SE what is up with these bogus raid loot rules?

So Im newer to raiding been doing the ex primals mostly and just leveling jobs etc never prioritized raiding. I only did some coil sync but over geared cause I came in hw, and just did alex 1, 4, 9 , and some of 6 and 10. I wanted to prioritize it this time around, and I have to say I can see why some people dont raid these loot rules are so stupid.

So I had been working on v2s for a few days pugging so I acutally skipped even doing v1s for the week. Little did I know that just because I skipped and went straight into v2s, even before I cleared that I lost out on a page for the week on v1s. And that it actually ruined a whole groups clear because I went back and did it not knowing I was counted as clear for v1s despite not touching it the whole week and they where really pissed because they where expecting two chest. Also I can see what people meant when they say it really discourages people from helping others out. Because I have been in several learning groups that will not except help from people whom have already cleared just because of the dreams of an rng chest. This is so stupid how can you run the normal raids all day and it will make it to where you cant roll on an item but yet you cant do the same thing in savage mood?

While indicators would be nice (and used to be there), most experienced players even if they don't raid already knew about it. There's been multiple threads lately (including one with a gm response I believe) discussing it and with your apparent forum activity you should've seen it. So yes, a warning would've been nice but you should've known better already..

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Originally Posted by F_Maximillian

While indicators would be nice (and used to be there), most experienced players even if they don't raid already knew about it. There's been multiple threads lately (including one with a gm response I believe) discussing it and with your apparent forum activity you should've seen it. So yes, a warning would've been nice but you should've known better already..

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Well I know now and I feel bad for doing what I did but it still makes little sense at all. Why are things this way in the first place, there is no reason to have such strict rules when this is literally such niche content anyway you figure they would be more lax to get more people interested.

Before joining any PF for savage raids, I always pull up the RF and check to see if I've already gotten my drops for the week. Especially if it's later in the week and I can't remember if I did a certain floor. The game has a better memory than I do sometimes. :p

I know in your case, you say you didn't know, but this loot system has been around for a long time.

Also, when joining PF, if it says "v1s and v2s, two chests" make sure you aren't joining the v2s portion and the party leader forgot to update the PF info.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

This is so stupid how can you run the normal raids all day and it will make it to where you cant roll on an item but yet you cant do the same thing in savage mood?

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The strict loot system is in place to make it harder for people that sell runs and also because it gives gear that won't be outdated for another 5 months. They let you run around in normal as much as you want because the loot is only i320, which you can get off the MB. i340 only comes from savage for another 2 or so months.

I do agree that skipping ahead shouldn't invalidate previous turn loot since you technically didn't even do it.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

The strict loot system .

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Its a huge inconvenience, because pugging the other two is gona be hard enough but then you have to go back and do the first two before u even get to the harder raids every week so you dont mess up your pages. Who came up with this stuff, and I understand the selling runs stuff , but I mean people are gona do that anyway so I dont see what they are actually preventing. It would be alot better to just not allow those whom have cleared already to roll on loot and not effect everyone else, sometimes the games logic just doesnt make much sense at all.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Its a huge inconvenience, because pugging the other two is gona be hard enough but then you have to go back and do the first two before u even get to the harder raids every week so you dont mess up your pages. Who came up with this stuff, and I understand the selling runs stuff , but I mean people are gona do that anyway so I dont see what they are actually preventing. It would be alot better to just not allow those whom have cleared already to roll on loot and not effect everyone else, sometimes the games logic just doesnt make much sense at all.

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People are gonna sell anyway yes, but how it is now they have to make completely new characters to not nerf the chests. If they didn't have it they could just roll with their 7 mains and give the buyer all the loot every time as many times they want. Right now if they did 7 people with clears the 8th person gets nothing, only the page.

One of the main reasons they added this is because people wanted a way to help their friends get clears (basically if they didn't care about the loot, just the clear) after their first of the week. This system didn't exist during launch.

Because the content is intended for statics.

Join a static if you want to raid.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Because the content is intended for statics.

Join a static if you want to raid.

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Ok but, if the content is 100% intended for statics, why can you pug it at all? I could understand this back when you had to sit at the entrance to get in as a full party, but now we have multiple ways to match a bunch of random people into a group to complete specifically these raids.

I feel like if you skipped a turn, running it again should net you the page at least, since you still did complete it for the week.

(fyi, I'm in a 6/8 static that's trying to recruit two melee dps, and the random 2 we pug each week ALWAYS WIN THE UPGRADE ITEMS. IT IS VERY ANNOYING)

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Originally Posted by F_Maximillian

While indicators would be nice (and used to be there),

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Well RF, now known as High-end Duty DF, does have these warnings. It tells you what each option does and what happens if something is askew.
Everything bswpayton was complaining about is explained in the DF little help area.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Because the content is intended for statics.

Join a static if you want to raid.

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Where In an official statement does se say that? I'll wait

One of the mods said you can que in raidfinder for "duty completion", it will only allow people who have not received the weekly reward to que. Does skipping a floor and getting logged as reward received bypass this or something? If so that might be a bug. I've never skipped a floor so I don't know the details.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Well RF, now known as High-end Duty DF, does have these warnings. It tells you what each option does and what happens if something is askew.
Everything bswpayton was complaining about is explained in the DF little help area.

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Yes there is some stuff explained there but it makes no sense. It is hard to understand something with no logical backing.

1. It does not explain what duty complete means, why am I selecting this?
2. It does not explain what duty incomplete means, why am I slecting this?
What does ^ have to do with loot?
Why am I selecting first phase and final phase?

Basically it has unnecessary complexity and people pick some 320 penta melding over 340's anyway, they make it sound they need state rules for the Olympics or something, completely unnecessary for a game like this.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

One of the mods said you can que in raidfinder for "duty completion", it will only allow people who have not received the weekly reward to que. Does skipping a floor and getting logged as reward received bypass this or something? If so that might be a bug. I've never skipped a floor so I don't know the details.

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Remember people on the forums are minority.

Raiding in FFXIV is not fun with all the gates they have in place. I dont bother with it anymore for the reasons above and more. There is absolutely no reason at all for there to be so many gates in this game. We pay a sub for a reason so we dont have to deal with the bs that comes with F2P mmo's.... And no having gates does not keep people playing the game for the long haul. If anything having these kinds of gates makes players look elsewhere for raid style content.

Would I like to run savage raids?... You bet!! But not with the restrictions that are in place atm...

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Yes there is some stuff explained there but it makes no sense. It is hard to understand something with no logical backing.

1. It does not explain what duty complete means, why am I selecting this?
2. It does not explain what duty incomplete means, why am I slecting this?
What does ^ have to do with loot?

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It doesn't? Not everything in the DF info panel is related to loot. And the first point is clearly explained in the info panel: "*The "Duty Complete" option is only available for previously completed duties." IE: You need to have cleared a duty before you can select that option. Selecting this option will make it so the DF will only throw you into a group with people that no longer have their first time bonus. Point 2 is the exact opposite, and shouldn't really need to be explained, since the explanation for point 1 indirectly does that.

Or another simple way, if you can't select the Duty Complete matching requirement, you obviously don't meet the requirement.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Why am I selecting first phase and final phase?

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To indicate which part a player wants to practice, with the DF picking players that have picked the same option.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Basically it has unnecessary complexity and people pick 320 penta melding over 340's anyway, they make it sound they need state rules for the Olympics or something, completely unnecessary for a game like this.

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I don't see how complex, it's pretty easy to understand by just reading the info panel. And only tanks will pick i320 accessories over i340 ones.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Because the content is intended for statics.

Join a static if you want to raid.

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and that's why I don't even attempt this content.

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Originally Posted by rjspencer4

and that's why I don't even attempt this content.

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What he said is not a true statement

The lockout system plastered over the entire game is stupid.
Always has been stupid, always will be stupid. However they are not going to improve it greatly aside from a few tweaks. Just something we have to live with.
It isn't just the raid loot system that has this issue - the weekly tomes is another.

Reason they won't change it is it gates people's progression and keeps them subbed for longer while they release more content.

The issue with doing a higher tier locking you from loot on the lower regardless of weekly completion I believe is simply carried over from pre-raid finder, where the moment you entered the duty you were synced to that fight.

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Originally Posted by rjspencer4

and that's why I don't even attempt this content.

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It's very far from the truth majority of this game is pugable Including savage...Statics haven't been needed since Gordias A3s besides that
*¯\_(ツ)_/¯*

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Because the content is intended for statics.

Join a static if you want to raid.

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Back in the day I agree that raiding was literally just meant to be ran by statics, also the reason we didn't have it available via DF for a long time, but that changed with HW.

And while I agree that it is easier with statics, because you have people that are like minded, there's nothing wrong with pugging, if and here's the problem, the person that joins the group would put some effort into research.

As OP has proven in many topics prior, always late to the game, always annoyed by the "current" system that doesn't give out freebies. Even tho in most cases it has been already adjusted, like running Coil in HW and thinking that this is hard content and need nerfs/adjustments, so that they can clear it for WT etc.

Clearly there's more to it then just jumping into a PF party and hope that the next person carries you through the content. Sadly, that isn't new tho, and as we have seen, OP couldn't even be bothered to read up on raiding or the requirements/rules that goes with it, ruining it for the other parties that pug'd for 2 chests that week. But hey, at the end it's always the system that's bad, right?

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

Back in the day I agree that raiding was literally just meant t

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wasn't trying to get a carry and also didn't run coil either as I mentioned many times unless its solo I don't do content I haven't done sync first. But to the topic sorry I didn't look up a rule I had no idea needed to be research it's a stupid rule and should be done away with anyway. It's stupid that they make u go in an order they see fit

Maybe the devs should just bring back the old ARR raid rule.
Surely the people don't like the new raid rule.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Maybe the devs should just bring back the old ARR raid rule.
Surely the people don't like the new raid rule.

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Was this your response to calls to fix other problems? The possibility of having an even more dysfunctional system does nothing to change the prevailing reality that the best defense of the current savage loot rules is that they're just loot rules.

As a disclaimer: I`m not a big fan of the current loot rules, but I`m planning to play devil`s advocate using my own experience working on an MMO before.

While the easy answer is to say it`s to curb sales, there can be an equally valid reasoning in that they simply want to limit the rate at which current raid gear is distributed into the public. In the current loot rules, you can get 4 chests per every 16 uncleared people. But if they changed the loot rules to say, 2 chests always drop, but people who've already cleared can't roll, you could astronomically increase the amount of current raid loot being pushed into the general public.

1 group of 8 = 2 chests, then 7 of those help the remaining 8 people get 2 chests a pop = 18 chests total. Obviously this is the far extreme of the situation, but when it comes to game development, you do have to take extreme possibilities into question to prevent abuse or exploitation from the systems you implement. FF14 is designed at the core level to keep players subbed as long as possible, the abundance of lockouts shows this. Their chest system is designed so that the amount of raid loot entering the public stays at the rate they want it to, to make players stay subbed as long as possible.

Now the whole 'jumping to a later fight auto-clears the previous one' is ridiculous and really needs a big-ass warning or forced "do you really wish to do this?" that everyone in the party would need to accept before the queue is allowed to proceed, but I have a suspicion that's more of a technical limitation in how they've programmed the weekly progression checks than anything.

Again, just playing devil's advocate.