's still one of the more complicated jobs to play so their damage is fine. I think SE should focus on fixing the other jobs first, especially Monk and Black Mage, before comparing and balancing Summoner to other jobs.

You don't balance jobs with sole buffs.
If sam/blm scores are considered as balanced, then smn is not and should be lowered.

Basically if smn are nerfed, smn will be unhappy.
If every job but smn are buffed, smn will be unhappy.
If the situation remains as it is now, much more other players will be unhappy.

There is no balance with everyone beeing happy, because everyone wants it's own job higher than others.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Even with the changes, it's still one of the more complicated jobs to play so their damage is fine.

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Yoshi has gone on record saying that job complexity has no weight in DPS balance. Think it was before Omega hit and people were complaining about high Samurai numbers in primals.

Then again Squenix.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Even with the changes, it's still one of the more complicated jobs to play so their damage is fine..

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There's some Jobs with similar complexity and are no where near SMN level of damage, so no it's not fine at all, especially when balancing damage around complexity is now an outdated term according to Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

I think any nerf right now would make Summoners unhappy since it just got (partially) fixed.

Even with the changes, it's still one of the more complicated jobs to play so their damage is fine. I think SE should focus on fixing the other jobs first, especially Monk and Black Mage, before comparing and balancing Summoner to other jobs.

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You know it's funny. I remember the RDM playerbase saying much the same thing (They should focus on fixing SMN/BLM rather than nerfing RDM (side note: aside from a glitch fix, there was clearly no nerf needed)) back at launch, and a lot of the SMN playerbase came out saying that no, there's power creep and that's bad and RDM needs nerfed and that would fix everything.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

You know it's funny. I remember the RDM playerbase saying much the same thing (They should focus on fixing SMN/BLM rather than nerfing RDM (side note: aside from a glitch fix, there was clearly no nerf needed)) back at launch, and a lot of the SMN playerbase came out saying that no, there's power creep and that's bad and RDM needs nerfed and that would fix everything.

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And we sit on the bottom rung of the damage ladder and gloat since our argument was correct. Unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Yoshi has gone on record saying that job complexity has no weight in DPS balance.

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First time I've known of that.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

You know it's funny. I remember the RDM playerbase saying much the same thing

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Except people were wrong and RDM doesn't need a nerf. It does the least DPS out of the 3 caster jobs since launch.

I'm not saying they shouldn't nerf SMN, they should fix MNK and BLM before nerfing SMN. I'm not opposed to nerfing SMN because it is really powerful but I'd like to see the jobs that need attention be addressed first.

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Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

And we sit on the bottom rung of the damage ladder and gloat since our argument was correct. Unfortunately.

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Hooray for being right, and effing criminy for being anywhere between absolute last and third from last on every battle this tier, including the 24 man!

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Except people were wrong and RDM doesn't need a nerf. It does the least DPS out of the 3 caster jobs since launch.

I'm not saying they shouldn't nerf SMN, they should fix MNK and BLM before nerfing SMN. I'm not opposed to nerfing SMN because it is really powerful but I'd like to see the jobs that need attention be addressed first.

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I agree that they were wrong and RDM certainly didn't and doesn't need nerfing. With everything SMN now offers (Contagion is a magic trick attack that has more uptime than trick attack, Radiant Shield is 2% physical damage up for 4 seconds every time someone takes damage with a timespan of 20 seconds, Devotion giving 2% general damage buff and 5% healing buff), on top of its solo dps matching or surpassing Samurai...it becomes a question of why take another caster? Summoner brings everything BLM or RDM could, with some exception, and surpasses them by miles. Hell, it surpasses Samurai due to all of this too.

I think SMN could use some potency nerfs. When I pointed out what Red Mages were saying at launch, it was both me saying I know where you're coming from with this, but I also know what the forums' answer to this was on another similar issue. I think SAM sets a good ceiling; BLM could use a buff to get up to those levels, but that SMN passes both in most instances is why I say that the job needs some potency nerfs here and there. Nothing to change the gameplay in any negative way.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Except people were wrong and RDM doesn't need a nerf. It does the least DPS out of the 3 caster jobs since launch.

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Well both blm and summoner get buffed after launch. BLM get 0.2sec faster cast times and summoner get 10 more potency for miasma/bio. Before these buffs RDM was easily strongest caster dps.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Well both blm and summoner get buffed after launch. BLM get 0.2sec faster cast times and summoner get 10 more potency for miasma/bio. Before these buffs RDM was easily strongest caster dps.

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Red Mage was strong, but not because of its toolkit. It was strong because of a mana glitch, that once that was patched out put it below the others.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

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SMN does have a lot of support but just pointing it out that Contagion is only worth it if you have another caster DPS with you, but there's also some meta with melees going on right now and that Ifrit is stronger than Garuda. Radiant Shield would see no use in fights where it can't reflect damage to extend the physical vulnerability debuff.

When people said SMN is as strong or stronger than SAM I thought it was some sick joke, apparently it is true. I'm impressed how such a change would put SMN from being so low to being so high up. It would need nerfs, sure, but they better be careful of what they nerf. Seriously.

Still, they need to do something about BLM and MNK first because both were ignored for a while now.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Red Mage was strong, but not because of its toolkit. It was strong because of a mana glitch, that once that was patched out put it below the others.

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Worth mentioning that the glitch wasn't particularly common knowledge, but people still just looked at the top 10 or so parses and decided RDM was OP. Oh the brilliance of ignorance.