While I appreciate new wards for all the housing districts coming in 4.2, and this is very much a step in the right direction, this is only going to be a short term solution at best as the unaddressed issue with housing (being land barons) is going to cause the exact same issue we saw with Shirogane to appear AGAIN.
SE needs to take action to kill FFXIVs house flipping market, or they will never be able to add enough wards because all the land barons will do is further increase their holdings while the rest of us get screwed.
That's why they need to restrict personal houses to one per server.
That's why appartments need access to yard space (so we have true instanced housing).
That's why there needs to be a random, invisibile, timer that lasts between 1 to 24 hours when house is released so the risk involved with getting your house from a house flipper is so great, that many will not want to do just that.
That's also why the alt shell FCs intended solely to take up housing slots need to be dealt with.
We need ALL of these things with the additional wards in order to fix this issue, as any of these fixes by themselves isn't going to resolve the issue.
New Wards Alone Aren't Going to Solve the Housing Issue
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10-13-2017, 07:11 AMAlmagnus1New Wards Alone Aren't Going to Solve the Housing Issue
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10-13-2017, 03:59 PMAmomomo
Even though the housing situation as it is, shouldn't put all the blame on to Yoshi P! He may be the director, however, there are many situation and decisions that is not up to a director to make. For example, putting in resources into a casual content (e.g. housing) at the cost of main contents such as MSQ and raids, as well as allocating additional server space and financial costs. From what I have read from various forums this week, adding wards isn't as easy as pushing a button. However, it seems like the negative feedback for patch 4.1 is much more negative and wide spread than previous housing releases, which hopefully (however slim the chance may be) will push the game development team to have enough valid reasons to provide long term solutions to the existing housing problem.
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10-13-2017, 04:36 PMAlastair_HelyousWhile you do have a strong point, it's like a lot of people and me have said before. The system of the bloody thing was wrong from its conception. The fact they claim constantly there's no solution (due to server/ps4/infrastructure/<insert-excuse-here> limitations) while smaller/f2p games such as LotRO/Warframe have solved that eons ago is also very frustrating, given that this is a p2p game. And a big one at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amomomo
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10-13-2017, 04:40 PMPence
'Although this issue will be addressed in today’s hotfix, we understand this does not address the underlying issue. In light of the feedback we have received, we will be working to bolster our servers in preparation for additional wards in the Lavender Beds, the Goblet, Mist, and Shirogane by patch 4.2.
We’ve also received considerable feedback as to how they should be added, and we will be making an announcement outlining the number of new wards and how they will be sold after reviewing said feedback. To prevent speculation, we will refrain from releasing information until absolutely necessary. We ask for your patience and understanding until we can provide you with these details.' -
10-13-2017, 04:43 PMAmomomo
I agree with you 100% on that it is a faulty concept from the beginning. Heck, when I tried to secure housing, my eyeballs almost dropped from my sockets when I was asked to pay absurd prices for house relinquishment. I think, with the 4.1 failure (personal opinion), the FFXIV dev team can no longer mask over the current housing system flaw as more and more players speak up about the current problems (ranging from RMT, monopolizing, limited supply, and more).
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10-13-2017, 04:50 PMAmomomo
Yes, in Yoshi-P's announcement, he promised that the dev team will review feedbacks. However, players who have long struggled with housing issues are very cautious in placing trust and faith in the dev team actually coming up with a satisfactory solution (of course you can't please everyone). Housing issues have been brought to their attention many times over the past few years, however, no solutions were offered other than extended wards last year. I believe this is one of the main cause for players not giving 100% faith to the implementation of a feasible solution. More than likely, due to the dev team requiring to work on other patch contents, we can only hope for additional wards added as a temporary fix to the current issues.
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10-13-2017, 04:55 PMTellciel
Past years is a bullshit response, FFXI had it given to every player freely in a apartment in your city. Data my ass, people have 6 tetrabyte harddrives now. When FFXI came out people only had 100 gigabyte.
Google orders a 40 exabyte VAN for every thing daily.
You don't know technology.
You say no space, hahahah~ what a joke. -
10-13-2017, 04:56 PMPence
They've already announced they will be changing the system somewhat, I'm sure they put a lot of thought into releasing a statement like that for housing knowing that if they don't deliver -something- other than additional wards now all hell will break lose and it'll be a disaster for them. Faith my child.
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10-13-2017, 05:00 PMAmomomoI sure hope so, good sir ;u;...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pence
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10-13-2017, 05:37 PMGriffey
Is not the issue of house flipping one within the community?
I suppose if we had sooooo many houses as to make them less in demand people would be less inclined to buy land just to sell it back on for profit. But at the end of the day, especially on Cerberus, the amount of names in red when going through the wards list (or people who have bought land but not built a house) is far greater than those in green.
How would we solve this? Maybe limit housing to one per account as opposed to per character? -
10-13-2017, 06:01 PMAmomomoUnfortunately players have limited protection outside of the game, as most of the house trading are done outside of the game in websites such as the FFXIV Housing Sub-reddit page. Unless you have detailed screenshots of the entire transaction IN GAME, in addition that the asking price was outrageous, GMs generally don't really lift a finger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffey
I greatly support this idea. Woes to housing monopolizers who owns multiple houses! There are many other solutions if you browse through the existing housing threads, including having instanced personal housing and/or placing character achievement requirements to prevent level 1 shell alts from acquiring houses. However some solutions can be a bit fanciful...Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffey
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10-13-2017, 06:03 PMAlmagnus1I kinda outlined several additional fixes in the OP =3Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
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10-13-2017, 10:00 PMPenthea
I am wondering if this is something to appease the players a bit until something that is really game changing comes along. I hope so.
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10-13-2017, 11:10 PMMikki
I'm hoping that they will make some changes to apartments to make them more appealing and that they will lock housing to one house per person per server. But until they state specifically what they plan to do, how many wards they plan to add and what restrictions they want to set in place... it's a bit premature to say that the issue won't be solved. Certainly just adding wards won't solve it, but that wasn't the only thing they said they were going to do. Soooo, lets have some faith and pray for something miles better than what we currently have!
I was fortunate enough to get a house in Shirogane, but it sure would be nice not to stress out at the thought of losing internet for a month for some reason or another and losing it! Long term solutions to this crisis would be in absolutely everyone's best interest (except rotten resellers) so lets hope it happens! :)
Although a small part of me does pessimistically wonder if they only paid attention to this because they screwed up the relocation feature and that's a lot harder to pretend not to notice and sweep under the rug than just the lack of housing plots available. But I'll just kick that thought under the bed. I like to try to stay positive. -
10-13-2017, 11:19 PMMikkiOne per server would be best I feel. Although personally I think one per account with an FC house too is plenty but I do know some people who actively play on two different servers with different friends and would argue that they'd like to have housing on both. *shrugs*Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffey
I'm on Zalera which is really small. A day or two after 4.1 dropped, there were still houses in lavender beds, mist and goblet. Despite this though, I saw some plots near my house in Shirogane just ....sitting there. I checked the owners. Lo and behold, today finally they built a house on the land. Only..........the person who owns it now is different. Which means of course... someone resold it. On ZALERA. A server which still had plots available in other housing wards for 2 days after 4.1 dropped. I'm disappointed and I wonder if I should report it, but I don't want to cause trouble for the people who spent tons of gil to get their house showing that they clearly really wanted it. -
10-13-2017, 11:19 PMLady_Venus
Making new wards with the same setup wont solve anything... I KNOW i will be camping my screen all the maintenance hours, log INSTANTLY to only be chain booted out of the game for 10,20 mins then log to find everyhting purchased and 80% is personal houses again!!
Make personal and FC houses in different wards!
Ward 13 (FC housing Ward)
Ward 14 (Personal housing Ward) .. etc.
Let the alts fight each other in their wards and get them off our backs.. we want to get our fc house! -
10-13-2017, 11:24 PMMikkiBut you'd still be fighting alts. There were some really lovely plots I've been eyeing for my FC for months but sadly many times after investigating I was met with the realization that they were just shell FCs squatting on the house. An FC with two people in it, both level 1 characters and the house locked most of the time. I wondered what the point of that even was, honestly. You can't enjoy that house at all. Why are you squatting on it? Probably to resell. It seems common to sell a house under the guise of selling an FC. Other times, it was unlocked and I'm guessing they had fun decorating it. So the point here is......... you'll still be competing with alts, scalpers and all of that junk no matter what.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_Venus
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10-14-2017, 12:30 AMLady_Venusbut alteast it will limit it to an extent.. you still have to have a lvl 6 FC to be able to buy an FC house... thats harder compared to just an alt running in and taking a personal house with no requirements (except for having gil and being able to access the housing areas) and another nice solution people requested 1 personal house per account.. or 1 personal house per server (for those people who have characters on different servers) along with FC wards and personal wards.. combine all those things and we will make the housing system better and less painful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikki
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10-14-2017, 02:01 AMPentheaActually I think they need to be also at least level 50 and have a certain gc rank. The same prerequisite to buy fc rooms, with the exception of price of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_Venus
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10-14-2017, 02:24 AMMikkiThis. You need to be level 50 and have the rank of second serpent lieutenant. If people really want to hoard houses, they'll do it. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
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10-14-2017, 02:28 AMPentheaOh yea it's not diffcult to do at all, just a bit time consuming. Was just trying to dispell the myth that a lvl 10 player who just got the quest to view Mist can buy a plot right away if they have the cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikki
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10-14-2017, 04:34 AMArazehlCertain requirements met before owning FC housing.
SE knew exactly what would happen the minute the 4.1 patch went live, regarding the lack of housing availability. This has been an issue since housing was introduced into the game. Also, this should have been addressed long ago, before the ugly, got even uglier. Putting a band aid on it doesn't help and SE knows this.
There should also be guidelines for owning an FC house. At least 4 active members (player's alt excluded from these numbers) to constitute the right to even own an FC house. Players who fall below that and are not actively recruiting a limited number of fc members, aren't using the FC house as it was originally intended. Things like raiding, role playing, in game progression, crafting, etc....to be used for a set number of accounts and it's players, is how FC housing should be, but currently isn't. As it stands now too many players who label their house as an FC, really consider it more their personal home and exploit it and those benefits that come with it. -
10-14-2017, 05:53 AMOkamimaru
Most likely they will limit housing to 1 personal & 1 FC house per account when they add more wards but won't say anything until they figure out how to implement such a restriction and how to handle players with multiple houses on a single account... of course even if there were enough wards for everyone to have both and they did restrict housing by account people would complain about not getting the plot they wanted
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10-14-2017, 09:23 AMAmomomoOnly if they WOULD limit housing to 1 personal/FC! House monopolizers and flippers are going to lose their shit and their dozens of properties and start a mini riot. Fine by me, bring on the fight lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okamimaru
Though if SE did implement considerable measures, even if I end up missing out on the plot, I would have less reasons to complain. -
10-14-2017, 10:20 AMKrotoanQuote:
Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida
FFXIV FORUMS: OMG SPECULATE LIKE CRAZY!
.. People.. please wait till we know what they're actually doing to lose your minds and condemn their idea. -
10-14-2017, 11:23 AMAlmagnus1Maybe we all know that if SE doesn't take HARSH measures towards the land barons, then the post is a lot of fluff surrounding adding more wards to the neighborhoods....Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotoan
which will quickly get snapped up by the land barons and screw us all (again). Exactly like what happened with Shirogane. -
10-14-2017, 11:30 AMVahlnirSpeculators gonna speculate. This could actually beneficial if it provides decent feedback. As to the topic, if they somehow make wards generate on their own it COULD alleviate much of the demand, but it mostly depends on how much they're willing to upgrade the servers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotoan
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10-14-2017, 11:44 AMRayneLittlewinkle
How long is the wait for 4.2 think it will be before January?
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10-14-2017, 11:46 AMVahlnir3-4 months, so earliest would be January, latest February. If I were to guess...late January.Quote:
Originally Posted by RayneLittlewinkle
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10-14-2017, 01:50 PMKrotoanYEAH BUT WHAT IF THEY DO THIS!!??!Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
...
is what that looks like to me.
I get they have a bad track record. I understand you don't order pizza from the pizza place that's given you the wrong pizza 3 times in a row. I'm not seeing people give constructive ideas or criticism. Mostly what I'm seeing is people poo-pooing them even TRYING to do something with wards. Maybe they've got it, maybe they don't. I get you might see more negative than positive, but along with every thing they've done horribly they've still managed a game we all come back and play for some reason (maybe it's stockholm syndrome?). Personally I like a lot of what they've done or at least tried to do so I'm happy to wait and see.
Yup. But.. we dunno? Useful feedback I can support, even useful criticism but what I'm mostly seeing is unmitigated hate for a briefly announced, unknown future implementation. Not really helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
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10-14-2017, 01:52 PMAmomomoI don't think people are speculating. Rather, they are putting forth possible (some feasible, others absurd) suggestions for the dev team to take notice of and perhaps even consider noting down as solutions for future housing. I am sure that there was something about the dev team listening to suggestions in Yoshi-P's 4.1 housing annoucement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotoan
Futhermore, I don't think I have enough faith to even "speculate" 4.2 housing changes. Speculate, for me, means to "foresee", but frankly I am very cautious in blindly believe that a positive solution will be proposed in the near future (4.2). -
10-14-2017, 02:08 PMAlmagnus1I think you miss the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotoan
All I'm saying is that if SE does not take action that will end house flipping and the land barons, then adding more neighborhoods will accomplish NOTHING.
If you doubt me, take a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXIVhousingmarket/ and note how many properties for Shirogane are already listed. That's four properties up for sale in Shirogane at the time of writing - and four people (or FCs) that have been screwed out of a house because people want to make a ton of gil and exploit SE's screwed up the housing limit rules. And the kicker in all of this: I could make a very strong case that house flipping is probably part of the RMT system due to the insane amount of currency that exchanges hands in one of these transactions.
I mean, what's the point in adding houses if your countermeasures don't solve the land baron issue? -
10-14-2017, 02:29 PMKrotoanI understand what you're implying, but you're ignoring what I'm saying. How do you know they aren't implementing something to solve the "land baron" problem? You don't, and neither do I. Lets wait till more concrete announcement to start picking it apart?Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
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10-14-2017, 03:09 PMAlmagnus1Why wait to start hashing out ideas and providing feedback on possible solutions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotoan
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10-14-2017, 03:16 PMMaero
We have waited over 2 years from SE with no solutions... Just stating it
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10-14-2017, 05:16 PMKrotoanBecause it's like digging a tunnel without knowing what you're digging through. The basic idea is the same : make hole through stuff. But the details REALLY MATTER.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
By all means post suggestions , honestly I have very little to say against anything you've posted, but MANY people are just complaining about the announcement without any information. That last response was only directed at your response to me. -
10-14-2017, 05:52 PMAmomomoI agree strongly with Maero. The dev teams didn't really provide any solutions over the past few years (nor took any visible notice), since the housing issue never affected as many players as it did in 4.1. There are reasons why players are hesitant in simply taking Yoshi-P's announcement for granted. One of which is to prevent having a greater disappointment when 4.2 hits and realize only temporary solutions are made (e.g. additional wards).Quote:
Originally Posted by Maero
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10-15-2017, 01:09 AMOkamimaru
SE will ultimately do what will piss off the least amount of players... instanced housing will piss off people with yards (and negate all the work done to make neighborhoods) so that's probably not going to happen... the current status quo is also not viable... so that pretty much leaves limiting housing to one personal one fc house per account... this wouldn't stop house flippers tho... so they would need to make it so you can't relinquish land at will (demolition timers only)... the only other options would be making it so workshops and gardens are no longer locked behind housing or making apartments fc friendly and allowing cross breeding from flower pots
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10-15-2017, 02:44 AMVahlnirYou're right, we don't know. To be honest, the backlash they received kinda forced their hand so it might not exactly be a full plan quite yet. None of it was anticipated imo so they probably need to get their collective minds brainstorming. Time will tell, hopefully they'll learn from past mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krotoan
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10-15-2017, 03:32 AMMikkiThe major problem is the fact that you need an FC to do airship stuff. I know that my friend and I are basically in a two people FC (there are actually 4 of us but the other two come and go) and the reason is that we want to do what we want to do with the airships and joining another FC, it's unlikely that they would let us take over the company workshop and let us do whatever we wanted, especially if it's things for our own gains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arazehl
I'd love to be in a bigger FC though. Just sad that I can't if I want to be able to use the company workshop selfishly. pfft.