I'm afraid about dungeons with the squad...

Hello people of Eorzea.

Here is the thing : as the title says, i'm a little afraid about this option we will have soon to do dungeons in total solo mode thanks to the squad.

I mean, it can be convenient, sure.
But is it not something that goes against what MMOs are supposed to be ?

I've always said to myself that this game does a great job in teaching MMO to its player base, by forcing them to make use of teamplay during the leveling (unlike...hum Wow...).
Now, it will basically be an option... and I'm afraid that, in the long term, it will damage the community.

What do you think of it ?
Will there be strong restrictions to this possibility ?
Do you think it's rather a good thing ?

you can already do some dungeons solo with undersize.... so i don't really see the difference?

I think it's a fairly consequent thing.
People always go on about how this is a Final Fantasy game and Final Fantasy games are predominantly solo games. It just seems fitting.

Snark aside, I'm not overly worried - Squadrons are unlocked fairly late and it takes a while to level them, so most people will only use them for alt jobs. And most of the ones that do will probably be less skilled players people would rather see out of DF anyway. Moreover, I don't think recent content is included, it's probably gonna lag behind an expansion. And I doubt they program the AI to deal with semi-complex mechanics either, in fact, I'd not be surprised if even the first boss in Sastasha (Hard) would break the healer AIs neck.

Worst thing I can see is queues for old content getting longer, truth be told.

Hum... That's a good point :)

But undersize is only for past extentions content.
So maybe it should be the same for squad dungeons. However, I heared we wil be able to do high level dungeons this way too...

I think that the latest LLP digest stated that this will not be for all dungeons, only for some, so I am guessing it will also be the same as undersizing which is for older content dungeons only. There is another thread similar to this, and in there one even made a comment that SE might even just try this for the first three low level dungeons.

My guess is that the squad level cap will rise to 60 and we won't be able to go into any dungeons with the squad over level 60. Nice for story, maybe a decent way to level up squads but probably not going to be much use for anything else. Certainly won't de-legitimize normal dungeon runs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Hum... That's a good point :)

But undersize is only for past extentions content.
So maybe it should be the same for squad dungeons. However, I heared we wil be able to do high level dungeons this way too...

---

Where did you hear this? Sounds made up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farkle

Where did you hear this? Sounds made up.

---

Oh ! I just made the research, and I found that it actually was a mistranslated piece of information.

In french,this was said:
"La limite de niveau des escouades augmentera également et ils pourront utiliser des mirages. Vous pourrez donc participer au vrai contenu de haut niveau avec les membres de votre escouade, bonne chance!"
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/346410

In english,this was said:
"The level cap for the squadron members is increased, and they will be able to glamour as well, so the true endgame, glamour, will be available for your squadron members now too. Good luck!"
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...est-(9-27-2017)

They only talked about endgame "glamour", but that's not what was said in french.
In french, they said : "you will be able to participate to true endgame content with your squadron."

My guess is that it will be level 50 inly

I highly doubt you will be able to bring squads to say an Expert Roulette and do the end dungeons.
As everyone would just go that route and not bother with randoms via df
Which also brings up the question if it will be just lower level dungeons, why bother?

I'm currently guessing that it will be lower level dungeons only, and that there will be special Squadron based rewards for them. Although probably only a few specific dungeons, rather than 'anything below lvl 50.' The heavy mechanics nature of FFXIV bosses would make generalized AI difficult. In addition to the rewards for and from your Squadron, I could possibly see some sort of glamour rewards similar to Wondrous Tails or the sacks from Palace of The Dead/Deep Dungeon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

They only talked about endgame "glamour", but that's not what was said in french.
In french, they said : "you will be able to participate to true endgame content with your squadron."

---

Looks like they both said the same thing to me.

They said that squadrons will have their own set of dungeons that you can do with them. If they were going to let you take them into any dungeon they wouldn't have made it a point to say "a certain set".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Hello people of Eorzea.

Here is the thing : as the title says, i'm a little afraid about this option we will have soon to do dungeons in total solo mode thanks to the squad.

I mean, it can be convenient, sure.
But is it not something that goes against what MMOs are supposed to be ?

I've always said to myself that this game does a great job in teaching MMO to its player base, by forcing them to make use of teamplay during the leveling (unlike...hum Wow...).
Now, it will basically be an option... and I'm afraid that, in the long term, it will damage the community.

What do you think of it ?
Will there be strong restrictions to this possibility ?
Do you think it's rather a good thing ?

---

I think the squad will do their job probably better than most of the df players and its completly fine if you don't have to do everything with others in a mmo.

Hoping you can use squads in MSQ dungeons, specifically CM/Prae. Leafs shouldn't be subjected to SPEEDRUNS ONRY!!!! drama.

i believe the 5 dungeons you could do were: Halatali, Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak, Brayflox's Longstop, Stone Vigil, and Wanderer's Palace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Snip Snip

---

You can only enter 5 dungeons with them. Halatali, Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak, Brayflox's Longstop, Stone Vigil, and Wanderer's Palace. (The dungeons are restricted so that the AI isn't chocobo levels of dumb, like at the start of halatali, the healer actually protects!)

It's really made as a way to level an alt job as say like a DPS instead of waiting on 30min+ queues.

You have to pay the squad every time you do this as well, so it's not free.

You can unlock stuff like 3 emotes which are Squats, Sit ups and Push up.

The glamor part about the live letter was the fact that after your squad is level 51+ you can glamor their gear. such the 'true endgame' (which is a long running joke that glamor is the endgame)

but what if your squadron votekicks you? LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XiXiQ

but what if your squadron votekicks you? LOL

---

Well you are the one that pays their wages, pretty sure they don't want to piss off their commanding officer. XD

For newer players this may work out perhaps?
As for myself and others who have all jobs at 60 or 70 well i guess it will be fun to try out once or twice i guess? lol
Oh and someone had made a video, apparently the healer ai is pretty good and better then most healers in game. haha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Hello people of Eorzea.

Here is the thing : as the title says, i'm a little afraid about this option we will have soon to do dungeons in total solo mode thanks to the squad.

---

I wish we could do more dungeons with the squad , no more dps30 min ques would be so amazing , speak for yourself I wish we could do even more content with our squads, like old bird, farms, old pony farms etc. I was kinda sad we can only do five dungeons with them if anything we needed the option to do more with them not less

I'd like to see the old end game dungeons be used with the squadron because right now I'm not waiting in those que times. Probably to complex for the ai to do those dungeons but it would be nice to finally complete those quests

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XiXiQ

but what if your squadron votekicks you? LOL

---

Well it would be extremly funny if you just take a carry or you are way undergeared. :D

They should make it like hall of novice, with chat bubbles yelling at us. :)

The catch is, the AI isn't too clever about mechanics.

You have to actively tell them to go after adds, they won't pull the poison dragon out of the toxic pools, they won't move out of the electrified water, or the fiery ground, and it can be hit or miss if the tank will point the adds in the right direction.

Even their increased damage resistance towards these mechanics won't save them.

Ekimmak, the AI is resilient or outright immune to a lot of boss mechanics. I've found it best to not micro manage them at all during boss fights - but you do want to be micro managing on normal mobs. In cases such as burning ground where they are not immune to the condition you just need to take ranged dps. The healer is more than capable of keeping the tank up.

I actually have the opposite problem though. I am extremely nervous about group play (why I play MMOs, Don't ask me!)
Is there a way to bypass dungeons while leveling.. I do not like to do dungeons or any group play during my first leveling toon.
I have played WoW for 5 years and was hoping for some solo MMO time before I dive back into raiding. any help? Thank you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ponpondon

I actually have the opposite problem though. I am extremely nervous about group play (why I play MMOs, Don't ask me!)
Is there a way to bypass dungeons while leveling.. I do not like to do dungeons or any group play during my first leveling toon.
I have played WoW for 5 years and was hoping for some solo MMO time before I dive back into raiding. any help? Thank you!

---

Of course you can level other ways (solo) - FATEs, levequests, beastmen daily quests (after about level 43ish I think), and also completing objectives in the Challenge Log all give you EXP through soloing. After level 50 to 60 also unlock Clan Centurio Hunts in Ishgard as the daily hunts for HW areas also reward EXP as well. So yes you most definitely can level solo in this game, although it won't be as quick as dungeon running or PotD, it is still reasonably easy to do so.

As Enkidoh points out, there are a lot of ways to get exp that dont involve dungeons or other people at all. With that said though, the storyline does require you to do instanced duties(dungeons, trials) every so often. So it might be a good idea to find a few friends you are comfortable going into places with to make those experiences more enjoyable. Something like 90% of the story is solo play, but there isnt a great workaround for the parts that arent.

Thanks for the info guys :) Looks like I'll have to get my boyfriend to play through the dungeons until I get more comfortable with it. I really like the story and don't want to give that up hah I think this is a silly flaw in the game though..

You will be fine in normal dungeons. The only MSQ group dungeon that might stress you is Normal Royal Menagerie.

That said, you will run into friendly players as well as very serious players who tell you what you do good or bad.

Try and remember it is only words and whether true or not you can improve for yourself if you want to. Look up youtube videos for standard job rotations.

Before each new dungeon watch a vid, if you want to be as prepared as possible.

Remember that every challenge you face usually has a tell sign in the cast bar. If you watch that you will know what is coming. If you watched the vids you will know how to deal with it. Then it only becomes a question of what are you going to do about it.

Sadly knowledge isn't the issue >___< I played WoW for 5 years, pretty decent gamer... just a social issue that's crept up during the last couple years. I'll work around it though :) thanks for taking the time to reply!

Unless you find a way to reduce queue times for the DPS classes, then this is the next best thing. Some people don't want to have to wait 30 minutes for a dungeon. It can be frustrating to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

But is it not something that goes against what MMOs are supposed to be ?

---

This is probably one of the most misunderstood concepts about the genre. No, it is not something that goes against what MMOs are supposed to be. Specifically, it does not demean what an MMORPG is supposed to mean.

Since the emergence of the genre to modern forms (e.g. EQ, WoW, XI, etc), the concept wasn't necessarily a forced idea of grouping to do content, but that you could and often should. That the game allowed you to find your own way of playing. It was only a recent philosophy that devs have gained to dictate how and when players would be able to play how they want. This is particularly true when you look at how "important" balance is to a game these days.

I'm not saying that content should not be balanced around a necessity for parties, but rather that content was not always strictly dictated as such. The point of MMOs is the interaction between players, be it socially and/or mechanically in the gameplay, NOT any forced form of playing.

If I want to grind out my levels in WoW without grouping in dungeons, I can. If I want to level without groups in original XI (choosing specific jobs to kill BST pets and/or being powerleveled), I can. They both isolate me from others. Neither option in those games are efficient, but they are an option that was created for players to utilize, intentionally or not.

TL;DR - No, MMORPGs are about community interactions and freedom to be or act as you want within reason. It does not have anything to do with forcing you to play with others, even if some game may choose to do it that way. Nothing on that matter of forced methods is set in stone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Of course you can level other ways (solo) - FATEs, levequests, beastmen daily quests (after about level 43ish I think), and also completing objectives in the Challenge Log all give you EXP through soloing. After level 50 to 60 also unlock Clan Centurio Hunts in Ishgard as the daily hunts for HW areas also reward EXP as well. So yes you most definitely can level solo in this game, although it won't be as quick as dungeon running or PotD, it is still reasonably easy to do so.

---

What I think you're really overlooking here is, if player is avoiding instanced group content, most of those options are out of reach. For most content, game requires MSQ progress, and MSQ requires grouping up once in a while.

I love the command missions... Only wish they'd open up more dungeons.... Its great for leveling alt jobs, its great for dps who wont have to sit through 30+ min queue times, and its great if you want to learn or get used to a dungeon in your own pacing(eg the poster who is afraid of doing group content)... Heck, if they were afraid that nobody would do normal dungeons, they could just add incentives to play.. They could exclude squad dungeons from roulettes(then obviously players would do roulettes for their tomes), and they could add higher itemlvl drops from doing dungeons with players over your squadron(kinda like lfr from wow, where you would have lfr which has the lowest item lvl, then you had normal, heroic, mythic ect).. So bacially the dungeons would be the same, the items dropped could be the same, only the ilvl would be different depending on which mode you were doing...

On a side note, I find doing group dungeons in ffxiv quite enjoyable.... If you are new, and say you are new at the beginning, I have never experienced anyone being rude in 4 man dungeons(raids, especially from previous tiers can be another story)... And I mostly do dungeons with random, as a tank.....I can understand the anxiety from doing group content in wow(although I dont think its as bad as people make it out to be) as Ive been playing wow on and off for the duration of its existence... Also as a tank, and also mostly with randoms... And ffxiv is a much for relaxed and slow paced experience(imo)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maero

Which also brings up the question if it will be just lower level dungeons, why bother?

---

The emotes you get from the 10 squadron mission complete achievement is sooooooo worth it.
Other than that I don't see anything more, but will still level my miqote squad to the max lvl.

Yep i got the emotes last week and have not went back in, haha
I should however as one of my squads has the bonus thing that i get MGP, has worked pretty good so far :)