Let's Talk About... Red Mage

Songs in the key of Red:

So let me preface this with a couple of points:
1. I'm new-ish to ffxiv and have just got finished leveling all the casters.
2. I'm an embittered old heroic WoW Heroic/Mythic raider - healer for the last 6 years, DPS before that since too long ago. I only mention this to give a background that I have some - if limited to that game - experience (as a Shadow/Holy/Disc (when absolutely necessary) priest for reference.)

There is a TLDR at the end...


Now, I'm very happy in my new home – by far I like the pace-shift and generally everything going on as it is so far. I leveled my first job as a WHM as I'm a healer at heart, always will be, and I love the fact that I can dps (I play a *very* aggressive WHM). So I set about leveling the casters – I wanted to love SMN and BLM and I do - to a point; the clumsiness of the SMN rotation and the sheer nonsense of the BLM I kind of felt for a bit whilst leveling, but I didn't realize how borked they both were until playing RDM. Without doubt the person that made the RDM class was a new guy to the fold - it is crazy how well it plays, flows, works as a DPS spec in comparison to the other two ranged caster dps.

Reading the forums and seeing the posts about lack of healers; I can honestly see why: RDM is the the only dps caster I can see working as a complete spec - it flows in battle where the other two literally don't. I'm not going to ditch WHM as my main – healing is my thing and I love it in this game - but playing RDM has made me realise how clunky the other casters are.

Now I am no way an authority on anything - and therefore it might just be me - but RDM is one of the most complete and satisfying DPS casters I have ever played in any game.

TLDR: RDM makes the other casters look broken.

Black Mage is the most well oiled DPS class at the moment, in this humble black mage's opinion.

Blm is not clunky it is just a very different playstyle then that of Red.
Once you get blm down properly it becomes non-issue, smn i have not played since mid Heavansward so cannot comment

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Originally Posted by Maero

Blm is not clunky it is just a very different playstyle then that of Red.
Once you get blm down properly it becomes non-issue, smn i have not played since mid Heavansward so cannot comment

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You know, what I think it is, is the timers on BLM feeling that they are actively working against you. Now it's obviously just a personal feeling but I feel that in this game where movement is a huge part of it that having a static resource like RDM is better in the flow of combat.
I suppose you could say the risk/reward of BLM is part of the charm, and I definitely see it and you're right: with practice it may feel more fluid.
I just feel that RDM and BLM from a design perspective could basically exist in completely different games. That said, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing and offers different options for play style and personal challenge.

Well there is also the fact that one does not feel as rewarded with blm, sure bringing higher dps feels great but i often felt like groups did not recognize that.
That was part of the reasoning i have switched to Red as my main for a bit. The amount of times i have saved groups from wipes and such.. to me i feel more useful now is all.
Still love my blm though and had mained it for 3 years

all three playstyles are completely different... rdm might feel more fluent because they are the most flexible and most forgiven caster of all 3. blm and smn both can be played fluently if the player has some more in-depth experience with cls and content as well - but both need more effort to get used to thats true. after all some love rdm for their cls design some think they are really boring to play after a while cause you really don't do anything but white/black and repeat, no dot & no buff to keep up, no positionals, nothin'... – never the less im glad you can enjoy it and I hope this feeling stays a bit... ^^

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170911/f6irzm3b.png

I leveled Rdm second after my Blm, which has been my main since beta, and I'm pretty disappointed with Rdm. Sure, it was fun at first, but I got bored by its very simple rotation, which doesn't even get spiced up at 70, very quickly. From the second you unlock the class all the way up to max lvl you're just doing the same things. I feel like there's some complexity missing, which is incredibly sad, like there were chances missed.
Just a personal opinion and I'm glad you found that you like it and hope you'll keep enjoying the game.

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

Just a personal opinion and I'm glad you found that you like it and hope you'll keep enjoying the game.

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i second this - smn since arr and it was really the first time that I dropped it and gave rdm a chance after o1s i returned to smn - cause I felt like the cls was incomplete somehow... can't say what exactly but for me its not "finished"... something is missing for me. – sad thing bout that everybody believe I would hate rdms... - I really don't but I indeed think they are boring .___.

Personally, I'm glad they made RDM a "simple caster". For the longest time, I avoided magical DPS because I hate having to upkeep. It's one of the reasons I mained WHM since it is focused on pure healing and only upkeep you do is really just regen.

Blackmage and summoner has so much micromanage, it just gets frustrating to me. Sure, I can get "into it", but there are some people like me that wants to play a class that's easy to get into and not worry about stacks or positioning. People can say, "No complexity, no reward" and sneer down at people like me as "lazy" for not wanting to learn a more complex class.

For me, I rather keep it simple. I cast this and I get the results like old style RPG magic casting and I was disappointed there was no magical DPS that felt closer to older RPG games. Then came RDM. Cast - > insta results, no need to worry about DoTs or positional... I fell in love with it. Sure it is the lowest DPS, sure the insta raise will lose out when things gets "competitive" and people die less to get faster clear times, but I am quite happy with the simplicity.

Sometimes it's good to have a class with such simple mechanics for people like me and award those who want to play harder mechanics with better rewards (i.e. higher DPS), but I disliked it when all of them were such micromanagy.

At first when I played RDM I did thought that it was 1 of the best magic DPS in the game. Until later down the line, playing savage and whatnot. Testing against SMN, I don't see it as a good job to have be on par in DPS w/ BLM and SMN. It was lacking the upkeep in maintaining their DPS in the long run. Their MP build, they are screwed if they use lucid and ko'd after. That what bothers me overtime playing RDM.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

At first when I played RDM I did thought that it was 1 of the best magic DPS in the game. Until later down the line, playing savage and whatnot. Testing against SMN, I don't see it as a good job to have be on par in DPS w/ BLM and SMN. It was lacking the upkeep in maintaining their DPS in the long run. Their MP build, they are screwed if they use lucid and ko'd after. That what bothers me overtime playing RDM.

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My name is Rawrz, but my raid group calls me "Raise Betch." I raise when I have to and try to outdps my party members. :P

Im very happy with RDMs supportive position and their dps potential. Im usually first or second in DPS in raid/pugs.

i had hoped rdm would have been a stance dance job my self its always been a easy to play hard to master job

It's very obvious that either a new developer made RDM and SAM, of they simply chaired more for them.

All the jobs in ARR are littered with hindrances to their jobs, drawbacks, clunky mechanics etc.
SAM and RDM both have no clunky mechanic or resources to stare at. And when a boss becomes untargetable, their DPS doesn't plummet because all of their buffs dropped off.
There's no drawbacks on their buffs like Monk's RoF or DRGs B4B. Really it's just overall better jobs, and I hope somewhere down the line we all get this treatment.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Black Mage is the most well oiled DPS class at the moment

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Pretty much this.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

It's very obvious that either a new developer made RDM and SAM, of they simply chaired more for them.

All the jobs in ARR are littered with hindrances to their jobs, drawbacks, clunky mechanics etc.
SAM and RDM both have no clunky mechanic or resources to stare at. And when a boss becomes untargetable, their DPS doesn't plummet because all of their buffs dropped off.
There's no drawbacks on their buffs like Monk's RoF or DRGs B4B. Really it's just overall better jobs, and I hope somewhere down the line we all get this treatment.

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I agree with this ^

Yes you can clearly see they were created with the simplification in mind from the start. Basic and optimal rotations are not so far apart (at least for red mage).
Whereas existing jobs got slapped with the simplification wish, and devs kinda screwed up big time for some of them. Even now with the patches, some still feel clunky and some combat situations are a real pain.

Boss jump in RDM ? Sure, I'll just wait.
Boss jump in DRG or MNK at the wrong time ? Nooooooo mah DPS

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Really it's just overall better jobs, and I hope somewhere down the line we all get this treatment.

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i sadly have to disagree here... if all jobs would be that simple they would be all the same and the game itself would get absolutely boring... also if there wouldn't be different mechanics and skill level to master a certain job there wouldn't be any indications of how talented or how ambitious someone is on a certain job. imagine everybody would play like a potd-made char because you don't have to dispute you any longer with in-depth systematics.... that would be awful... really really awful... – in my personal view RDM/SAM are just some kind of "beginners cls" but they shouldn't set the standart for every other cls - hell no, pls not.

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Originally Posted by Karshan

Yes you can clearly see they were created with the simplification in mind from the start. Basic and optimal rotations are not so far apart (at least for red mage).
Whereas existing jobs got slapped with the simplification wish, and devs kinda screwed up big time for some of them. Even now with the patches, some still feel clunky and some combat situations are a real pain.

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they simply turn the wrong way... I never understood why they made everything easier... well k they say they wanna make it more interesting for new player to keep up - but on the other hand its just a slap for the veterans - which if we are honest are a much more reliable payment source than newbies who quit after the test-abo... well marketing in Asia may work differently than in Europe after all who knows... - or the worst option could be... that they just try to get the last money out of the game with a server shutdown in mind focusing the next nearby years for whatever reasons : /

Red Mage and Samurai (since it's being mentioned, too) are well done if you ask me. Red Mage needs some work to make it feel less boring and too easy, but Samurai is almost perfect.
Both have a good flow in gameplay and have no drawbacks to worry about which makes them enjoyable and fun, which some past DPS jobs should've followed.

RDM is really boring. BLM is fun to play but its a pain to play during fast moving mechanics. SMN is meh. I went from using BLM in PS4 Beta to the start of SB and now i main BRD.

BRD is by far one of my favorite jobs in SB.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

BRD is by far one of my favorite jobs in SB.

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Yeah the SB one actually really feels unique and funny – can't wait for the song system they wanna implement with 4.1 - that will make Brd cls even better than it already is right now <3