Teach me when to use Onslaught.

So my WAR just hit lvl62 and I just got Onslaught. I've read multiple guides and have heard it's a great skill to use to dump excess gauge. However, wouldn't I want to save that gauge for things like FC or IB? It does generate extra enmity, so should it be used on cooldown?

Use it when you need it. When do you need it? If you're going to overflow on gauge and you're still nowhere close to a zerk window, and when you need a gap closer. It should NOT be used on cooldown if used properly.

You want to use onslaught twice per IR window, and once for every zerk window without IR.

Use it on cooldown.

When Berserk is coming off CD in 15s (2 full combos):
- if you have 80-100 gauge, use FC
- If you have 60-70 gauge, use Onslaught
- 50 or less, keep building gauge.

How about never?

You have Tomahawk/Provoke for ranged aggro and its basically free. You really rarely need a gap closer unless you're lazy, in which case you lose a bit of BG that could be used for moar Cleaves.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

How about never?

You have Tomahawk/Provoke for ranged aggro and its basically free. You really rarely need a gap closer unless you're lazy, in which case you lose a bit of BG that could be used for moar Cleaves.

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I'm going to go on a limb here and assume you have absolutely no idea what your talking about...gap closers have plenty of good uses, especially when raiding (e.g., O1s & O4s Vacuum Wave)

Example 1: You used Berserk. Berserk is about to run out. You use 1 last Fell Cleave but you still have 20-40 points on your beast gauge, and 1-2 seconds left on Berserk. Use Onslaught.

Example 2: You have 70 points on your beast gauge, and Berserk is about to come off cooldown (15 seconds or so). It will be better to wait for your Berserk before using Fell Cleave. But if you use any more generators, you'll end up overflowing. So you use Onslaught to free up gauge so that the extra points from your next Maim/Path/Eye don't just go to waste.

Example 3: Like the one above, but in this case, Inner Release is about to come off cooldown along with Berserk. You want to make sure you pull off 2 Onslaughts during Inner Release. So you can't just use Onslaught right before Berserk. You have to predict this situation and use Onslaught earlier. It becomes easier once you get the hang of the fight.

Example 4: You got knocked back really far (during Grand Cross, Vacuum Wave) or the boss is far away (Halicarnassus after tanking White Flame). Use Onslaught to get close.

Also if you use Onslaught as soon as it becomes available your DPS won't be that much different, but it's not the optimal.

Also, if you tank in defiance and don't plan to go in deliverance anytime soon (not the best way to play WAR but that's ok), use Onslaught on CD.

The gauge priority for DPS is Upheaval > FC > Onslaught > IB

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

How about never?

You have Tomahawk/Provoke for ranged aggro and its basically free. You really rarely need a gap closer unless you're lazy, in which case you lose a bit of BG that could be used for moar Cleaves.

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No offence but you have no idea what you're talking about and it shows your lack of knowledge. Please stop posting bad advice to newer players if you don't know the topic on hand.

Okay you try to use it twice in a berserk window alongside Upheaval as it adds up to 550 potency, stronger than Fell cleave(and all ogcd!), but that's only if you have enough rage when entering zerk. You want 3 Fell cleaves and 2 onslaughts/1 upheaval, but if you dont have enough, use 2 FCs, replace the third with onslaught x2/upheaval. Same goes for Inner release windows. Outside of berserk it's somewhat situational if you use FC but you usually get enough gauge for 2x onslaught/upheaval before Berserk starts again(and you should have almost 100 before entering Zerk too, 80 or 90).

So in other words, a lot.

Edit: Listen to Shinkyo^

Honestly, IMHO it should be a resource generator, not a spender. At 100 pot, it's too weak to justify using it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Honestly, IMHO it should be a resource generator, not a spender. At 100 pot, it's too weak to justify using it.

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At 100 pot for 20 gauge, it's slightly weaker than Fell Cleave and 2x stronger than Inner Beast...
Understand the move before calling it weak.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Honestly, IMHO it should be a resource generator, not a spender. At 100 pot, it's too weak to justify using it.

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That's the point. The fact that it has low potency and costs BG means you can actually use it when you need it and don't have to use it on cooldown for the DPS gain, outside of your IR window. It's not a significant loss or gain to use it at any point in the fight.

It's one of the best-designed gap closers in the game, if not the best.

Is your beast gauge full and you're just waiting for berserk to come off cooldown? Use onslaught. Want to frontload a lot of threat so that you can switch to deliverance faster? Open with onslaught. Did a pesky add appear? Use onslaught. Did you just use your six fell cleave combo? Do a quick maim combo so you can use onslaught for only 10 BG. Did onslaught just come off cooldown? Use onslaught. Basically, onslaught is whatever you want it to be. A gap closer, on OGCD attack, that key you press just because it's glowing, whatever. There's no wrong way to use it except not using it at all.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

At 100 pot for 20 gauge, it's slightly weaker than Fell Cleave and 2x stronger than Inner Beast...
Understand the move before calling it weak.

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While I agree with everything you said in your previous posts, I failed to understand your math here: How is 50 pot/10 gauge (Onslaught) "slightly" worse than 100 pot/10 gauge (FC) and "twice stronger" than 70 pot/10 gauge (IB)? Onslaught is no doubt the worst "potency per gauge" ability for Warrior, thus damage-wise it is the least efficient one. Like everyone else said, Onslaught is only good when you need to dump extra gauge, or when you need its utility (gap closing, aggro pulling).

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Originally Posted by Dinohazard

While I agree with everything you said in your previous posts, I failed to understand your math here: How is 50 pot/10 gauge (Onslaught) "slightly" worse than 100 pot/10 gauge (FC) and "twice stronger" than 70 pot/10 gauge (IB)? Onslaught is no doubt the worst "potency per gauge" ability for Warrior, thus damage-wise it is the least efficient one. Like everyone else said, Onslaught is only good when you need to dump extra gauge, or when you need its utility (gap closing, aggro pulling).

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Because Onslaught, being an oGCD is a complete potency gain. FC isn't actually worth 100pot/10 gauge, it's much less than that, and same for IB. I can't do the exact math, but you have to take into account your average PPGCD and the opportunity cost for these actions too.

When it comes down to making out using Onslaught, whenever possible, put on side one of Led Zeppelin IV.

p.s. kudos to those that know the reference.

Fell Cleave's value isn't what it says on the tin because it's a GCD. The net potency gain has to factor in the GCD action that it replaces.

When FC replaces HS:
50 gauge = 1.2(500) - 1.2(150) = 420 (84 potency/10 gauge)

When FC replaces SS*:
50 gauge = 1.2(500) - 1.2(190) - 10 gauge
60 gauge = 372
50 gauge = 310 (62 potency/10 gauge)

When FC replaces SE*:
50 gauge = 1.2(500) - 1.2(270) - 10 gauge
60 gauge = 276
50 gauge = 230 (46 potency/10 gauge)

When FC replaces SP*:
50 gauge = 1.2(500) - 1.2(270) - 20 gauge
70 gauge = 276
50 gauge = 197 (39 potency/10 gauge)

On average, you have:
50 gauge = [420 + 310 + (230)/3 + 2(197)/3]/3 = 313 (63 potency/10 gauge)

(*As a caveat here, under the effect of IR, gauge becomes more valuable, so the efficiency of these moves change because they generate gauge. For example, when you replace SS with FC in a IR window:
25 gauge = 1.2(500) - 1.2(190) - 10 gauge
35 gauge = 372
25 gauge = 266 (106 potency/10 gauge)

Ordinarily, you would expect the efficiency to double under IR, as it does when FC replaces HS (168 potency/10 gauge), Onslaught (120 potency/10 gauge), and Upheaval (360 potency/10 gauge). This is not true when FC replaces a gauge generating action, so Onslaught actually becomes more potency efficient than FC when you clip one of these combo steps out of the window.)

Onslaught:
20 gauge = 1.2(100)
10 gauge = 60

Upheaval:
20 gauge = 1.2(300)
10 gauge = 180

As you can see, Fell Cleave is in fact only marginally better than Onslaught in terms of potency efficiency. In fact, under the effect of IR, it flat out beats it when performing an additional FC clips any combo action other than HS in the window. FC's real strength is in fitting in as much potency in a window as possible.

The take-home message, though, is that you should never feel bad about using Onslaught as utility. You are inevitably going to lose more dps from a lost GCD than you will from being marginally less potency efficient than FC (3 potency on average).

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

It's one of the best-designed gap closers in the game, if not the best.

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I'd disagree. So many other melee gap closers do not consume any resources. Look at DRK's Plunge. Zero resource and its 200 potency, where at Onslaught costs BG and is a small 100 potency. Far from being the best desgined gap closer.

That said, I am not denying that it is useful in many scenarios.

I guess I been playing wrong i never use that ability im either tryin to do more fc, or using upheaval , guess ill start using it now

Another advantage to it is how much it helps holding hate in deliverance or remaining second place on the hate list for certain mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Syrus_Draco

I'd disagree. So many other melee gap closers do not consume any resources. Look at DRK's Plunge. Zero resource and its 200 potency, where at Onslaught costs BG and is a small 100 potency. Far from being the best desgined gap closer.

That said, I am not denying that it is useful in many scenarios.

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Though it is half the potency it is also half the cooldown and has a longer range. The 5 extra distance is really nice for getting back to the boss in a lot of fights. Plus oGCD enmity generation. There are definitely downsides to both tank gap closers.

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Originally Posted by Syrus_Draco

I'd disagree.

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Plunge has that horrible animation lock, onslaught doesn't. Plunge needs to be used on CD to put it best to use, onslaught doesn't. plus, its gauge cost isn't a deal breaker considering you have to dump gauge on something, and that its gauge cost makes it a bit behind FC makes it not so bad in the long run. the longer distance is also much more useful than plunge's.

I play both and I definitely enjoy the feel of onslaught waay more than plunge.

The worst part of Onslaught is that it makes such a good oGCD attack, that you will never actually want to save it to be used as a gap closer. Muscle memory also may mess with you, accidentally clicking it when you were attempting to get away from an AoE only to realize now you back in the middle of it :p (or maybe that's just me :rolleyes:)

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Originally Posted by Hierro

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Wouldn't say an animation look is such a huge deal considering DRG has to deal with it all the time.

DPS wise you need two Onslaughts to equal out one Plunge. While Onslaught has a shorter CD that could equate to a single Plunge, you're not going to use it oCD, so in practice the DPS gain from Onslaught falls off compared to Plunge. This is also into account when save the gap closers for specific mechanics. The distance difference isn't really a drop in the bucket. There are like one or two instances where the distance difference of the gap closers comes into play, and even then, there's Sprint to make up the difference.

Again, not saying Onslaught is useless, but it's not perfect.

I suppose we value different things, I would say the animation lock is actually one of my least favorite attributes on plunge. Overall I feel like these are things which are just flavors of the class, though onslaught is half the strength, there are times where I really wish plunge had a shorter CD, even just 10 seconds shorter. However, the shorter CD and longer range or onslaught also give it a flexibility that is the flavor of warrior.

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Originally Posted by Syrus_Draco

I'd disagree. So many other melee gap closers do not consume any resources. Look at DRK's Plunge. Zero resource and its 200 potency, where at Onslaught costs BG and is a small 100 potency. Far from being the best desgined gap closer.

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There's a difference between being the best designed move and the most potent.
Other gap closers have a very straight forward purpose and effect whereas onslaught dps benefit is a lot more subtle and indirect. There's depth to the move as oppose to just hitting the button on CD.

I definitely find it to be an extremely well designed move.

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Originally Posted by Syrus_Draco

I'd disagree. So many other melee gap closers do not consume any resources. Look at DRK's Plunge. Zero resource and its 200 potency, where at Onslaught costs BG and is a small 100 potency. Far from being the best desgined gap closer.

That said, I am not denying that it is useful in many scenarios.

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You literally just said the exact reason it's so well-designed as the reason it isn't. Most of the other gap closers are powerful and free enough to need to be used on cooldown for DPS. Onslaught isn't. It can actually be used as an effective gap closer when it's needed. The others can't, outside of planning the whole fight around them.

It's not really a matter of opinion.

after zerk falls off you will need to use it twice in that window or you will over cap. 2 onlsaughts, 1 upheaval = 60 gauge dump before next zerk window. If you use a fellcleave and upheaval for that window it is 70 gauge dump and a gcd behind so you will have even less gauge for the upcoming zerk window.

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Originally Posted by Ags

So my WAR just hit lvl62 and I just got Onslaught. I've read multiple guides and have heard it's a great skill to use to dump excess gauge. However, wouldn't I want to save that gauge for things like FC or IB? It does generate extra enmity, so should it be used on cooldown?

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Here's a basic that should tell you everything you need.

You have two zerk windows at 70 right? The one that allows you to do six cleaves and the one that gives you just the three cleaves. Now, between these windows of zerk you'll find that you'll get close to your max gauge quite a bit before your next zerk is ready, that's why you use onslaught and upheavel (do it early after you finish your zerk cleaves, not later on only when you get close to the max gauge)

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Originally Posted by TheCount

Here's a basic that should tell you everything you need.

You have two zerk windows at 70 right? The one that allows you to do six cleaves and the one that gives you just the three cleaves. Now, between these windows of zerk you'll find that you'll get close to your max gauge quite a bit before your next zerk is ready, that's why you use onslaught and upheavel (do it early after you finish your zerk cleaves, not later on only when you get close to the max gauge)

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I wanted to build further on this. Keep an eye on your berserk cooldown. Here's how much gauge you will generate in various intervals like 15 seconds and 20 seconds.

About 6 GCDs within 15 seconds nets you:
50 gauge minimum (if SE/BB is used within this time frame)
60 gauge maximum

About 8 GCDs within 20 seconds nets you:
60 gauge (if you start with HS into SE. OR if you start with HS into an SP into SE combo.) 22% of all possible GCD combos within 20 seconds.
70 gauge (if you start with SE, or the HS after SE, or either of the two SP's during this window.) 44% possibility
80 gauge (if you start with Maim during a 20 second duration.) 33% possibility

So what does all of this mean? You glance at your Berserk CD, Upheaval CD, your current Beast Gauge, and your Storm's Eye timer. You determine roughly (give or take 10 gauge) how much gauge you'll get in that timeframe, keeping in mind to use SE near the end of that time. Safely assume you're dumping 20 gauge with Upheaval, and now need to determine how many more intervals of 20 you need to drop to avoid overflow.

This usually means, onslaught twice, upheaval once. This means you must use onslaught in advance, 50 to 60 gauge (like +20 seconds left on Berserk CD) to ensure the it is ready again. If you wait until you're at 70 gauge or above before using onslaught, you'll overcap before the CD is back up.