Do we have any reason to believe Susano is a primal?

I know big strong aetheric based mass is often a primal, but with Midgardsormr we know that isn't always so. Susano also doesn't seem to exhibit any sort of behaviors that we've seen in other primals.

He never tempers anyone, has no hunger for aether, and was not summoned by a ritual.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

I know big strong aetheric based mass is often a primal, but with Midgardsormr we know that isn't always so. Susano also doesn't seem to exhibit any sort of behaviors that we've seen in other primals.

He never tempers anyone, has no hunger for aether, and was not summoned by a ritual.

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To be honest he wasn't really around long enough to hunger for aether so we don't know about that one. As for tempering, tempering is an active ability of a primal. Not all primals bother with it. Honestly, a lot of the beast tribe primals probably don't bother except in defense. Ramuh only tempered the Sylphs because they specifically asked him to.

Ramuh wasn't like that.
And Shiva as well.
I like Susanoo's personality because he
seemed like he was having fun. Reminds me of Gregamesh!

He's the nicest primal I've ever met. You smash him in the face and he's still cordial about it.

I invite you to repost this in the Lore subforum where the loremongers could look it up easier :D

Besides that, the main thing that concerns me (and others) about Susano-o is that he apparently had already been summoned and had been divided between the three treasures which, like Odin, seem to hint that the primal itself is the treasures and was just in a dormant state yet, again outside Odin, that does not work like any other primal we know about. Probably more of a thing about Othardian "primals" being encased in objects rather than "free-roaming" like Eorzean primals but, who knows?

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Ramuh wasn't like that.
And Shiva as well.

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Shiva as well as the Knights of the Round are pretty different in regards to primals. In fact the only similarity they have between them and the other primals is that they're based on legends. It's possible they aren't primals at all, but conflating them benefits the Ascians. Ramuh also definitely had the ability to temper. In fact what's weird about Shiva is that she has the Echo and is thus immune to tempering, but she was still able to become one. Perhaps its similar to what Zenos did.

He wasn't really cordial to me after a while - I don't know if it was my response to the branching dialogue that did it but he suddenly turned menacing which only encouraged the thrashing I gave him :p

Either way, Susano's summoning seemed too convenient to me to be merely 'accidental' - I kept expecting an Ascian to be seen lurking in the shadows (alas there was none).

We do know that Primals can be sealed within objects (Bahamut was after all sealed within Dalamud, Odin within Urth's Font, and the Warring Triad within that ancient Allagan tech in Azys Lla, to say nothing of Primals being sealed under Silvertear Lake which were released when the Agrius crashed into it and exploded), so who is to say that Susano was not some ancient Primal from however many years ago that was sealed within those three treasures of the Kojin (remember also that the Kojin believed that 'kami' inhabited those objects, sounded a lot like aether to me), which reuniting the items together... broke the seal and released him.

Either way, there is definitely precedent for his unexpected summoning.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

He wasn't really cordial to me after a while - I don't know if it was my response to the branching dialogue that did it but he suddenly turned menacing which only encouraged the thrashing I gave him :p

Either way, Susano's summoning seemed too convenient to me to be merely 'accidental' - I kept expecting an Ascian to be seen lurking in the shadows (alas there was none).

We do know that Primals can be sealed within objects (Bahamut was after all sealed within Dalamud, Odin within Urth's Font, and the Warring Triad within that ancient Allagan tech in Azys Lla, to say nothing of Primals being sealed under Silvertear Lake which were released when the Agrius crashed into it and exploded), so who is to say that Susano was not some ancient Primal from however many years ago that was sealed within those three treasures of the Kojin (remember also that the Kojin believed that 'kami' inhabited those objects, sounded a lot like aether to me), which reuniting the items together... broke the seal and released him.

Either way, there is definitely precedent for his unexpected summoning.

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Bahamut and the Warring Triad were physically constrained. That's quite different. Odin may be somewhat similar, but he also required a physical host. With Zantetsuken lying on the ground, Odin doesn't exist. Susano is a fully corporeal being. Also there wasn't a host of primals under Silvertear Lake. The battle just released a truck ton of available aether. Specifically mass amounts of crystallized aether which makes primal summoning easier/possible.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

I know big strong aetheric based mass is often a primal, but with Midgardsormr we know that isn't always so. Susano also doesn't seem to exhibit any sort of behaviors that we've seen in other primals.

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XIV has over 20 Primals that have been mentioned or seen and not all of them meet those criteria. The only similarities they share is that they require a lot of aether to form and maintain themselves, otherwise they're generally all different.

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He never tempers anyone

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Most of the Primals or Primal-like beings we've seen so far don't go out of their way to temper people. They can and they do, but it doesn't appear to be the go-to method for most of them. The only two I can think of that really made a big deal about it were Ifrit and Garuda, and from recollection Garuda intended to do it to get her hostages to summon Ifrit and Titan so she could kill them and steal their power rather than doing it just for extra followers.

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has no hunger for aether

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Aside from Ifrit and Garuda, I don't really remember off of the top of my head any of the other Primals really clamoring for more aether to boost their power.

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and was not summoned by a ritual.

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So far as we can tell, there's no specific "ritual" for the summoning of a Primal besides a fervent wish and an abundance of aether nearby. If people, even a single person, prays hard enough and there is enough aether in the area, the Primal appears. Gilgamesh accidentally summoning Enkidu is a good example.

Susano'o is an irregular type of primal much like Odin. the kojin found 2 pieces out of 3 that were parts of Susano'o 's being you notice how he says "we" instead of "i" meaning that the 3 pieces are separate entities its exactly how zantetsuken is a part of odin an becomes whole when someone picks it up. the kojin being no strangers to Kami and the divine could hear the 3 pieces of Susano'o longing to be whole and so they tasked you the player with reuniting them however they were unawares that the pieces would summon a god, even the red kojin were confused and had just assumed Susano'o was a kami of their treasure hoard. when Susano'o was first summoned we don't know all we do know is that Susano'o is definitely primal-like as he divined that we were enemies to the red kojin and for their part in protecting its sword and mirror Susano'o offered to fight on their behalf even tho we involuntarily summoned it.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

So far as we can tell, there's no specific "ritual" for the summoning of a Primal besides a fervent wish and an abundance of aether nearby. If people, even a single person, prays hard enough and there is enough aether in the area, the Primal appears. Gilgamesh accidentally summoning Enkidu is a good example.

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But there has to be something to it right? Otherwise the people mining the crystals would be summoning giant breakfast burritos or whatever whenever they were hungry. The Ascians certainly imply it's something you have to know how to do.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

But there has to be something to it right? Otherwise the people mining the crystals would be summoning giant breakfast burritos or whatever whenever they were hungry. The Ascians certainly imply it's something you have to know how to do.

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Maybe. Because they do make it a point several times to mention how the Ascians are "teaching" beast tribes and other individuals how to summon. However, it can't be a method that's too specific when there are multiple cases of accidental summoning.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

But there has to be something to it right?

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Nope, especially given how many cases of primals being summoned by accident, including Susano. As long as there's enough of an aetheric source (i.e. the three treasures) and an incentive for the primal to exist in the material plane (i.e. loyal followers, rival competition, fun, etc.), then TA DA, primal.

As for the Ascians on primals, I'd wager that all they would've taught the beast tribes is that aetheric crystals are the key and that their gods (to a beast tribe, their primal is usually their god) require persuasion to be brought out (hence the elements of worship).

Susanno is a primal, kojin believe in kami residing in all things, given that you walked into a treasure vault, with 3 highly regarded items, and prob surrounded by aether/crystals and a ton of things believed to house kami and the 3 treasures, all triggered Susanno to appear.

Yeah, he drops a mount, a TT card, AND expensive crafting materials on top of having a minion!

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Originally Posted by Xdark93

Susano'o is an irregular type of primal much like Odin. the kojin found 2 pieces out of 3 that were parts of Susano'o 's being you notice how he says "we" instead of "i" meaning that the 3 pieces are separate entities its exactly how zantetsuken is a part of odin an becomes whole when someone picks it up. the kojin being no strangers to Kami and the divine could hear the 3 pieces of Susano'o longing to be whole and so they tasked you the player with reuniting them however they were unawares that the pieces would summon a god, even the red kojin were confused and had just assumed Susano'o was a kami of their treasure hoard. when Susano'o was first summoned we don't know all we do know is that Susano'o is definitely primal-like as he divined that we were enemies to the red kojin and for their part in protecting its sword and mirror Susano'o offered to fight on their behalf even tho we involuntarily summoned it.

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The way I see it, the kojin still summoned Susano. I think a long time ago the kojin created the idea that the three pieces belonged together. Pouring their prayer into it, just like they do to all their treasures since their gods live in every beautiful object before them. When the blue and red seperated the blue took a single piece with them. This catalyzed their beliefs. Now the red kojin and blue kojin believe that the three objects long to be reunited, their belief in the kamis within the pieces grow more fervent than their standard belief of their gods... time passed. Each piece bursting with aether. The blue filled one. The red filled two.

The ritual wasn't necessarily having all three pieces reunited. It was having all three peices united under the distraught gaze of a kojin. If the kojin never saw the three pieces returned together, Susano, I doubt would have manifested.

What would define a primal to me is just a summon with a lot of aetheral power, most often from crystal, and then followers, tho the later doesn't apply for all, Odin and mostly Susano since his appearance was so short we don't even know if it's one of the Koji's deity, actually I think it wasn't at first but since it came from their treasure I believe they insta worshiped him.