Wich one is better, why , and where can I find correct information about these stats ?
From FFXIV char description, Tenacity should be the main stats for tanks, but lots of people told me to go for Direct Hit Rate instead... Why ?
Give your opinions please, I love to theorycraft.,...
CRIT RATE vs DET vs TENACITY vs DIRECT HIT
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10-16-2017, 01:32 PMFodemhouseCRIT RATE vs DET vs TENACITY vs DIRECT HIT
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10-16-2017, 01:52 PMSyzzleSpark
DH is best because it provides the most damage, which is what fight design in this game rewards. Damage/DPS>everything else, regardless of role. After DH is Det, then Ten (been a while since I checked scaling, Det may be roughly equal to Ten at this point). Crit will be better in the future when we have more of it. IIRC DH scales linearly, which is why it is so good now. Not sure about Det/Ten. Crit is exponential, so it gets better the more of it you have, but we don't have enough on gear right now to reach that breakpoint.
For the most part, the mitigation component of Tenacity is only useful during bleeding edge progression and even then only on fights that have very harsh HP/healing/mitigation checks. As soon as you get more HP/defense/magic defense through even just 1 or 2 minor left-side ilvl upgrades, the mitigation benefits of Ten become dated/extraneous.
I would say that even if you are a very casual player, Tenacity becomes useless compared to DH/Det the moment you clear a fight. Think of it like training wheels. This is why you will probably hear a lot of people telling you to use Tenacity builds on your gear, but always meld DH no matter what, because it will continue being useful even after you clear. If you meld Ten, eventually that money/time spent will be wasted, whereas melding DH, Det, or in the future, Crit, will continue being useful. You don't want to meld something that has a limited shelf life and depreciates over time.
I see you are a GLA/PLD so here is a PLD BiS I threw together to illustrate what I mean.
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/13KDK
This set favors pieces with Ten over all else. If there is no Ten on either the Genji/Lost Allagan pieces, pick whichever one has no Skill Speed. However all the melds are DH. A build like this would get you the best of both worlds if you're not aiming to be super hardcore.
For my builds, I usually simply default to whatever has no Skill Speed on it regardless of Tenacity, and then meld DH from there, but that is because I personally hate Skill Speed because of my latency (damn DC relocation) and because I play DRK. -
10-16-2017, 02:21 PMkonpachizaraki
if you're confident in your ability to stay alive in dps stance then pick direct hit, but if you're a turtle tank i say tenacity works best for you
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10-16-2017, 06:57 PMLlusFor PLD skill speed can really wreck your rotation. DH is still the boss except for WAR which benefits more from a higher CRIT during their burst (still need that DH tho).Quote:
Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark
Stat weights for specific jobs is still pretty speculative apparently, but here's a good resource https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/6780...eborn/75525864
Here's a better resource: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=923370354 -
10-16-2017, 09:56 PMDeus_ex_Machina
With the gear's stat point pool we have now, we can't really a single substat stands out.
- Crit are always great, but the bonus potency scales with the amount of stat points you get (minumum +30% potency), with max crit build you are getting roughly that much. But in patch 4.2+ crit will be a definite winner!
- Dhit, only increase your dhit rate (1% every 40 points) and it's always a flat +25% potency. At base tank Dhit stat, (354) you get +0% rate to dhit, so adding dhit to your gears opens you up for dhit chance. So increasing this atm, you get an increase rate with the damage potency nearly equal to crit, on top of your gear's innate crit chance. Also this opens you up for a chance of Diret Crit. (Max dhit tank set will net you around 9.5% increase to you DPS.)
- Determination, right now is equals weight to crit. So you can do a det or crit based on your party comp.
- Tenacity is an omni stat, with increased mitigation, power, and healing receives. At 2000 tenacity, you will get around +7% mitigation, +7% power increase (and around 2.5% increased healing received iirc). (Full tenacity build is ~1.5% lower dps increased compared with full dhit set.) But you also get +7% natual mitigation
As for myself i favor Tenacity > Crit > Dhit > Det. Reasons are:
1. There aren't that much difference in power increased compared with dhit, but i'm also benefiting from the mitigation.
2. When using food, (pork kamui for example) you get +5% of dhit based on your current stat, up to 85 points. unless you have 1700 dhit, you aren't getting the full benefit of the food... -
10-16-2017, 11:42 PMFalgernTenacity increases damage you deal and healing you do as well as reduces damage you take. It does not increase healing you receive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_ex_Machina
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10-16-2017, 11:51 PMEyvhokan
Like Direct Hit is like Crit, but not, Tenacity is like Determination but not?
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10-17-2017, 12:32 AMDeus_ex_Machinaare you absolutely sure? That's what i understood from the descriptionQuote:
Originally Posted by Falgern
If healing formula is similar between all jobs, STR is the scale on pld clemency and WAR's equilibrium, similar to INT is the healing for RDM, but i could be using old data formula...
https://i.imgur.com/YrbLYLX.png -
10-17-2017, 01:46 AMjjleon_2It's self heals that are buffed from tenacity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_ex_Machina
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10-17-2017, 02:53 AMBaciThis x1000. There are still so many people who think it increases healing received due to bad wording from SEQuote:
Originally Posted by Falgern
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10-17-2017, 06:41 AMBluexBird
Right now, Tenacity isn't going to save you most of the time. If you end up dying, you were probably going to die with or without the extra Tenacity you chose not to take (via melds or substitute equipment). So if you're thinking about going for Tenacity because it's gonna make you "live longer", you're just fooling yourself. Here's an example - the only situation Tenacity will ever save you is if you needed an extra 4k-6k HP to live through an attack. Ask yourself how often that happens and then consider if you actually need it or not. Tenacity does also increase your damage by an amount, I think somewhat compared to Determination, so that's something to take into account as well.
Determination gives you a fixed damage increase, though I'm not sure how much it scales compared to Tenacity. The difference doesn't seem to be considerable, though.
Critical Rate used to be the biggest damage modifier, but they did something to the rates and how much damage you do, making it not as big a priority to get any more of it than what you're already getting from your items.
Then we get to Direct Hit, which tanks are only able to get via melds. But the thing about Direct Hit is that, unlike Critical Hit, if you don't have ANY Direct Hit melds in your equipment, you will NEVER land a Direct Hit! Which is ridiculous. In order enable Direct Hits, you NEED to put in melds. And the more you put, the higher your chances, since it scales linearly. And when you DO land a Direct Hit, you will deal 25% more damage. That's HUGE! Especially if you land one with one of your heavy attacks.
Now on average (as in, if you compared every single fight you ever do), the difference between melding Direct Hit or Tenacity won't be the big. But if you are trying to go for high parses, then Direct Hit is GOD TIER and a MUST HAVE because it will allow you to get lucky parses where you happened to land lots of Direct Hit attacks. And since doing the highest potential damage is all people seem to care about, that is why they tell you to go for Direct Hit.
In other words, if you're going for high parses, get Direct Hit. Otherwise, I don't think it really matters what you get in terms of damage, so you might as well just go for Tenacity. -
10-17-2017, 07:28 AMWyndam
Whatever you do, just don't leave the materia slots empty! At one point Tenacity materia was 1/10th the price of Direct Hit on Malboro. So I started slotting Tenacity, selling Direct Hit if I got it, and now I'm in a position where I can consider putting good materia on even my alt classes.
I'm more of the opinion that 1.3% (the last estimated difference between DH and Ten melds I saw) tank DPS is going to get lost in the noise. When I'm doing 3k DPS and my DPS are each doing 4500, is an extra 39 DPS really going to make much difference? No. Maybe if threat becomes an issue. But threat is solved in much the same manner as mitigation, through properly play and cooldown management. The extra mitigation from Ten gets lost too. The problem is if you keep making that choice over and over again or just leave stats out altogether and that 1.3% becomes something bigger. -
10-17-2017, 08:33 AMFalgernIt works the same way as determination but also reduces damage taken. Tank healing abilities and skills still scale of STR, but tenacity was added to the formula. It does not increase healing you do through attacks such as Souleater or Storm's Path directly but does increase damage and as a result you get more healing. Tenacity improves your character in every aspect of tankingQuote:
Originally Posted by Deus_ex_Machina
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10-17-2017, 12:02 PMFodemhouse
Lets say I would complete all slots I can with materia...
That will be the order in terms of priority right ?
STR > Direct hit > Tenacity > Determination -
10-18-2017, 04:44 AMWyndamUnless you have a specific reason for doing otherwise, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fodemhouse
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10-19-2017, 02:22 AMTaikaI just started playing PLD and looked what the highest ranking PLD in FFlogs had in melds: STR > DH > Crit. That's what I'm going with. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fodemhouse
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10-19-2017, 05:37 AMBluexBird
Yeah but you can only meld STR on your accessories. You can put DH in accessories if you're using crafted ones. And on your armor and weapon, you can go Direct Hit all the way with no limit. So when it comes to melds, it's just STR and DH. Dunno where the hell you're getting crit from. :I
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10-19-2017, 05:48 AMAanaThat particular pld might be min-maxing to his specific group. If they group gets enough crit buffs (battle litany, sch buff, etc) then the value of crit damage obviously goes up if you are getting inflated crit rates from your comp. If you are going for the #1 slot across all servers you can afford to minmax to that obscene degree. For the rest of use just meld Str>DH. The rest of the list is only applicable in picking body A vs body B for actual gear. But melds are absurdly straight forward right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BluexBird
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10-19-2017, 06:08 AMTaikaYeah good point, I didn't even think about there not being need for anything but STR and DH. So for us non-min-maxing newbies it's just STR on right side where we can, and then DH in all other slots. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aana