My opinion on Red Mage so far

Although he is a lot of fun to play my 52 Summoner ilvl 115 takes down foes a little faster and is not even half as squishy because of my pet as my 53 Red Mage ilvl 120. Even my 52 Scholar ilv 100 although taking much longer to kill things has greater survivability. Infact my Scholar hasn't died in like forever. The Red Mage loses a lot of health anytime anything gets close to it. And I am pretty sure I am playing the Red Mage correctly altering Jolt with whatever spell I want to cast to take advantage of dual cast..building up white and black mana to about 80 then using all the melee abilities. If your fighting 2 foes close forget it with a Red Mage once you get into Heavensward unless you are constantly moving around because the enemies special attacks will take 1/4 of your health with 1 hit ( about 1500 dmg ). I do enjoy the combat with the Red Mage though. I have 25 -35 hours time with the red mage already I think.

everything changes by the time you hit 70. at 60 summoner was in a good spot, its later mechanics that didnt really work in their favor

I actually find RDM one of the best DPS classes to play solo. Their healing is incredibly powerful since it is increased by intelect instead of piety like the summoner's heal. The summoner's pet is a great tank for normal mobs, but when you start fighting harder enemies (i.e. solo old primals) or larger pulls, then their healthpool quickly vanishes and you don't really have an efficient way of keeping them alive any more. It looks like you haven't unlocked vercure yet, so I'd hold off passing judgement on the class' durability until you do.

As for the damage, both red mage and summoner are very close atm in groups. Solo fights should actually favor the red mage since lots of summoner damage either takes a long time to act (DoTs), or takes a long time to build up (Bahamut, dreadwyrm), while red mage is far more immediate and hence better suited for short fights. If you are seeing a very large difference, perhaps you just aren't as used to the class as you are with the summoner. I noticed that you didn't mention using the verstone/fire procs, so if you aren't using those properly it would explain why your damage is a bit low.

Yes I use those procs. I even use the ability that make them trigger all the time every time it cools down. I also use Fleche and all the other abilities available. The Red Mage is just not as good as a Summoner at low 50s levels. You have no way to keep multiple enemies off of you and no way to heal yourself. Summoner has both of these with a pet who gets aggro and a heal spell. One enemy you can kill fast enough. 2 you better do a lot of running around and trying to avoid hits on yourself. Because if you just stand toe to toe with them you will die every time. Plus with the RedMage you can't run from fight to fight because they often have 1/2 to 2/3 health after a fight. You have to pause to let your health return to full. Most of the time my Summoner takes no damage at all since my pet pulls all the aggro. I imagine it gets better like you say after you get a heal spell. Still however when you first start playing the class at 50. RDM is defintelly handicapped in comparison to some other classes IMO.

You actually get your heal at 54 (which is, your next level).

From there your survivability skyrockets. Dualcasting vercure is actually one of the main thing that makes RDM supreme at soloing contents.. you will eventually find yourself playing like a lesser WHT/AST but with much greater dps in terms of soloing. (Won't compare with SCH though.. when I was on my SCH I just let Eos doing all the heals, lol).

I see you're comparing classes at level 50, to fight monsters in the wild. Yes SMN has the best DPS solo survivability.

But please compare things that matter before issuing an overall judgement of a class. Things that matter being : mono target boss at level 70 with a tank to deal with hits.

And trust me if SMN is a little better on a dummy (if you play it well), only the best ones out rank red mages in actual fights and raids. If you're just good, average, or not so good, red mage is superior (you achieve higher DPS with it without mastery than you can achieve with a SMN you don't master).

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Originally Posted by ArcanoJones

You have no way to keep multiple enemies off of you

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Aye ya do. While it's useless in dungeons, 'cause all CC is, ya get an AoE bind in Tether from tha start.

Not ta mention Disengage an' Break. Red Mages ain't gonna kite like a bard, but ya definitely have tha tools ta get away, especially since ya can dualcast with 'em.

Yar, summoner gets 'em too. Ye'll never be survivable as one before 54, but yer far from hopeless.

See, the thing here is that SMN was created to have its full moveset by lvl 50 (with SB reworked to have its full moveset at 60 then some traits and Demi-Bahamut at 70), RDM was built to have its full moveset at 70, so you can't really compare it to any class below 60. As a RDM main I have a LOT of survivability (I've been soloing Shiva Ex for desynth fodder and WT some times) and utility with Vercure and Verraise. Why do open world content (especially soloing said content instead of a FATE party or something), I'll never understand, but go in a dungeon as a RDM and you'll love the intuitive and fast chaincasting that just flows really well with your oGCDs and melee combo.

Also, very few things can compete with a Scholar for open world survivability (probably only a PLD or WAR), it's not even funny how broken SCH was (haven't played it since SB, can't say if it still is)

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Originally Posted by D_C

Aye ya do. While it's useless in dungeons, 'cause all CC is, ya get an AoE bind in Tether from tha start.

Not ta mention Disengage an' Break. Red Mages ain't gonna kite like a bard, but ya definitely have tha tools ta get away, especially since ya can dualcast with 'em.

Yar, summoner gets 'em too. Ye'll never be survivable as one before 54, but yer far from hopeless.

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Off topic a bit here, but I adore this speak coming from this Lala. My new favorite Lala ^_^

Now then, on topic:

Once you earn Vercure, you'll see you survivability skyrocket. Combined with a nice simple rotation for a caster and wonderful mobility, it's one of the best jobs to solo things on. I know I have a blast soloing most Ex Primal like Shiva, Leviathan and the like.

I do wanna try PoTD solo one day when I can.

My opinion on RDM:

Good-
You guys have awesome burst and epic glamour.

Bad-
You stand out in EBF most of the fight. Are your abilities rng based?

Question-
Do you guys prefer Balance, Arrow, or Spear?

You should never give opinion or even judge a job that is not even 70 yet

Just like samurai they are totally out of place before 70

Once they hit 62 their game play changed alot and once they hit 68 and 70 it's a whole different ball game

same with all job

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Originally Posted by Karshan

And trust me if SMN is a little better on a dummy (if you play it well), only the best ones out rank red mages in actual fights and raids. If you're just good, average, or not so good, red mage is superior (you achieve higher DPS with it without mastery than you can achieve with a SMN you don't master).

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No. With Patch 4.06, RDM and SMN are neck and neck for V1s and V2s, and SMN significantly outparses RDM for V3s and V4s. Just check fflogs across the different percentiles.

In fact, just like in ARR and HW, SMN tends to perform better during multi-target, burst-window and heavy movement fights, not dummies.

Not trying to downplay RDM as its utility is unquestionable. I use RDM for V1s and V2s, and SMN for the other two.

I always laugh at people who think theyre some amazing insightful reviewer. Why should anyone care what you think of a class unless it's a broken class that the devs need feed on?

Also youre wrong so there is that, too.

Well then if you don't care why did you read my comments Nhisso. These forums are filled with hundreds if not thousands of peoples opinions on everything including class perfomance. That is what they are here for. Discussion about the game. Seems like your in the wrong place if your not here to hear peoples opinions. The reason a person posts an opinion is to hear debate on something that they are interested in. There are several posts here that are very helpful to me as I go forward with my Red Mage. And I appreciate that they took the time to let me know that the things I have noticed will correct themselves as I gain more abilities. Thank you everybody for your input.

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Originally Posted by Anienai

Bad-
You stand out in EBF most of the fight. Are your abilities rng based?

Question-
Do you guys prefer Balance, Arrow, or Spear?

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Yes, there's a 50% chance a few of our skills proc depending on the spell we used last, plus the White and Black Mana gauge for our Enchanted melee skills, they can be "cheated" with Acceleration and Manafication, though.

And I'm weird and like speed but all 3 can be useful, even arrow at the right time for building B/W Mana. Crit is nice since we do 2 spells in one GCD, plus our oGCDs which have a short cooldown as is; also I'n not one of the theorycrafters or meta RDMs so take this with a grain of salt :p Also, no one says no to a Balance!

I've started leveling RDM myself and as my first caster, I'm loving it. I was going to go with BLM, but playing a rooted turret has never been my favored playstyle (though I still plan on leveling him at some point), so the somewhat more mobile RDM is what I chose to start with.

Its really a lot of fun when you get a chain of procs and keep the rotation going, throwing in your cool down when up, and then dancing in to lay out a combo with your sword. Launching two spells quickly back to back also just feels fun and offers a faster gameplay style that I prefer to long cast times. Should be even more fun with Verholy and Verflare (though I'm still not sure if those should be cast while in melee or after you jump back out).

Eh i tank with my Red Mage many of times, sure i may not last 2 minutes but yeah ... :)
Red Mage has many advantages over blm, both Utility and movement and it is a much simpler job (no timers involved for up keep)
I actually love the simplicity as it gives me a break from playing blm

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Should be even more fun with Verholy and Verflare (though I'm still not sure if those should be cast while in melee or after you jump back out).

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It should be used after Displacement (backflip) as it is your finisher. There are some fights though that you really have no choice as you cannot backflip

I was bored by Rdm, tbh.
Sure, it was fun at first cause it's different, but after leveling it up 20 levels, it's still the same as with 50. You keep doing the same thing at max lvl than while leveling up. It got old for me incredibly fast.
Every time I got a shiny new skill I was disappointed cause they're basically just up-scales of what you already had. Even the lv70 skills, which add a new dimension to most jobs, just adds an additional hit to the rotation.

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Originally Posted by Maero

It should be used after Displacement (backflip) as it is your finisher. There are some fights though that you really have no choice as you cannot backflip

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Thanks, I thought that might be the case. Right now I jump in, use the combo, finish with Contre Sixte and jump back out, so I'll just be tacking the new abilities on at the end. 13 more levels until I get them, though. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

I was bored by Rdm, tbh.
Sure, it was fun at first cause it's different, but after leveling it up 20 levels, it's still the same as with 50. You keep doing the same thing at max lvl than while leveling up. It got old for me incredibly fast.
Every time I got a shiny new skill I was disappointed cause they're basically just up-scales of what you already had. Even the lv70 skills, which add a new dimension to most jobs, just adds an additional hit to the rotation.

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That's like every job except BLM, SMN and PLD.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

That's like every job except BLM, SMN and PLD.

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That's just your opinion.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

That's like every job except BLM, SMN and PLD.

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Actually there's a very good point to be made that RDM doesn't develop that much in terms of rotation from start to finish and really only gains off-gcd abilities that help enhance that same rotation. Even Verflare and Verholy are given at different levels with one being locked behind the last job quest despite them both essentially being interchangable. By comparison there is no class that changes that little from lv50 to 70 due to most jobs unlocking a whole new form of energy management at ~lv60.

Well, from what I've seen, most RDM unlocks from 50-70 are either utility skills (Vercure, Verraise), damage buffs, or additions to the melee combo. But to be fair, there's a lot less levels to gain compared to other classes so there's less chance to really change the game play much.

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Originally Posted by popotaro

That's just your opinion.

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Thank you for your insight.

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

Actually there's a very good point to be made that RDM doesn't develop that much in terms of rotation from start to finish and really only gains off-gcd abilities that help enhance that same rotation.

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That is true that they got less than everybody else but they get Contre Sixte and Impact to add more to the rotation and then utilities like Verraise and Vercure so it only gaining rotation enhancements isn't exactly true.
Verflare and Verholy however, I am not sure why both are gained at separate levels. SMN and BRD get two new skills at the same levels (even though the DoTs are just upgrades) and it's quite unfair that RDM's level 68 skill slot is wasted for something that works interchangeably like the level 70 one.