I've been away a bit but did get to i289 and do a clear of Ala Mhigo before that. I got back on my WHM and today is my second day of roulettes. One thing I've noticed is that in Bardam's Mettle and Ala Mhigo I am awful with the large pulls, so I'm going to have to say "no large pulls please" for now.
I get that a well-timed Regen, an Asylum, even a Divine Benison can help. And yes, Holy has a stun, which can contribute to mitigation. But, the tanks drop so quickly. I am using up Benediction and Swift Cast (for a Cure II) so fast. So I end up mostly just trying to heal because otherwise it's a wipe.
And yes, from what I can tell the tanks I've played with seem to be using Shield Oath, Grit, etc.
I just can't cast fast enough unless I use Presence of Mind, assuming I can stop chain-healing long enough.
I don't claim to be a great healer, but I do my best. Is there some obvious combo or rotation that I'm missing or do I just stick with 95+% heals for those runs? I don't mind mostly healing or I would pick another job. Just wondering what else to try.
Help with big pulls in newer content
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10-17-2017, 10:53 AMtinythinkerHelp with big pulls in newer content
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10-17-2017, 11:40 AMCynfaelAt i289 it's not unreasonable that you might have more difficulty with mass pulls in Ala Mhigo even if the tank is doing their part to mitigate. Your experience also depends in large part on the DPS; things feel much easier if everything is dead or mostly dead by the time several tank and healer CDs have been exhausted.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinythinker
It sounds like you have the right idea, so I'm thinking this is a gear and possibly a party issue. It's also possible that your tanks aren't paying a lot of attention to ground AoEs, and their HP will dive if they are eating cannon splats and such while getting beaten on by a horde of mobs. -
10-17-2017, 12:16 PMtinythinkerI'm up to i302 now after two days of those roulettes and some 8v8 Feast matches on Sunday and a lot of A and S ranks. That might help. Also hoping to see some improvement when I hit i310-315 and above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynfael
Oh, and does anyone know if there is an in-game latency meter I can turn and on and view during runs to make sure that lag isn't an issue? -
10-18-2017, 08:59 AMBillyKaplan
Bardam's Mettle is one of those dungeons where the adds hit like trucks, so I'm not surprised to hear you're struggling through that place. I'll also add that I've seen more than the one tank intentionally eat telegraphs in there, so that could also play a part. Anything else I wanted to add, Cynfael already covered. Tanks using cooldowns, DPS AoEing, tank pulling according to the AoE DPS capability of the party... those are all things you as a healer have little control over, but that heavily affect the survivability of the party.
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10-18-2017, 09:15 AMMoroMurasaki
I haven't personally done it in a while so if I'm mistaken someone please tell me but I think they removed the reward cap for Omega normal rewards in 4.1 meaning gearing a job up to 320 that way wouldn't really be that hard and would likely be a lot quicker than verity/creation gearing.
You will certainly see a difference in the difficulty at Bardams as you gear and if you want to run so omega normal I'd totally party with you and be your coheal. That way even if you haven't done it before you'd be relatively safe. Lemme know, I'm on most evenings EST time, that would be a really quick way to fill out some 320 gear though. -
10-18-2017, 10:08 AMtinythinkerNo doubt on all counts, but there does seem to be a consistent expectation I am not meeting and my own ability is all I can control. The things I get most frustrated with are how fast and constant tank health drops (especially DKs) and when I miss a beat and should have been able to get a heal off but I don't or its late. Otherwise I just try to roll with it. I was wondering initially in my OP if there was some noob to 4.0 mistake I was making, as I don't want to wipe parties just for practice. I will keep raising ilevel to see if that helps :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyKaplan
I will watch an Omega normal vid tonight to learn a little for later in the week. I did watch some streamers when it was released and it seems nuts. I've avoided things like Alexander and Omega as I figure that for now high end dungeons are my version of top-tier endgame :p My plan has been that when I can run those comfortably I would move up the chain, but normal Omega may not be as bad as it sounds. How would I group with someone from the forums? Look for the raid in PF?Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
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10-18-2017, 10:40 AMKabzyYou can now add people you come into contact with on other servers to your friends list. So you can send them /tells and whatnot. You could always make a private PF and get people from the forums to join it and then add them. I’m not sure if it’s locked to data centres.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinythinker
On that note I’d also be happy to help you out if you ever decided to pick up Scholar again. I think i remember you mentioning you enjoyed it once upon a time. ^^ -
10-18-2017, 11:12 AMtinythinkerI did but I confess I was a bad SCH who let the fairie run wild and basically ignored it after parking it near the tank...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabzy
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And in other news someone just gave me help because my forgetfulness and inconsistent play leads to the dumb:
I don't recall which fights I need Esuna for (and fumbling for it in menus in-play after I realize I need it sounded bad) so I kept it as one of my 5 role skills, along with Lucid, Protect, Largesse, and Swift.
Anyway, the full suggestion was:
1. Regen once hate is established
2. Switfcast holy to get fast stun
3. Cast Aero 3
4. Heal (spell choice depending on state of tank's health)
5. Holy
6. Heal if needed
7. Holy
8. E4E -
10-18-2017, 01:50 PMMoroMurasakiDon't get scared away based on a video, at this point there is very little in Omega normal that results in a wipe. 2 in particular is literally the easiest thing to heal. Do you have Discord? Most of the time when I party with forum or reddit friends we organize on there, plus if you can hop in voice on there even without a microphone to talk I can do call outs for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinythinker
If not I'll keep an eye on this thread throughout the week. I can set up a private party finder group at a time that works for both of us. At that point you just pop in party finder, click the private tab and look for my name.
Give Omega a try for sure even if it isn't with me, its a great way to gear up early now.
The advice you listed also looks pretty great. Personally I don't tend to have E4E on my WHM buttif you've got it dont use it if you're going to be Holy spamming at the same time or it kind of defeats the purpose. -
10-19-2017, 01:52 AMtinythinker
E4E would be after the holies if the tank is still dropping. I figure everyone struggles at times with their jobs or poor positioning so my role is to help catch them. If it turns out I don't need it that's fine with me.
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10-19-2017, 02:19 AMMoroMurasakiOh yeah, it's cool to have for sure. I was just saying the stun from Holy means enemies are attacking the tank less while E4E is up which makes it less effective. For a SCH or AST on a big pull it's great since they don't stun. But after 3 or 4 holies enemies go immune to the stun for like a minute anyways so that's prime time for E4E.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinythinker
Though now I'm curious what cross roles you have, that might be playing into the big pull difficulty too. On WHM I tend to use Protect, Swiftcast, Largresse, Lucid Dreaming and Cleric Stance. I try to swap either Cleric or Protect for Esuna when I know I'll need it. I get that Cleric isn't everyone's cup of tea as well, just my two cents :D -
10-19-2017, 02:44 AMKabooa
Bardram's is a bad barometer for big pulls.
Bardram's sucks, and is more dangerous than any expert dungeon currently. -
10-19-2017, 03:09 AMTaika
I happened to take a video of my Ala Mhigo expert today in case it's any help for you: https://youtu.be/cbho3LYfxdE. I haven't played WHM much in SB and my WHM is far from optimised though. But maybe it can be an example of an average WHM play in this content. :)
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10-19-2017, 03:11 AMMoroMurasakiFor sure. Its like a perfect storm of terrible things for healers, culminating in undergeared tanks pulling like there is an actual time limit to worry about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabooa
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10-19-2017, 03:38 AMGhishlain
I'm also going to chime in and agree that Bardem's and Ala Mhigo both have some pretty large damage bumps when groups are being stacked together. This is especially true in Bardem if a tank is still running in i270 gear. It's a small ilvl jump but the defense bonuses the tank gain for being at capped ilvl is immense.
In fact, if you want to put into perspective the leaps in Defense / MDefense values that higher ilvl gear has, go to the market board and look at jumps in Def / MDef value on tank gear after i270. This should emphasize both the importance of a tank to update their gear and also show you how much of a difference the seemingly small leap in ilvl means to helping you keep your tank alive.
Ala Mhigo is also a culprit to mass pulls because the instance itself caps at ilvl 310. This means tanks feeling invincible due to no ilvl sync (yet) in Kugane / Temple of Fist / Scylla won't have the same benefits in Ala Mhigo. I also think ilvl sync also removes the bonuses given by Materia, which can also affect tank survability if they have a lot Tenacity melded. This is coupled with some trash having some pretty potent tank busters *Glares at gorillas and motorcycles* leads to some pretty crazy damage spikes that may be hard to heal if you aren't ilvl capped.
In essence, don't feel too bad if things go pretty far south in these two dungeons. If a tank can't gauge the limitations of the party and goes wall-to-wall, there might not be anything you can do about that as a healer and unfortunately, there's not much you can do about it at that point. -
10-19-2017, 08:33 AMZfz
I happened to have collected all the quest HQ gear from 64 to 68. Here are some relevant values:
- defense head + body + hands + waist + legs + feet (VIT)
- Lv 60 270 Shire: 343 + 480 + 343 + 297 + 480 + 343 = 2286
(VIT = 117+190+117+88+190+117 = 819) - Lv 64 273 HQ: 389 + 545 + 389 + 337 + 545 + 389 = 2594, meaning Shire + 13.5%
(VIT = 120+195+120+90+195+120 = 840) - Lv 66 279 HQ: 482 + 674 + 482 + 417 + 674 + 482 = 3211, meaning Shire + 40.5%, or the Lv 64 set + 23.8%
(VIT = 122+199+122+92+199+122 = 856)
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10-19-2017, 10:33 AMBroodingFicus
Mass pulls can always be a little finicky because part of the situation is out of your control. If the tank doesn't hold aggro off DPS or isn't mitigating damage, the struggle can be real but I can tell you how I handle them in pretty much all dungeons after lvl 66.
1. Aside from the first pull of the whole dungeon, I try to make sure I have three lilies before each pull so I can cast Divine Benison a few seconds before the tank starts rounding up adds. It won't attract aggro so long as the cast is over before the tank gets too close but it will keep them from dipping down too much during that gathering phase in some larger pulls that can then leave you trying to play catch up once aggro is established.
2. As they are approaching the point I know they'll stop I drop Asylum and silently say a prayer they'll stand in it.
3. Cast regen.
4. Begin healing with Cure I/II.
5. Divine Benison will be up fast in most cases because I used it 3-5 seconds before the pull and had the the full recast reduction. I top the tank off, reuse it, thin air, and move in to swift cast holy until their hp is dropping to a level I'm no longer comfortable with. That varies for me depending on if I'm running with a pocket tank I know or if its a pug tank that I'm not as familiar with.
6. Whenever I reach that danger zone I pop tetra, assize, renew regen if there is more than 21secs of the battle left (if I don't think it will fall off before the next pull, I leave it off), and go back to healing with Cure I/Cure II.
My other advice would be to remember your abilities like Presence of Mind. In a pinch, if I'm falling behind or need to get off an aoe heal for the others while not losing too much ground on the tank, Ill pop Benison, PoM, Medica, then go back to Cure I/II. WHM is also very mana efficient with a ton of ways to get it back so I honestly very rarely bother with Cure I and I think that has become pretty common. The free cure proc chance just isn't frequent enough for me to see the value. Largresse is also nice when you need an extra boost but always pop it before your regens etc to make sure they are under its effect. Keep your Benediction in the wing just in case you need that 'HOLY COW' heal to save a tanks life and try not to position yourself in any place you'll be forced to move too much. Sometimes it can't be helped thanks to targeted aoe markers etc but I also try to not stand near other casters that way if they do get targeted, I don't also have to move.
As an aside, if you're ever not comfortable with mass pulls, say so. That's perfectly acceptable and sometimes higher geared tanks tunnel vision and won't check your gear or that of the party before mass pulling, let alone ask. Most people are pretty friendly about it if you do though. Good luck out there. -
10-19-2017, 11:29 AMGhishlainI'm also not too familiar myself with how damage received is exactly calculated but to help put your numbers into perspective, here are the jumps from Lv. 50 to 56. The percentage boost is the same across the board for the SB gear so I'm just going to make the same assumption here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zfz
(Lv. 50 equivalent) i130 Body - 167 DEF / 59 VIT
(Lv. 54) i333 Body - 168 DEF / 59 VIT (basically no change)
(Lv. 56) i139 Body - 203 DEF / 60 VIT (21.5%+)
So, going from i130 to i139 is a gain of 21.5% defense while going from i270 to i279 is a gain of 40.5%. Now there's the potential that damage received formulas might be adjust for post 60+ content but if you assume that formula remains the same and content is tuned around these higher defense values in mind, a lower ilvl tank will suffer more damage in SB content versus pre-SB content - which in turn lower ilvls more more squishier than compared to that same ilvl gulf in pre-SB. -
10-19-2017, 02:13 PMSylvain
Honestly it could have been a bit of everything, if you were spamming cure2 with regen and occasional emergency cooldowb like tetragram you should be fine. Which means that it's either your tank not being careful enough, dps not dropping things fast enough. I don't believe your gear is the only reason, it could have had an impact of course, but increasing your healing by 20% will not make things go from “barely manageable “, to "cakewalk"
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11-04-2017, 10:39 AMtinythinkerAfter continuing to struggle (and do worse?) in any SB dungeon above Siren Song, I think I will have to give up on all but an opportunistic Holy now and then and just spam heal. Parties may get mad but that's better than dead. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvain
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11-04-2017, 11:14 AMCynfaelIf you can put together a brief video example of what your pulls look like, that might help us better identify issues you may currently be having.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinythinker
Also, I just noticed/remembered that you are on Faerie with me. Always happy to play with you sometime. -
11-04-2017, 11:30 AMtinythinkerThanks. Not sure I can do videos. If you want a first-hand observation sure :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Cynfael
Honestly all of the advice has been really helpful... for level 50/60 dungeons. I know they are synched for me, super-easy kiddy mode, etc, etc., but, I can pull off what other people do in 4.x with about the same level of effort/closeness of calls and see my mistakes in real time and learn. I might still blow it (rarely) but generally I feel good about my chances and my ability to recover if something does go wrong. In 4.x there's just too much damage too fast to do more than heal spam unless I want a 50-60% chance (or higher in some runs) of wipes on pulls. I don't want to keep wiping parties in DF or having to ask for small pulls and still struggle. It's not fair to other players.
I like the story, art, music, and themes of FFXIV. The players mostly seem nice/friendly. But I'm slowly starting to dislike running dungeons/healing :/ -
11-04-2017, 11:44 AMTridus
It's also very dependant on other people. It tends to average out over time, but if you have bad luck, it can seem like it's impossible to keep people up because it may very well be. Stuff in Bardam's hits like a truck if the tank isn't using gear from Bardam's because there is a huge defense stat spike. Ala Mhigo has a couple of mobs (like the Avengers) that hit surprisingly hard and if you get a huge room pull can turn into a mess quickly. DPS can help or hinder you. Tank cooldown usage is pretty important.
There's always more that we can do to heal better (except the top 1%, maybe, but I'm sure not in that group!), but that doesn't mean its all on you. If you get a run where all you can do is spam Cure 2 to keep the tank up, then do that. It happens sometimes.
You're on my data center, so if you want to try running together sometime, I can tank one of the ones you have trouble with and see how it goes. :) -
11-04-2017, 11:45 AMCynfaelI’ll try to catch up with you soon so we can run something. Don’t give up yet :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tinythinker
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11-04-2017, 12:20 PMtinythinkerThanks for the kind offer. It's not all on me in any dungeon run as there are always three other players, but 1) failing gets in your head sometimes which creates its own "bad luck" and 2) after a large enough sample size you have to admit you are a significant part of the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tridus
The head of my wee FC offered a week ago to take me into Skalla, which I had been avoiding, with he as tank and another FC member as a RDM. We got a random BLM from DF. My goal was to practice the advice from my FC and this thread and I was told my FC tank wouldn't be as squishy as a lot of the DF tanks, and... it went badly. He was as "squishy" (or non-squishy) as the rest. Which means the others probably weren't bad at all.
I think the tank died like 3-4 times (party wipes) and I died two additional times. The worst run since I tried a F2P MMORPG 3 1/2 years after banning myself from such games because of various reasons I had heard about (expense, learning curve, elitism, time-sink/addiction, etc.). Some game called RIFT. I was some class that had death imagery, having fun, even running group stuff at lower levels. Then apparently I was in a run where roles mattered. I was the tank, but didn't even know what a tank was (or any other part of the trinity, let alone taunting, enmity, etc). So that still gets #1 worst run ever which ended with an abandon and the words "Tank, you are stupid" :cool:
As an aside, not that anyone has suggested this, but I didn't create this thread out of a desire for pity from myself or from others. I figured though that I am not the only one with this kind of issue as a healer, whether WHM or SCH or AST. But when people talk a lot about how WHM is easy mode, or how healers get bored in leveling dungeons, it can create an impression that if you struggle you must have chosen the wrong job. Even if I forever stay a crappy healer for any content after HW, hopefully the advice and kind words will echo on to other people. -
11-04-2017, 05:15 PMMoroMurasaki
I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth but I think maybe Tridus, myself and another DPS friend could take you through a few things to at least try to give you some input on what you're doing in terms of WHM healing. Tridus and I both main WHM and while we aren't super hardcore by any means I think we could give you some insight about dungeon healing for sure. If Tridus tanks, you heal and me and our friend DPS I think we could certainly try to evaluate where you're having trouble and give advice based on that.
You've got me on discord, let me know if you're up for it. I'll try to organize the rest for one night in the coming week or so.
I honestly think with as much effort and genuine desire to do well as you're putting into this there is no way we can't find some ways to help you out. This isn't pity or anything, all I see is a healer who needs to be able to take the training wheels off in a safe enviroment and I think we can do that as a group. Confidence is a big part of healing (especially healing while doing DPS) and you can't get that together until you have some positive runs under your belt.
Let me know. Hope I can help! -
11-04-2017, 07:09 PMTridusYeah, I get that. People also say that the two primals in 4.0 were super easy, but Susano Ex kept kicking me in the face for weeks until I figured it out. "Easy" is a relative term, although it doesn't always sound like that on the forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinythinker
Ouch. Yeah, that's rough. But that's a good reason to run with some folks here, simply because it's easier for us to see what's going wrong if we're there in person. :)Quote:
I think the tank died like 3-4 times (party wipes) and I died two additional times.
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11-04-2017, 08:36 PMwinsockFor what it's worth, I think you're stepping in the right direction. Healing is the priority and the reason you are there. DPS is great, but also secondary. Parties are usually pretty understanding that big pulls may require big heals and big heals negatively impact your DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinythinker
I wouldn't forget about DPS altogether of course. When you're healing, focus on anticipating damage (starting a cast prior to dmg landing), being time efficient (i.e. don't use cure I), and limiting overheal (throttle the spam). Your opportunities for DPS will become more apparent over time. -
11-04-2017, 10:23 PMtinythinkerI like to heal. One of my fav quests was for AST where literally your objective was to go around healing NPC soldiers who were out of combat and sitting at their camp. No battle, just heal these characters. I don't try to do DPS because I am bored, I try to stick to my rule of ABC (*flashback to Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glenn Ross*) -- Always Be Casting. If things are smooth and no one seems like they are in any serious danger, I do DPS on whatever healer job I'm on at the time. So while I may make mistakes or have bad luck on boss fights or trial fights on off nights, I usually feel pretty comfortable in making choices. No giant cluster of mobs to worry about. The only thing there is that I wish I could always see what the boss is casting even when the boss isn't targeted so that I don't switch back from the tank to see that "Super-Tank-Destroyer-Cleave" is already 90% done casting :p Yeah there are some physical gestures but I can get tunnel vision and don't know every boss by heart, so the text really helps when I see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
In Heavensward (I was here initially for a few months in Spring 2016), I would usually just use Aero and Stone on trash pulls when I wasn't healing on my WHM. Tanks were synched and knew the fights and the DPS were synched and blowing everything away. So i just did my little thing on WHM and SCH and even though I knew there was more to learn, it was fine. No real complaints, at least not to my face. But now, Holy spam is generally expected to help mitigate damage by stunning mobs and helping to burn them down faster. Even well-geared, well-played tanks seem squishier (to me), and sometimes the AoE from the DPS is lacking. So, I was trying to find new ways to be helpful.
But yeah, I think I need to go back more to just healing pulls for leveling dungeons for a while since I keep getting dropped in 4.x content. I am getting good practice at doing the Holy spam thing in the 50/60 roulette, so maybe that will eventually translate over :) -
11-04-2017, 10:41 PMtinythinkerQuote:
Originally Posted by Cynfael
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
Thanks for the offers. I will keep an eye out for you. I play on Eastern U.S. time, and weekdays I usually am online for gaming at most from 6/7pm to 10-11pm and sometimes less, but weekends are usually much more open.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tridus
Basically I like to heal and healers have short queues, so it works with my limited schedule (which can sometimes be far less than the hours above). But if I ever do give up on healing (or a least on the notion of maining a healing job) I would definitely try to find another role. I do this for fun, which for me includes being useful and making progress, so I'll keep searching for a good fit. -
11-08-2017, 06:55 PMMinako_Nightsong
When I started to level my white mage through Stormblood I was having a lot of problems on the first pull of Bardam's Meddle and the last half of Doman Castle. It got very discouraging and I got some of the meanest comments that frankly, made me consider stop playing altogether.
I then started to see a pattern. Almost all of these wipes were on multiple trash pack pulls, many had loose mobs, and these two dungeons were also "leveling" dungeons. I was getting tanks who were leveling and had the gear of a leveler that were pulling as a tank would at an endgame dungeon they out-geared or was synced into. A great many of them were also pulling these packs then running out of the party's range.
I know myself and I do have a problem with my focus/attention but after some honest reflection, these were mostly not my fault. So I would encourage you to examine your own play and be sure you are only fixing mistakes you are making and not over-correcting for the mistakes of others. -
11-09-2017, 02:54 PMEaMett
Like many have said, don't use Bardam as a reference. It's much harder than most expert stuff.
When healing it's really easy to blame yourself for other people's shortcomings. Kinda comes with the job unfortunately. Minako speaks the truth you should listen to her.
If it's any help, my "pull rotation" is usually Largesse > Regen on tank > swiftcast > medica II > Asylum > Aero III > Assize > presence of mind + thin air > holy. Then I tetra, bene, divine benison, or cure II as needed. The combination of the 3 HoTs is usually good enough to keep the tank up with the assize, the HoT ticks during the first holy stun and tetra+bene.
I readjust if the tank is particularly squishy (less or no holy spam) or if the dps is low (keep an eye on mana).
I'm also on Faerie and on Eastern time so feel free to hit me up if you want to fool around in dungeons or go grab some omega normal gear. Sounds like you need a bit of fun time to get back into the vibe of healing :) -
11-09-2017, 03:09 PMCynfael
Medica II doesn’t really add value to a single-target healing situation; it takes a full 30 seconds of ticking to equal the potency of a single Cure II. The GCD, the MP, and the Swiftcast are best reserved for other uses.
It may seem desirable to have as many HoTs going as possible, but the math doesn’t work for Medica II just for the tank, unfortunately. -
11-09-2017, 03:47 PMEaMett
Well, you get the PI ogcd as bonus 150 potency, and in practice it does make a difference since you can definitely notice when it isn't there. Considering the Largesse frame things add up to about 120 potency per second (~17% of which is medica II). Also lets not forget the various dps damage clipping that may occur.
As for the gcd argument, medica II is placed during the pull phase, so you're running. It's wasted time anyways. Having to cure II later on will however cost you a gcd at the very least.
The mana is pretty insignificant given the management tool set whm has.
Keeping Swiftcast is however a valid point. But honestly, I would rather use swiftcast in this manner 10 times rather than hold onto it and only use it a couple of times.
I understand your argument and where you're coming from but in light of the above I still think increasing your passive HPS is preferable to holding onto your mana and swiftcast. Of course the above is situational. Sometimes swiftcast + holy is a good combo so you need to adjust accordingly but I find those instances increasingly rare. -
11-09-2017, 10:33 PMCynfaelIf we're talking about trash pulls, pre-pull Medica II introduces another issue where the tank has to be concerned about mobs that haven't been tagged yet trying to stray. Medica II just isn't impactful enough for a single target to warrant all the fuss IMO; one tank doesn't require enough healing that the HoT component that equals slightly more than one Cure I (assuming all ticks over 30 seconds restore actual HP) is going to make a difference. I don't factor in Largesse because it works the same on all GCD heals.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
MP management isn't a hardship for WHM these days, but if you're maximizing AoE, you'll still have to care somewhat about being efficient.
Swiftcast can always be used to good effect for DPS or to move while healing, so holding onto it shouldn't be an issue. On a side note, the healers who Swiftcast+Protect at the start of the dungeon and don't Swiftcast for the remainder drive me up the wall.
In the end, if you definitely prefer to use Medica II in this manner, that's fine for your playstyle. I'm only pushing back because I'd discourage newer players from using it this way. -
11-09-2017, 11:50 PMEaMett
Well, like many large pull situations you usually need to get some healing in during the pull without grabbing aggro yourself, so all the usual rules apply. It's rare but does happen that the tank struggles with pull aggro. Adjust as required (healer motto).
A lot of it is situational anyways, if you have good dps in the party, your own dps window is usually tiny so you'll probably forego Aero III, asylum, and in my case medica II in exchange for a couple more holy casts.
I was merely giving a more comfortable, optional, opener for people to play with, and then built a case that it wasn't as insignificant as it might first appear and you made it out to be. Eyeballing it, it's about a 450-500 potency passive heal on the tank with an added 150 potency ogcd heal and an upfront 240 potency heal during the pull (+ any bonus healing on dps getting clipped by mechanics). The added dps uptime from this makes up for the drawbacks imo. Especially in light of the timing of your other skills which line up perfectly.
I certainly wouldn't discourage newer players from trying this. It -does- provide added comfort and a lot of the drawbacks to this are usually non-issues. If you ever find yourself gasping for mana or desperately needing/wanting swiftcast for whatever reasons, you can simply opt out.
I can also think of a few places where you will want to opt out. Like if your tank makes one pull from the first to the second boss of Ala Mhigo, you'll need your swiftcast.
Anyways, just so we're clear, don't refresh it for the tank's sole purpose, it's only good as a run up cast. And please don't use this strategy on bosses, the thread is about keeping the tank up on large-ish pulls. For all the rest Cynfael is 100% correct, it's a waste. -
11-10-2017, 10:47 AMtinythinkerQuote:
Originally Posted by Minako_Nightsong
Thanks for the encouragement. I've run enough 4.x dungeons now (including one run with two FC members) to know that I am a large factor in what's happening. Yes some tanks aren't so great and some DPS are weak on AoE, but, I really just don't seem to be able to reliably pull off big pulls with holy spam. I have to try to just heal mostly or exclusively in the newer content. That's OK. I'm playing a healer and I like casting healing spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaMett
(Oh, and deciding to do a "simple" 50/60 dungeon on SCH to get the rust off and try something different confirms it's not just WHM I have issues with :p Though I *can* do big pulls with holy spam reliably in 50/60 roulette even if my Darkflare/Bane DoTS game is weak in those dungeons, so yay.)
UPDATE: Woohoo