Samurai rotation Hagakure or midare

Hello, I'm a PS4 player and i don't have parser for test that !

My question is simple, i use 3 sen opener, and on the rotation, when Hagakure is up, is much to use it and spam Shinten or use all of time Midare ?

Because on os4 dummy when i use always midare I have more dps but the fight is quickly ^^! And i see on Reddit is must to use hagakure when shinten always is up !

Quick math:
Shinten is 300 potency for 25 Kenki weavable.
-> 12 Potency per Kenki
Midare is 720 potency on the GCD for 3 Sen. 240 potency per Sen.
Hagakure -> 1 Sen = 20 Kenki = 240 potency per Sen if used on Shinten (Potency value for Kenki differs between skills).

-> Hagakure + Shinten is better, because you can weave it between GCDs, whereas Midare takes up a GCD slot. That's my take on it.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Quick math:
Shinten is 300 potency for 25 Kenki weavable.
-> 12 Potency per Kenki
Midare is 720 potency on the GCD for 3 Sen. 240 potency per Sen.
Hagakure -> 1 Sen = 20 Kenki = 240 potency per Sen if used on Shinten (Potency value for Kenki differs between skills).

-> Hagakure + Shinten is better, because you can weave it between GCDs, whereas Midare takes up a GCD slot. That's my take on it.

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There is even more of a difference, as Midare is "only" 720potency on the GCD where you have to account the potential loss of an auto attack plus the regular median of GCD you would use instead. Midare is thus, far from beeing so good in damage, and Hakagure is then a big increase in damage, even more if you use it during group buffs.

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Originally Posted by MauvaisOeil

There is even more of a difference, as Midare is "only" 720potency on the GCD where you have to account the potential loss of an auto attack plus the regular median of GCD you would use instead. Midare is thus, far from beeing so good in damage, and Hakagure is then a big increase in damage, even more if you use it during group buffs.

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I thought Midare with some Kenki ready is a dps gain if you "squeeze the burst" into group buffs, outside of group buffs Hagakure is always a DPS gain. Correct me if I'm misguided please. :)

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

I thought Midare with some Kenki ready is a dps gain if you "squeeze the burst" into group buffs, outside of group buffs Hagakure is always a DPS gain. Correct me if I'm misguided please. :)

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I am no specialist of Sam, but I guess it's more interesting to use standard combo + 4 or 5 Shinten during Trick attack window, than a Midare with Kaiten.

However, It is probably better to use everything together (Meikyo shisui, Hakagure, Midare + kaiten and spam Hakagure at the same time but I don't know how it can be practically done.

Simply said : One big hit is not allways better than many more little hits. In the end, sen into kenki is allways superior to Sen finisher, that's for sure.

I tend to build up my kenki as high as possible and drop shinten until I drop to around 25 giving me enough for kaiten+ midare still... but it's really dependent on the fight...

As far as pure potency goes I seem to remember that Hagakure is always a DPS gain no matter if you use it at 1, 2 or 3 sens, as long as you don't generate more than your 100 limit by using it.

As far as fun factor goes, nothing beats a gigantic Midare, so I and many others have chosen the way of the big number. Midare all the way !

EDIT : To provide a bit of background, the difference between Midare and Hagakure isn't that big, especially on small parses. When I was still on my "big deeps kekekeke" phase at SB release, I spent quite a lot of time on the Stone Sky Sea dummies, going with and without Hagakure. The results were pretty uninteresting, with basically no difference in damage on a 3mn parse beyond the usual RNG on crits and stuff. So I'd say just do what feels better really. Would you rather skewer your opponent, or destroy them in two mighty destructive swings that would probably be enough to wake Titan up all the way from Doma? I know which one I choose :o

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

I thought Midare with some Kenki ready is a dps gain if you "squeeze the burst" into group buffs, outside of group buffs Hagakure is always a DPS gain. Correct me if I'm misguided please. :)

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Far as I'm aware, you are correct. If party buffs are active and you won't be able to spam Shinten but can get a Midare off, the latter will be a DPS gain.

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Originally Posted by ItaruKarin

As far as pure potency goes I seem to remember that Hagakure is always a DPS gain no matter if you use it at 1, 2 or 3 sens, as long as you don't generate more than your 100 limit by using it.

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Apparently, it isn't. You always want to build up to 3 Sens before using Hagakure unless you'll cap Kenki.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Apparently, it isn't. You always want to build up to 3 Sens before using Hagakure unless you'll cap Kenki.

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Oh? Would you happen to have a link to the calculation? That rekindled my optimization flame, need to teeeeeest §§

Iirc, there is like a priority list for how the 3 sens / Kenki are used. If Hagakure is up, you use the 3 sens on that (I often see 3 Sens get converted into kenki to be use on Guren for openers), if it is not than you use it on Midare + Kaiten. Also IMO its only worth converting at 1 or 2 sens if Higanbana is about to run out and you need Kenki for a Kaiten + Higanbana set up.

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Originally Posted by ItaruKarin

Oh? Would you happen to have a link to the calculation? That rekindled my optimization flame, need to teeeeeest §§

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I don't. It was discussed in The Balance discord a bit ago. Didn't know myself, but there were some pretty high parsing Samurai giving that advice. If you aren't there already, I can grab an invite. :)

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I don't. It was discussed in The Balance discord a bit ago. Didn't know myself, but there were some pretty high parsing Samurai giving that advice. If you aren't there already, I can grab an invite. :)

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Thanks, i went there to have a looksie :D