4.1 patch notes

My 4 points:
More exp for players doing pvp, really?
Chat not back yet
tbn still didnt get a nerf
but instead you kill drg and smn burst (specially smn).
https://gyazo.com/57116ca7904c7262165c209b3bd7212f

Even more reason for people to bot PVP. Awesome....thanks SE.

It says "PvP experience" so I think that means the EXP that you get that's applied to your PvP rank, not your job level?

Thank god Deorbit got changed (removed) in PvP!

It was such an inferior cooldown in Feast compared to what all the other healers had. Sure it had its clutch uses sometimes but an entire cooldown being so situational for a healer when skill slots are so limited is awful. Plus it had a lot of issues besides. Excited that we can do something about cards too with Minor Arcana. I like that the different cards actually change to specific arcanum. It will be fun to utilise those cards with the added effects.

Stoked to get back in there with the changes.


I find it weird how they nerfed SMN burst. It wasn't that much stronger than any other burst?

Both ranged lost their report (battlefield march?), to give party mp and tp, does this mean Muse additional skill will be a must?

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Originally Posted by Graci

It says "PvP experience" so I think that means the EXP that you get that's applied to your PvP rank, not your job level?

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Interesting....

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Originally Posted by Graci

It says "PvP experience" so I think that means the EXP that you get that's applied to your PvP rank, not your job level?

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i am pretty sure it is pvp experience, of your rank, when you complete a match "you gain 111111 pvp experience" is the one for your pvp rank

As a PVP RDM I'm not sure I like being given Vercure tbh. The other changes are good I guess, though Im gonna miss Manafication and 100% uptime Monomachy. That's like a 10% damage nerf to all abilities.

The smn nerf was not needed. At all.
It's bad enough smns can already lose aether trail stacks with a badly timed fester or clever cover from plds.

Even if a smn did their full burst with fester, ED x2, followed with DF it would still only do 5,500 which is about 40% on an unshielded ranged dps. It may seem like a lot but smn is staggered by almost two seconds because they have to do enter dreadwyrm trance and then do death flare. I've done enough matches now to tell you straight up that drks/plds and healers always have plenty of time to throw a shield/cover up to negate atleast the deathflare. Then they're staggered -again- when summoning bahamut.

I don't deny smn does bring a lot of consistent dmg but it's difficult enough bursting as it was with the current MP cost of applying dots. A smn in most situations can really only DoT two targets at a time. If they try to do anymore they'll usually go 0 on MP even with MP recovery trait and Muse. In many cases a summoner can't always switch to an open target and fester them because sometimes the dots had worn off and you wouldn't be able to fester and we all know how useless smn becomes if they wiff. In those cases we had to rely on doing a double or triple ED to make up for not being able to do that fester.

As for smns being able to do fester, ED x2, DT, DF and then follow with AF, Bahamut, enkindle, fester, ED x2 again at the very start of a match. Yes, it's incredibly powerful but you blow your full load and for the most part you wont get that sort of sync up again for the rest of the match. Not to mention it's incredibly obvious to see that combo and can be blocked in many cases. If you are trying to wait for the sync again you're just being dead weight at that point for a good 2 minutes and possibly missing -alot- of opportunities.

tl;dr
Energy Drain was fine as it was. If anything they've just made it more annoying for smns to help assist with their partners during tight moments.
They also yet again, unintentionally buffed TBN in most set ups by making these changes to everyone elses burst.

Whats wrong with dragoon in pvp? Whyd it lose burst? I havent played in a while but the patch notes showed a lot of potency increases in most skills. Why isnt that a good thing?(i know why burst is good, im asking what they did to mess it up)

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

Whats wrong with dragoon in pvp? Whyd it lose burst? I havent played in a while but the patch notes showed a lot of potency increases in most skills. Why isnt that a good thing?(i know why burst is good, im asking what they did to mess it up)

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I guessing since they only need 3 eyes or whatever now to get Life of the Dragon. Less burst, but more often? But I have no idea as I don't know how Dragoon works.

Wow they nerfed dragoons -again-? And that summoner nerf. Lmaooooooo

These people have no clue what's going on. -None-.

Why do you hate drg so much т_т

Looking over it again, while AST, WAR and RDM, the 3 jobs that are considered weakest right now got some buffs, they also got nerfed in the areas that was actually good. Less damage and burst for RDM. Less damage for WAR, AST... I guess the buffs there are fine but they didn't have to remove deorbit.

Giving WAR a defensive skill in exchange for damage makes sense, but it is too significant. And doing the same with RDM is a mistake imo. I'm sure with Vercure I'll be able to make some clutch heals but If I do less damage now it doesn't really matter.

I'll just have to test some matches and see how significant it is.

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Originally Posted by Shirolumi

Giving WAR a defensive skill in exchange for damage makes sense, but it is too significant..

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WAR dps was no greater then Pally or DRK as is, not sure what the cooldown time on Thrill of Battle will be, but it will likely be 90 or at best 60 seconds. Which is way to long when compared to what something like TBN can do. This just further puts WAR in a bad spot for PvP.

Now Pally, and Requiescat change, that is interesting. The zero MP cost is pretty big, and feel like it will allow pally's to do burst and still healing well.

On Dragoon, not sure that is a burst nerf. Yes, both Geirskogul and Nastrond lost 500 Pot, but then gained from lower recast to 5 seconds. At 10 seconds, that was way to long to be considered usable twice in one burst window. But 5 seconds is just short enough to be used twice in one window.

Dragoons lose Battle Litany for Dragon Sight, really? I'd rather keep Battle Litany. I don't know how well this tethered buff will do in a pvp environment.

Wow, what a joke.

I hate all of these changes. You nerfed SMN again??? While giving RDM Vercure so, one on one no other DPS will ever be able to kill a RDM?

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Originally Posted by Strywin

Dragoons lose Battle Litany for Dragon Sight, really? I'd rather keep Battle Litany. I don't know how well this tethered buff will do in a pvp environment.

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Will most likely be bad. Tether to a tank? He runs off to mess with the healer, so he loses his 10% damage. Tether to a ranged? Yes, bait that ranged class closer to the enemy so that hard swap will gib him before your healer knows what's going on. At least the Drg will retain the 10% damage even if the tether is broken just like in PvE. It's only the teammate you're tethered to that will suffer.

Um energy drain does give u hp back so yeah you could pretty much 1v1 anybody with it. Also adding the max-potion to the mix so don't know why people are acting surprised about smn small nerf.

What a demented joke.
Dark Knight is the only job that desperately needs a severe nerf.
Yet, they keep crippling Warrior - already the weakest tank in ranked PvP.

Hello. Hello. Hello.
Nice job! Nice job! Nice job!
Good balance! Good balance! Good balance!

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Originally Posted by AdamZ

WAR dps was no greater then Pally or DRK as is, not sure what the cooldown time on Thrill of Battle will be, but it will likely be 90 or at best 60 seconds. Which is way to long when compared to what something like TBN can do. This just further puts WAR in a bad spot for PvP.

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Yeah, that's why I said WAR got nerfed. What I meant with it being to significant of a change. I think giving them just Thrill of Battle without removing Inner Release would've been good.

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Originally Posted by CyanTea

Hello. Hello. Hello.
Nice job! Nice job! Nice job!
Good balance! Good balance! Good balance!

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This is amazing. Imagine what SE would do with FFXIV if we could only use Feast Chat.

Well, the changes are pretty nice and all, but concerning tanks...

Although WAR's damage was roughly the same as DRK's and PLD's, they still had the strongest burst out of the three, thanks to Inner Release (FC>Onslaught>FC>Upheaval).
But I think that it was a good trade for more defensive utility because WAR is terrible at peeling. I'm sure Thrill of Battle is going to be a pretty big buff. The problem is now it's harder to maintain the gauge and still do the same amount of damage.

Requiescat change is wonderful--it helps out PLD's problem of MP starvation. Burst healing is better. But Clemency is still severely lacking. Holy Spirit gauge is nice, but to be stationary, cost MP, and prevent you from doing anything else during its cast, I feel as though it should reward more than 5 gauge. And I think Clemency should also give gauge.

Couple that with the fact that PLDs are tethered to their target during Cover. And Cover eats the gauge once active (especially after its nerf).
They also still have the problem of taking 100% of the damage during Cover, which is dangerous even at 1 medal stack. Salt to the wound, PLDs have cast times, tethers, and no gap closers/knockback/pull-in, they are effectively the most immobile tank in the Feast. Besides Cover, the only thing it had better than the other two tanks was its 3s Stun, but that was also nerfed to 2 seconds, making PLD arguably just as bad as WAR.

Unfortunately, DRK can still do what PLD and WAR can (peel/defend/attack) without their drawbacks, because of one skill: The Blackest Night.
I'm kind of livid that they haven't nerfed it yet, but I guess with the people in charge, it's to be expected.

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Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

Um energy drain does give u hp back so yeah you could pretty much 1v1 anybody with it. Also adding the max-potion to the mix so don't know why people are acting surprised about smn small nerf.

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Your opinion has no value since you don't even play PVP. Max Potion, seriously?

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Originally Posted by randoom

Your opinion has no value since you don't even play PVP. Max Potion, seriously?

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You can use Max Potions in Frontlines. Didn't you know?

I haven't tried it in Feast yet, so no idea if it works there as well. There's also an item that restores TP in Frontlines.

I'm not sure that AST "buff" will actually help, at all. Oh yay, rng chance to have an extra heal.

SE why.

Edit.

Just saw they straight up removed draw?
S E W H Y

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Originally Posted by PotatoGirl

I'm not sure that AST "buff" will actually help, at all. Oh yay, rng chance to have an extra heal.

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That'll depend on how the CDs are and how exactly it works.

For the minor arcanum, you either get a 2250 potency attack or a 7500 potency heal (Much equivalency, such wow, very impress).

In PvE, Sleeve Draw gives you both, a Minor Arcanum AND a regular card, so I assume it's gonna be the same in PvP, which would mean you might be able to use either the Card and the Minor Arcanum, or two Minor Arcana in a row - that'll depend on the CD of minor arcanum.

To me, it looks like a pretty substantial buff, but it'll depend on the CD of Minor Arcanum and Sleeve Draw.

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The following PvP job actions have been removed: Warrior Inner Release

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RIP warriors so bad, I guess I'll be playing my DRK now

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You can use Max Potions in Frontlines. Didn't you know?

I haven't tried it in Feast yet, so no idea if it works there as well. There's also an item that restores TP in Frontlines.

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The developers recently said that when they balance PvP, they are doing it with The Feast (4v4) in mind. I'm guessing the poster you quoted was dismissive because Frontlines is not the competitive PvP mode, and thus doesn't matter when it comes to talking about the changes in 4.1. Potions can't be used in The Feast, no.

So are we all going to forget "THE FEAST(4 ON 4 - TRAINING MATCH) has been added to the game"

They heard us! Yaaaay!

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

So are we all going to forget "THE FEAST(4 ON 4 - TRAINING MATCH) has been added to the game"

They heard us! Yaaaay!

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Ye <3 love this one!

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

So are we all going to forget "THE FEAST(4 ON 4 - TRAINING MATCH) has been added to the game"

They heard us! Yaaaay!

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Ye <3 love this one!

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Originally Posted by PotatoGirl

I'm not sure that AST "buff" will actually help, at all. Oh yay, rng chance to have an extra heal.

SE why.

Edit.

Just saw they straight up removed draw?
S E W H Y

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Much more useful than a skill that was situational at vest and detrimental to your team at worst.

Also if you actually read the notes and used some common sense you'd know that Sleeve Draw is just an upgraded draw? Exact same thing except you also get a minor arcana on top of the regular card. And furthering on common sense and thinking skills you can see that the added Minor Arcana skill converts the specific cards into the specific arcana. Can't do that without regular cards can you? You have ast at 70 so surely you know how sleeve draw works in PvE x)

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Originally Posted by Shirolumi

The developers recently said that when they balance PvP, they are doing it with The Feast (4v4) in mind.

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Heh, I did read that and I'm still chuckling about it, because the implications of that are grave.

I mean, do you know what balance is? Imagine a pair of scales. The two scales should keep an even weight and the indicator should remain horizontal.

And so, if you weigh a mouse against an elephant, you'll find that the scales are very uneven, the mouse is going to sit considerably higher than the elephant, the indicator is skewed.
You can solve that issue easily by putting an elephant and a mouse on both sides of the scales, though. Suddenly, the scales seem a lot more even and you only have to make sure that any pair of elephants and mice you put against each other are roughly equally heavy, which means you only need to balance your elephants against other elephants and your mice against other mice. And then you add a Lion to one side and a dog to the other, realize they're unbalanced again and pull the same trick again to have a mouse, a lion, a dog and an elephant on both sides of the scales.

That is precisely what they are doing when balancing around 4vs4 Feast, because 4vs4 Feast has a forced role composition. It's a dreadfully defeatist statement, because you can balance "anything" without putting in any actual balancing effort by simply putting the same things on both sides of the scales. You don't even need to balance the jobs within the roles if you simply match every job only against the same job, if every summoner can only play against another summoner and every WHM only against another WHM, then it doesn't matter if a scholar is ten times as strong as WHM, they'll never play each other anyway, so the scholar won't have an advantage from that - until they meet in frontlines or other modes and completely rek the WHM. And the same applies to roles in general.
The deeper meaning of balance is the ability to substitute two things without changing the overall weight, which is apparent when you play around with a pair of scales. 100 gram chocolate weigh the same as 100 gram tomatoes, they are balanced and you can freely pick either if you need 100 gram for anything. If you cannot substitute two things, they aren't balanced - the chocolate and tomatoes may be balanced in terms of weight, but they aren't in terms of nutrients, so you cannot substitute them in that regard. A forced role composition admits that roles cannot be substituted and thus, it admits that there is no balance to be found. Balancing around that means that you don't and won't care about even glaring imbalances between the roles.
That in itself is a terrible statement. And that in turn makes any existing imbalance within the respective roles ten times worse, because it means that even though they only balance 3-4 jobs (the options within a role) against each other at a time and don't care about the rest, they still manage to create considerable imbalances with such a limited balancing scope.

I'm surprised people aren't more outraged about that, but I wager most people simply don't think about it. Or maybe the elephant is happy if he can jump off the scales and go into a room without people talking about him. Who knows? Either way, it is not a very confidence inspiring statement of theirs. But it does explain a lot about their overall balancing approach.


And as an addendum: In a game with group synergies (AoEs, buffs, CC etc), it is necessary to balance for a set group size, because they derive their value from the amount of directly or indirectly affected players and the total weight of a job thus depends on party size (See also: Trick attack value in 1-4-8-24 man groups - the dog is heavier the more people sit on the scales). You need to nerf jobs with such effects down from their base power level to be balanced in a group and the amount of nerf depends on the value of the effect which depends on the size of the group. In that regard, setting a group size to balance for is not just fine, but necessary. But they failed to establish the basis to nerf from.

4v4 training is great news because I need more training haha

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Originally Posted by Mirch

Both ranged lost their report (battlefield march?), to give party mp and tp, does this mean Muse additional skill will be a must?

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It always was a must for any healer.

I tried new astro and it feels lot stronger than what it was before. You can use two cards every 30 sec that is so nice.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I tried new astro and it feels lot stronger than what it was before. You can use two cards every 30 sec that is so nice.

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Double Crowns/Thorns too which is nice with the DoT/Regen effect.

One thing I really miss with this update is the absence of any updates to communication tools.

Just a simple "Ready to attack!" and "Not ready!" buttons would be very helpful in communication on when I have enough White/Black Mana for burst.

Notes on RDM changes -

Vercure and the changes to Monomachy are horrid - and this is coming from a compulsive optimist and avid defender of Red Mage. These changes were miserable to the class. The decreased recast on CaC and Displacement amounts to nothing as the skills themselves are not high impact and the cooldown on both were already low enough to be of no consequence.

Vercure lacks enough potency for its cost. If it were a free spell the 1500 potency would be validated as it would be a direct distraction form our other casting. Now that it costs MP it amounts to a resource drain with little piratical application.

Put bluntly, I would sacrifice both Vercure and Monomachy for Manification back, and keep the other adjustments, which were actually positive. But as it stands, Monomachi's changes were a net nerf and Vercure is going to be a liability in all but the absolute best hands, and even then it amounts to a highly situational tool that distracts from our role in the group, rather than redefining it.

Other adjustments were good with the boost to Mana and the added effects on Verholy and Verflare, though Verflare sees less use due to the lack of situations meriting heavy TP usage.

Suggestions:
1. Drop Vercure. We're not there to heal and it's not nearly powerful enough to merit the spot.

2. Swap Vercure for a Fletche that costs TP and it'll be balanced while having a demand for Verflare usage. Have Fletche also get a lower cooldown if it hits Monomachy and there may be some benefits to the change to Monomachy as well.

To stress: Pulling offensive power away from Red Mage was the exact opposite direction it needed to go.

Can you use a Dragon Sigh macro in PVP and if so what would work?

/micon "Dragon Sight"
/tpc
/ac "Dragon Sight" <t>
/tle

I'm trying this and it's just not working. Not sure if Macros are allowed in pvp?