Hey all. This thread goes out to all my Ex-WoW players who came over to this game to recapture that glory WoW had waaaaaaaaaay back in the day. Before the all devouring beast known as Activision offering them one of the 9 rings of man and turned them into a shadow of themselves today.
So, today, a friend of mine, who is still stuck playing Blizzard's shell game due to technical limitations (I keep on encouraging her to join us over here, don't worry), asked me to look up something, and, while looking for the answer, I found this on the forums.
http://i.imgur.com/rsodsiY.png
To clarify, that is a blizzard employee, Oathiie, telling people to uninstall and quit playing the game if they don't like what he, the LORD AND MASTER, has implemented. Nice to see Blizzard's cancerous ego hasn't changed eh?
But, getting to my point. Let us offer a heart felt thank you to Blizzard. Thank you for being obnoxious arrogant jerks. Thank you for driving your player base away and allowing them to find this bastion of wonder and happiness. Thank you for letting FF14 reach 10 million active accounts. Though SE certainly achieved a good part of that based on their own merits, we couldn't have done it without you. Keep doing EXACTLY what you are doing. Your failure is our gain, and you are driving people into our arms. :cool:
Appreciation for the competition
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09-01-2017, 02:08 PMPonderaAppreciation for the competition
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09-01-2017, 02:30 PMMoonfish
Stay classy, Blizzard.
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09-01-2017, 04:12 PMLambdafish
Meanwhile the Rising is currently happening in which the XIV dev team publicly thanks us for playing, and sticking with them through both good and bad.
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09-01-2017, 04:17 PMCenerae
As an ex WoW player myself, I wouldn't really say FF14 has anything much in common with the WoW of yore.
It does make a refreshing change to play a game where the developers actually care about the playerbase though, as opposed to Blizzard ignoring all the feedback they get and telling everyone that they know what we want really and then getting surprised when actually, they didn't. <_< -
09-01-2017, 04:20 PMVahlnirYeah, I play both games and enjoy both, but I feel XIV's dev team could learn a few things from WoW. That said, the dev team here seems to care a whole lot more than the WoW team does and seem to be at the very least open to any and all feedback. WoW devs have been mostly passive aggressive since their last expansion, WoD, nearly killed the game. Legion is pretty decent, but it's certainly no Wrath of the Lich King.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenerae
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09-01-2017, 04:28 PMCeneraeLegion and the way they handled gearing was the final straw for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
I would agree that WoW does do some things better than FF14, but I just can't stomach any more of the treadmill. It's nice to kick back and relax here and not feel obligated to grind mythic dungeons in the vague hope a usefully statted item titanforges enough to be useful for me. -
09-01-2017, 04:30 PMNinjaTaru72I'm glad they don't learn from wowQuote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
I don't want that garbage anywhere near my ffxiv. I played ffxi, and ffxiv because they are final fantasy. Amd I like how they are handled. Woe can go burn in a corner for all I care -
09-01-2017, 04:38 PMVahlnirWoW was the father of the modern MMO, aka XIV 2.0 as we know it. It has more in common than you'd think, seeing as XIV 2.0 was a "tribute" to WoW. Just putting that out there. If it wasn't for WoW, XIV as it is now probably wouldn't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72
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09-01-2017, 05:06 PMGalgarion
World of warcraft is the biggest MMO ever. Everything it does is the world's longest victory lap. It'll probably never die. I might still be playing it if they hadn't broken my class.
Oh, well. I like FFXIV better. Not for any particular reason. I just like Eorzea better than Azeroth. -
09-01-2017, 05:13 PMLambdafishTechnically correct but so wrong on many levels. XIV 2.0 isn't a "tribute" to WoW, nor did it inspire XIV as we know it. When 1.0 failed, Yoshi P gave the developers subscriptions to WoW and other successful tab target MMOs to research what makes them successful, and from that research we got the current iteration of XIV, with tab target combat, and WoWesque dungeons and raids, but I would say XI has been as much of an influence, with specific features such as the job system, hunts, and deep dungeon being heavily inspired by its spiritual predecessor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
At the end of the day, XIV is its own game and it has done many things differently, and even some things better than WoW. You are right in saying that without WoW the current iteration of XIV wouldn't exist, but the same could be said of many MMOs (because that's how market research works), and at this point, XIV is so far along that it has developed its own reputation and its own successes that WoW can learn from. -
09-01-2017, 05:22 PMVahlnirIn an article from back when 2.0 was released, Yoshi said himself about it being a bit of a tribute, so it did play some part in Yoshi's planning. Not a full blown tribute, mind you, but he definitely got some ideas. WoW also borrowed from other MMOs, but such things got more exposure or were perfected just by being in that game. XI definitely inspired XIV a good bit, that much is plain to see, and I think that was probably the best part. I played XI and enjoyed it to death. And yes, XIV is definitely running on its own success now, with a more caring dev team to boot. XIV is superior now in some areas, while WoW has its things. They could learn from each other, really. I view XIV highly, and definitely play it more than WoW anymore (though I enjoy both games still)...No doubt it's a superior game on way more fronts, but people tend to forget the origins of this game and decide to trash it instead. Or they know and just trash it anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
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09-01-2017, 05:30 PMNezerius
So one guy saying something on their personal Twitter account suddenly represents the entire company? You should know that the employees personal accounts haven't been used for any official stance for a while now. It all goes through the official WoW Twitter account.
Besides, there's things that Blizzard does right. From simple things like being able to mail items to alts, to having a glamour log. -
09-01-2017, 05:35 PMThe_Last_DragoonActually, FFXIV takes a hell of a lot more from XI and SE has come out publicly saying that it's because of the long standing success of XI that XIV was even considered as an MMO. When 1.0 failed, sure they said that they took a step back and looked at "successful" MMOs to learn from them, but I think even then they were influenced more by Guild Wars 2 if anything at all outside of simply updating XI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
Granted, while this conversation feels off-topic somewhat, and I've personally been off the WoW train since the beginning of MoP and dabbled in a LOT of other MMOs until FFXIV came out. I have to say though that I think the real main reason why this game has so much staying power is the strength of it's crafting system and the openness of the development team on stuff about the game. Hell, when Yoshida was giving the NY opening keynote message and started getting bad vibes from the crowds because he couldn't reveal that much I felt pretty bad for him. Not only was the expansion 8 months away from releasing, but things needed to be held back for the next two fan festivals. I've never been so much on the developers side when it comes to MMOs before because I've never had the type of insight into their inner workings like we get to enjoy with Yoshida and his team. -
09-01-2017, 05:43 PMVahlnirAnd I agree that the XI influence is prevalent, and I have no issue with that whatsoever. That's part of the game's success. I went from XI, which I still speak fondly of to WoW. That said, they picked up on a few things from WoW, some of which even WoW borrowed from elsewhere, but perfected in a sense. WoW's not the king anymore, and I'd give that to XIV in a heartbeat. They've got a good thing going, along with probably the best dev team I've seen in a long, long time. They genuinely care. WoW's devs are in perma-passive aggressive mode the last couple years. My whole point is, people will trash WoW just by mentioning it, when they don't get the full picture. And XIV could stand to borrow an idea or 2 more, that's all. MMOs continually borrow from others based on the success of whatever features are being passed around. WoW's not the devil some make it out to be. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon
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09-01-2017, 06:13 PMRemedi
TBF in the documentary they did say that one of the reason 1.0 failed was because ppl were not in touch with what mmos in the market were and they said that they had to play and know wow to get how to build a functioning mmo
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09-01-2017, 07:29 PMJunseiKeiLet us not forget Nostalrius and Blizzard's comment to legacy servers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pondera
One point OQuote:
Originally Posted by Remedi
I will shamelessly bump this guy's work. He did a really great job. -
09-01-2017, 07:59 PMRemedi
Idd it was
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09-01-2017, 09:02 PMLambdafishPeople have been fired for less, a developer talking about the game they are working on is representing the company.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
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09-01-2017, 10:58 PMStormfur
I don't think FFXIV is so much a tribute to WoW but you've got to remember, WoW is ancient in terms of MMO development. So a lot of the things they did first that worked, FFXIV took a page from their playbook and ran with it. It happens in all MMOs to this day. So maybe a tribute in that way. I still don't think that's the right word...
The FFXIV team has done a lot of things right, and some things wrong, and they've definitely course-corrected. It's refreshing to see them actually take player feedback into account on top of all the things we don't know that happen behind the scenes.
I just wish YoshiP & Co. would take off the blinders when it comes to PVP. It's really struggling now and I don't think they see that. Sure, the playerbase that does PVP AND is registered on the forums is probably a fraction of a percent, but they've put out some ideas (and so have I) that would really improve the game by leaps and bounds and it feels like no one wants to listen :( -
09-01-2017, 11:38 PMPonderaIf it was just this isolated incident alone, I would say no, but Blizzard has a long history of disrespecting its fans, disregarding feedback, and parading their ego around. This just fits the pattern. I'm really glad FF14 doesn't do any of that. Naoki Yoshida has more talent and passion for gaming in his pinky that in the entirety of Blizzard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
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09-02-2017, 12:17 AMVoltyblast
To be fair, in my experience with all Blizzard (so not just WoW, but also OW and HoTS and HS and SC and anything they make really) I've seen so many people who will nitpick anything that isn't like vanilla (there are legitimate cases of feedback ignore but that's another topic) so saying stuff like "uninstall the game" is often enough a way to tell them "we're tired of the same complaints, stop playing and move on".
I'm not defending Blizzard and their ways: they can be quite scummy and i know a lot of friends who got turned off by them (I was lucky to never had issues though), but I'd say they're not the biggest evil.
Unlike, say, Konami.
But thankfully this doesn't happen in FFXIV! I mean, nobody ever bashes any criticism about the game and is told to "stop play the game if you don't like" or "unsub cause this game isn't for you", or when they constantly have to remind us that FF11 was superior and they should take more from that game instead.
That would be sillly! -
09-02-2017, 01:13 AMNaunetYoshi has even explicitly stated that he used WoW as inspiration for designing things in FFXIV. :P Sorry!Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72
Honestly, it kind of amuses me that folk are getting bent out of shape over this guy's tweet - when the forums are FULL of people telling others to gtfo of this game for making suggestions that they feel might improve things.
I also tried to verify that tweet and find it suspicious that I cannot find it. Granted this may be due to my unfamiliarity with Twitter, but I do know that tweets are very easy to fake. -
09-02-2017, 01:20 AMSicariusSeven
Everquest, Runescape, and Ultima Online may have been the granddaddy of MMOs but WoW is the current reigning King but only because of sheer numbers. They reached their peak with Wrath but have been unable to get those numbers again ever since. WoD pissed off their playerbase and Legion ran out of steam early on. While XIV did look at WoW at one point for inspiration and Yoshi has praised the game, at this point it's Apples and Bananas.
WoW will always be WoW. FF XIV will always be FF XIV. They have similarities and are both in the same fruit salad but in the end players will always have their own tastes. I used to play WoW but not anymore. Now FF XIV is my passion. Will that last? Who knows? I know myself and a few of my friends get MMO burn out now and then but we come back to what we love. -
09-02-2017, 01:29 AMWalfanHave you even played WoW ? Or are you being a blind fanboy riding the hate bandwagon ?Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72
WoW has done a lot of wrong but a lot of good as well. Like a far better netcode, a completely customizable interface, actually threw in the effort to fix inventory space instead of always blaming the servers... FFXIV is also really aged in terms of overall "fluidity", like the horrible interface and grating things such as having to manually dismount all the time or the sluggish movement. Coming from WoW, FFXIV always feels like you're slogging through a swamp.
It also has things to do outside of instanced content, Diadem could have actually been interesting from the start if you didn't have to commit to an instance. You know like whole zones or mini-zones with quests and reputations and other random stuff to do, like WoW does. I always have things to do in WoW when I don't want to put in too much effort, don't have too much time or if I'm waiting for a queue, it's a bit more difficult in FFXIV.
It's a true open world and doesn't have invisible walls everywhere, you can actually see and go to everything on the Broken Isles from the top of Highmountain.
I'd argue mythic raiding mechanics are also more elaborate and harder than savage, it just sucks they keep dumbing down classes.
FFXIV is also criminally limiting in terms of fun items to use beyond fireworks. No bombs I can craft, no gliders, no fun transformative items, no robot I can summon to repair and sell my trash to.
Both games need to learn from eachother, especially FFXIV which is still young and fresh and would benefit a lot from it. Unfortunetly I'm afraid they'll never be able to fix the broken infrastructure from 1.0 which is limiting them incredibly.
I've been playing WoW and FFXIV for a LONG time now and I wish I could get that perfect game that takes the good sides of both of them. -
09-02-2017, 01:33 AMC-croftI have yet to see an SE employee use personal or company resources tovexpress these opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
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09-02-2017, 01:44 AMNezeriusWhich is why Blizzard changed the way they handle tweets. It used to be devs using their own twitter accounts to answer questions/announce stuff, but that didn't work out well (since people couldn't differentiate between official tweets, and personal opinions.) After that, Blizzard switched to a single WoW twitter account for all its related news, and stated that the tweets from personal accounts didn't represent the company's stance. For example, Holinka (PvP lead dev) didn't get fired when he posted his own (dumb) opinions every now and then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
I'm sure some of the XIV PvP playerbase would completely agree with you regarding feedback, especially on the subject of being able to chat in the Feast. /sQuote:
Originally Posted by Pondera
Both games have good and bad points, neither game is perfect.
Perhaps not in the simple way of "just uninstall the game", but Yoshi-P himself has stated that it's okay for players to take a break to do other things/play other games, once those players feel like they've reached their goals in XIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by C-croft
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09-02-2017, 01:52 AMPonderaNot my point. I'm not making commentary about their games. I'm saying that Blizzard de s have let their egos cloud their sense of good development. They are arrogant stupid jerks and I find their behavior completely detestable, and, while it may be true that that attitude tends to seep through into their games, the stuff that comes out of their mouths is far far worse. It's like they hate moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Voltyblast
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09-02-2017, 03:39 AMVahlnirI can attest to this from personal experience. Wasn't long ago that they nearly killed WoW through sheer ego alone. To me it's amazing that they still have their jobs. It's obvious their hands are a bit tied now, they lost Blizzard millions of dollars...and millions of players to give them dollars that they'll probably never get back. Those devs are clearly salty to this day though, and it's rare that they try to hide it. XIV's dev team is a nice chance a pace in that regard. Having a team working on the game that's as passionate for it as the people who play it is a great recipe for success.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pondera
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09-02-2017, 04:04 AMRemedi
Honestly it's to the point that blizzard can do w/e they want and ppl will still buy from them, that's not the case with SE where ppl will go to their throat even for a simpe hi
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09-02-2017, 04:19 AMTaleraRistainThis comes with time. WoW launched in 2004. That was 13 years ago. And it didn't start with all those things. FFXIV in its current iteration is only just 4 years old. And already there have been tweaks and improvements the way that WoW and all other MMOs improve themselves. This is still a young game and the developers are still learning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
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09-02-2017, 04:57 AMRemediIf I'm not wrong 2.0 was also built with not really the top end tech behind and in 2 years I think? so yes things will come over time and the game is quite youngQuote:
Originally Posted by TaleraRistain
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09-02-2017, 07:50 AMNaunetThey didn't start with those things because MMOs were still in their infancy. Nowadays there's little excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaleraRistain
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09-02-2017, 09:06 AMNezeriusThis is a really weak excuse, as SE has had experience with MMOs since before the release of WoW, namely with the release of FFXI in 2002, as well as the release of 1.0 in 2010. While these two things are obviously not the same as the current version of XIV, one thing that should carry over from MMO to MMO, from the same company, is proper netcode. Something WoW does right, but XIV still seems to struggle with.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaleraRistain
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09-02-2017, 12:42 PMVoltyblastDidn't Yoshida say himself that "it's okay to play other games between patches"? It's not as arrogant as, say, uninstall your game, but it's pretty careless and silly considering that YOU DO WANT players to keep playing your game: it's what keeps the game afloat and running. It might not be egocentric, it might not be arrogant, but it sure is stupid to say something like that to a MMORPG player base and I've NEVER - and I do mean NEVER - seen any company saying to play other games between downtime instead of playing their paid MMORPG. If anything I've seen the complete opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by C-croft
So no, it might not be egocentric, but it sure is stupid and shows little to no faith for their player base...or I'm just thinking too deep. Take it as you will.
I can't disagree: they tend to ignore feedback quite a lot and even if I love games like Overwatch and heroes of the storm, they seem to listen to the very small competitive crowd most of the time than the main one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pondera
But you must also give them credit for trying new things which are something that SE seems too scared to do: WoD was a failure BUT I admire the fact that they tried something different and, without hypocrisy, I thought the Garrison idea was good on paper until they went full "idle game".
With Legion, knowing they couldn't screw up, did all they could with stuff like Artifact (which is billions of times better than our lame Relic), World Quests (Hate it or love it, the keep the game world filled with life and busy) and just recently their new patch introduced 3 new giant areas filled with new content to do.
Yes, they are egocentric jerks, but they are "inventive" egocentric jerks...and as much as I like both games, WoW at least experiments and tries new things EVERY EXPANSION and it's why I always keep playing it: I'm always curious of what they're gonna do next and even if I don't like it or anything...who cares, I'm fairly casual anyway and it's where all of my friends play (whereas nobody stayed in ffxiv for more than a month)
Meanwhile, we had to wait for Stormblood to (finally) get class changes and some PVP changes and what else? More story? Hahahaha. Let me be blunt: if SB didn't have class changes, I wouldn't have bothered at all and despite being a "filthy casual", I get pretty bored of doing the same 3 dungeon roulette every day: I already cleared one primal out of pure boredom and only took me two attempts and when I clear Susano, then what?
Take your poison I suppose. And please don't tell me to unsub the game would you :)