WHM/ Plenary Indulgence?

Hello everyone!
Please excuse me, if there has been a similar thread already, but I kinda wanted to get this off of my chest... ( not that I know where I'm going with this )

First of all.. Before stormblood hit, I was worried about the future of the white mage. It's been my main for three years, so of course I didn't know what to expect after seeing all those 'WHM is dead' memes.

In hindsight...I must say, whm is the most powerful it's ever been. As rather experienced player, I can now easily heal up the entire party in a matter of 2 seconds, dps like crazy and not run out of mp.
The thing that bothers me is, that most white mages I've seen in duty finder are flat out just lazy or don't know it any better.

Exhibit A.) Plenary Indulgence

In my opinion, most underrated whm skill but also an ungodly powerful one.
I mostly never see other whitemages use it. The confession stacks just keep piling up, but go unused. ( hey, it's a no-mp, instant cast that's almost as powerful as Cure III on a confession stack of 3 )
Now..after my levelling process, I did not know how to properly use it and it seemed pretty useless to me.. until I started running Susano. The AOE heals were strong in this one, so I tried finding other ways to utilise all of my skills, when it dawned on me.
After a couple AOE heals, I realised that a mere Cure III + plenary indulgence can heal a nearly dead party up to full HP in an instant. ( instant meaning.. precasting/swiftcast)
Whilst I heal up the entire party in an instant, other healers will start casting a spell only after everyone is already topped off. ( so basically, wasting their mp )
Now, don't get me wrong, this isn't an me being an arrogant '' I can do everything better than you anyway and y'all suck'' post.
I am just genuinely wondering why the majority of whitemages don't utilise the extend of their skills as they should, or is this just a narrow-minded opinion of myself?

Anyway, I'd like to hear your opinions on this, especially if you are a fellow white mage yourself ^-^/ <3

It's arguably not very useful in any content below EX-Primals, where 1 or 2 aoe heals topped up entire party and thus the more casual healers developed the habit of not using it entirely.

But I'm sure no White Mage will say it's useless in Savage fights, against things such as Charybdis + multi Roar, Gravitational Wave + Unstable Gravity, Dimensional Wave wombo-combo, and, of course, Almagest, and so on.

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Originally Posted by NephilimCanis

( hey, it's a no-mp, instant cast that has a higher potency than Cure III on a confession stack of 3 )

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Might want to fix that part. At 3 stacks it is 450 potency, Cure III is 550.

I don't have much more to add to this, I agree with Mosaicex that it's not really needed in casual content. I'm assuming it's just one of those abilities that healers sit on waiting for a dire situation. Whereas in reality it just boosts your AoE potency, and is worth using whenever considering the CD is only 60s. And yes, it's definitely not underused in Savage content.

Its always going to be a problem with all the simplistic leveling content where healers can get away with minimal skill usage and therefore develop poor habits. Plenary Indulgence is also the very last skill a WHM learns and incredibly niche as well so you have 70 levels of doing just fine without it and suddenly you have to force yourself to remember it even exist.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

Might want to fix that part. At 3 stacks it is 450 potency, Cure III is 550.

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oops... Since I don't ever remember any specifics about skill, I was using the description from another page..it was stated there that it was stronger than Cure III... thanks!

Ah, I can't really say anything to the usage in savage, since I haven't been there yet..
It's definitely not really worth using it in basic content, such as roulettes.

I've only run trials ( farmed Susano and Susano to death xD ) and it's just irritating when the party wipes because there hasn't been sufficient healing...
( or sometimes, letting me basically solo heal everything xD )
I'll look more into savage when I've got time and might change my opinion :P
thanks for the replies so far!

Extremely useful ability on this Savage tier content, even at one stack.

Not every ability should be useful for any kind of content.

Question for the WHMs in this thread. How does this ability function with other WHM do Confessions stacks get muddled with 2 WHM in a group?

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

It's arguably not very useful in any content below EX-Primals, where 1 or 2 aoe heals topped up entire party and thus the more casual healers developed the habit of not using it entirely.

But I'm sure no White Mage will say it's useless in Savage fights, against things such as Charybdis + multi Roar, Gravitational Wave + Unstable Gravity, Dimensional Wave wombo-combo, and, of course, Almagest, and so on.

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Absolutely yes.

If I had a gripe, it's that 10s is just short enough that sometimes it falls off right before a follow up raid hit. Still, I get a lot of mileage out of it.

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Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

Question for the WHMs in this thread. How does this ability function with other WHM do Confessions stacks get muddled with 2 WHM in a group?

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Ideally the aoe healing will hit everyone*. Which means you can stay targeting one of the tanks, and the green numbers tell you which buff is yours. And you can even just look at your own buff bar really... It was a lot more impractical back when it was single target as you would have to target and check each person to tell.

*...might be a bigger problem when the alliance raids hit, since there people like standing far, far away...

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Ideally the aoe healing will hit everyone*. Which means you can stay targeting one of the tanks, and the green numbers tell you which buff is yours. And you can even just look at your own buff bar really... It was a lot more impractical back when it was single target as you would have to target and check each person to tell.

*...might be a bigger problem when the alliance raids hit, since there people like standing far, far away...

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Oh SHoot. I was hoping WHM gained something that makes them not function well with their own class. Like SCH and Shields, and AST and card buffs. Guess hoping that Confessions stacks from other WHM overwrote your own was hoping for too much.

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Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

Question for the WHMs in this thread. How does this ability function with other WHM do Confessions stacks get muddled with 2 WHM in a group?

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Each WHM gets an individual buff listing the number of confessions they've applied. In a double WHM comp this means it's possible to see two confession buffs which can lead to confusion.

I find the easiest way to mitigate this confusion is to not look at the confession stacks and instead just keep an eye on your Plenary Indulgence cooldown instead. Since you're guaranteed application it's pretty easy to count how many stacks you'll have after you AoE heal a few times. That way you can just ignore the buff icon itself and just focus on using it when you see the skill itself is off CD. If someone doesn't get an application because they're too far away then chances are they'll also be out of range of your PI as well and it's kinda their loss if the WHM is positioned properly for maximum effective range.

I use plenary in the normal mode 8mans as well, not that you really need it. Honestly though my biggest gripe is when the blm (it's always a blm) has decided to stand Right Over There when everyone else is on susano's butt, so I have to use medica instead of cure3.

I just recently swapped roles with my static's healer so I'm healing 2s as well as 1s, honestly my biggest problem is trying not to plenary just before he detonates his earthly star, then we both cry because he's used to healing with a sch.

The main use I find for PI outside of Savage is as a chaser for Medica II on the bosses with repeating AOEs, not so much for the AOE itself but as a free delayed OGCD 3K heal on the tank, it's not a huge amount by any stretch, but it all adds up in avoiding ever needing to cast a single target heal on the tank.

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Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

Oh SHoot. I was hoping WHM gained something that makes them not function well with their own class. Like SCH and Shields, and AST and card buffs. Guess hoping that Confessions stacks from other WHM overwrote your own was hoping for too much.

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...why the arbitrary WHM hate? It's barely holding on to being acceptable anyways, what with other healers and their DPS buffs.

If you really wanted a hate fueled WHM nerf, you'd want to take a tip from pvp: make regen/medica 2 not stack.

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Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

Oh SHoot. I was hoping WHM gained something that makes them not function well with their own class. Like SCH and Shields, and AST and card buffs. Guess hoping that Confessions stacks from other WHM overwrote your own was hoping for too much.

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Well remember Whm has no inherent party utility or mitigation. If there were the case, it means that Regens and medica 2 ticks wouldn't stack and that would screw a lot of groups that would get double whm on trial roulette. So in order to lessen the detriment, they're allowed to so do, Case if they didn't stop it with regen and medica 2 ticks, they're not stopping that with anything else.

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Originally Posted by Mirateski

Honestly though my biggest gripe is when the blm (it's always a blm) has decided to stand Right Over There when everyone else is on susano's butt, so I have to use medica instead of cure3.
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You're far kinder than me as I'll just Cure 3 and by the 2nd hit they realize they aren't getting healed and run to me XD.

On topic, I still hate the skill. Even in savage I don't feel that the skill is all that good and has never particularly been life saving or even very useful in my experience. You say underrated, I say trash.

Of course it definitely is a powerful skill especially in savage and ex battles. The 1 thing I would currently change about the skill:

1.) make confessions last 15 secs at the least. Many times during especially 3.0s I've had confessions run out 1 second before my next medica goes out. Even if you time it *perfectly* the lag on some characters may make it miss them in time. 15 sec gives you just a little more leeway and strategy in planning your heals thro various mechanics. (I think others have been saying this too) and I think 15 secs is pretty fair not too overpowered and just makes timing heals between mechniacs a little less frustrating.

So yea 15 sec, I would be happy as a whm main. I mean i love the class and that's not changing just a little quality of life sorta thing. And well hey I would love 30 seconds lol but unlikely to happen so 15 is good.

On a lesser note it would be nice for some sort of single target mechanic for dungeons but it's not that big of a deal I don't think.

Plenary Indulgence is great. It's free, it's instant, it's a bonus and cost nothing more.

It's very good when you have to move but heal at the same time.
It's very good when you need to heal everyone at full before a big aoe mechanic that hurts.
It's very good when you had to heal to much that you have 3 stack, which mean one more big heal at 450 potency within the next 10 secondes.

So, in other words, you can see and use it differently depending the content.

In any case, it's great WHM have this !

Its a raid skill. If you are not raiding you wont see it.

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Originally Posted by Clouse_Cleyra

Its a raid skill. If you are not raiding you wont see it.

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...I do feel like this conversation was pretty similar to Asylum just after Heavensward hit. I think, in general, if you're doing content where you only need 1, 2, 3... a number of the more advanced and/or nuanced skills will seem superfluous.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

...I do feel like this conversation was pretty similar to Asylum just after Heavensward hit. I think, in general, if you're doing content where you only need 1, 2, 3... a number of the more advanced and/or nuanced skills will seem superfluous.

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I remember there being a discussion that Asylum wasn't worth the oGCD use because "it didn't do enough", there were "better things to oGCD with", and "tanks never stay in Asylum" at one point early in the Heavensward expansion.

I feel the game at a basic level is really straight forward that quite a few players don't really appreciate the thought process necessary to optimize at the highest of levels.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I feel the game at a basic level is really straight forward that quite a few players don't really appreciate the thought process necessary to optimize at the highest of levels.

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This is basically every game.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

...I do feel like this conversation was pretty similar to Asylum just after Heavensward hit. I think, in general, if you're doing content where you only need 1, 2, 3... a number of the more advanced and/or nuanced skills will seem superfluous.

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Except that PI is effectively an inferior, more difficult to use version of Assize. There's times when it can be useful, sure, but that doesn't make it a good skill.

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Originally Posted by Clouse_Cleyra

Its a raid skill. If you are not raiding you wont see it.

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Let's correct this.

It's a STATIC raid skill because if you are in a PF group, 9/10 times your co-healer will screw you before you can use it, even with Discord.

First, let's start off with it not even being close to Cure III.

Plenary Indulgence goes from a Potency of 150 -> 300 -> 450.

Cure III is a 550 Potency.
Cure I is a 450 Potency.

(Two stacks are 66% of a Cure I, one stack is 33% of a Cure I.)

So, I have to use three aoe heals for it to even be worth my time pressing the button. Which, of course, they'd be healed from.

Outside of Savage PROGRESSION there's no need to ever use it.

It's hardly more powerful than the Medica I aoe heal with a 300 Potency and no need to cast three aoes beforehand.

It's not used because it's not dependable / reliable.

The Stack acquisition is random.

The Stack duration is short.

So when you really need it, it might not be up at all or the stacks aren't up enough to justify using it vs Cure 3.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Except that PI is effectively an inferior, more difficult to use version of Assize. There's times when it can be useful, sure, but that doesn't make it a good skill.

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On this, I must respectfully disagree.

The only thing I wish about PI is that the stacks lasted more than 10s... sometimes it just barely falls off before that follow up AoE. But the heal itself is grand.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The Stack acquisition is random.

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The RNG is gone. It is dependable and reliable. Though I do agree the timer is short.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I remember there being a discussion that Asylum wasn't worth the oGCD use because "it didn't do enough", there were "better things to oGCD with", and "tanks never stay in Asylum" at one point early in the Heavensward expansion.

I feel the game at a basic level is really straight forward that quite a few players don't really appreciate the thought process necessary to optimize at the highest of levels.

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Deja vu, isn't it? We got another oGCD AoE heal... with the potential to approach cure 3 in potency, but even if it doesn't, it's still an instant oGCD... and people are, well, you've read the comments.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

On this, I must respectfully disagree.

The only thing I wish about PI is that the stacks lasted more than 10s... sometimes it just barely falls off before that follow up AoE. But the heal itself is grand.

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Except that it takes doing two other heals to make it heal the same amount as Assize, doesn't work at all without setup (unlike Assize), has the same/longer (with lillies) cooldown than Assize, and doesn't do anything else that Assize does.

Assize is awesome all the time. PI is good in certain edge high end cases and totally useless in a lot of other cases. These highly niche skills don't fit my definition of "good", although they're nice to have when you're in their niche. A stack timer extension would help a ton by increasing the cases where the stacks stay up long enough to be used. It's definitely too fast right now, and that contributes a lot to it having all these cases where it's not particularly useful.

I honestly think that PI with a substantially longer confession duration would be too powerful. Whilst it's kind of meh in casual gameplay, it's a great ability in Savage pretty much anytime the AoEs start coming in. It's massive reach is also something that's frequently overlooked.

15 seconds might work ok, but 20 or 30 seconds runs the risk of us being able to keep stacks rolling indefinitely in more challenging content which will just break it.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I honestly think that PI with a substantially longer confession duration would be too powerful. Whilst it's kind of meh in casual gameplay, it's a great ability in Savage pretty much anytime the AoEs start coming in. It's massive reach is also something that's frequently overlooked.

15 seconds might work ok, but 20 or 30 seconds runs the risk of us being able to keep stacks rolling indefinitely in more challenging content which will just break it.

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15 would be a pretty nice QoL improvement. I'd be cool with them going to that and seeing how it goes, rather than overshooting.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I honestly think that PI with a substantially longer confession duration would be too powerful. Whilst it's kind of meh in casual gameplay, it's a great ability in Savage pretty much anytime the AoEs start coming in. It's massive reach is also something that's frequently overlooked.

15 seconds might work ok, but 20 or 30 seconds runs the risk of us being able to keep stacks rolling indefinitely in more challenging content which will just break it.

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I wonder if they could have the PI buff decay. So you get two stacks, the timer runs out, but instead of the buff dropping it just reduces the stack counter by 1 and resets the timer. I dunno if they could do that because I imagine if they could they would've done it with Greased Lightning but it's a thought.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I wonder if they could have the PI buff decay. So you get two stacks, the timer runs out, but instead of the buff dropping it just reduces the stack counter by 1 and resets the timer. I dunno if they could do that because I imagine if they could they would've done it with Greased Lightning but it's a thought.

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They do a similar thing with Embolden where it starts at 5 stacks and drops to 0 over time.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I wonder if they could have the PI buff decay. So you get two stacks, the timer runs out, but instead of the buff dropping it just reduces the stack counter by 1 and resets the timer. I dunno if they could do that because I imagine if they could they would've done it with Greased Lightning but it's a thought.

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I like it!

And yes, as Metsonm said that's exactly how Embolden works. Maybe they couldn't do it back in 2.0, but they can now.

I would rather have Plenary Indulgence be given a set potency, say about 250 maybe, and do away with the confession stack business altogether. If it reset the timer for Medica II and Regen it would be vastly more beneficial at every level of content from 4 man dungeons to trials and Savage content etc. It would save the cast time of both Medica II and Regen along with MP cost and would make more sense to follow directly behind Medica to top off the party and continue the HoTs.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

The RNG is gone. It is dependable and reliable. Though I do agree the timer is short.

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The only time PI hits a stack on Medica 2 is the initial hit, not any of the ticks. Again, this is counter productive to the short timer on it. PI is an aoe heal, meaning you need to be in aoe situations for it to be useful. However, it's not stronger than cure 3, so you're simply better off using Cure 3 in stack mechanics.

Now if it gained stacks on Med 2 ticks that would be a different story.