Any other palis have this issue

Just a quick post on asking for some tips on what to do. So I think Im playing more 3.0 pali than 4.0 pali but its not on purpose. So when Im playing pali the one thing I know on this tank is that I can heal myself in comparison to the other two tanks. So I find myself using more clemecy's than I do hs just because I dont have that trust in players that maybe i should. If Im at 25 percent health Im healing myself I just dont feel comfortable enough to just sit at 25 percent health and rely on my healer.

So this is certainly effecting my dps Im sure any major tank buster Im clemency myself twice because I just dont like to feel vulnerable like that. Like for example in v1s Requiescat could be off cool down but instead of using it after twin bolts I will clemecy myself because I just dont have that trust. Especially after he does a roar and the other move that brings ur health to like 10 percent , because I know if I die even tho its not my fault people will blame it on me. So any thoughts on this anyone else find themselves doing something similar.

Healing is the healers job. Unless shit is really going down there should be no need to clemency. All of the healers have an oh shit heal. Unless youre healer is the worst healer on the planet (they do exist) you shouldn't worry about your health.

As for it affecting your dps, it probably is. You are doing content where dps will matter. but that same content does require a good healer. if you can't trust your healer, the issue isn't just you. So if you die, unless youre specifically standing in something that will kill you, its not your fault. your healer should know when to heal you, when to keep you topped, and when you can hover at 25% health. Your clemency is a great back up, but should never be relied upon imo over relying on your healer.

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Originally Posted by silverlunarfox

Healing is

As for it affecting your dps, it probably is. You are doing content where dps will matter. but that same content does require a good healer. if you can't trust your healer, the issue isn't just you. So if you die, unless youre specifically standing in something that will kill you, its not your fault. your healer should know when to heal you, when to keep you topped, and when you can hover at 25% health. Your clemency is a great back up, but should never be relied upon imo over relying on your healer.

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i do most of my content solo in df so I dont know any of the healers I run stuff with , so its just really difficult to have such trust when I have such an amazing heal at my disposal. And I just hate feeling Like I let the group down even if its not my fault, cant tell you have many tanks ive seen die to twin bolt.

Depends largely in who your playing with I think. If I know the healers I can be sitting at 10% hp and not bat an eyelid. At the same time if i am the healer i can often leave the tank at 10% hp and not worry about it. No big hits coming in the next 10 seconds long as he can take a couple of auto attacks. I got time to refresh my dots.

Recently seems I don't even need to worry about crits these days its like bosses have stopped doing them. Which makes the incoming damage even more predictable.

If a df group or something though at 20% hp I'd probably be looking at hallowed ground and seeing if it's off cool down and popping it. Followed by clemancy spam if I'm still not getting heals.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Depends largely in who your playing with I think. If I know the healers I can be sitting at 10% hp and not bat an eyelid. At the same time if i am the healer i can often leave the tank at 10% hp and not worry about it. No big hits coming in the next 10 seconds long as he can take a couple of auto attacks. I got time to refresh my dots.

Recently seems I don't even need to worry about crits these days its like bosses have stopped doing them. Which makes the incoming damage even more predictable.

If a df group or something though at 20% hp I'd probably be looking at hallowed ground and seeing if it's off cool down and popping it. Followed by clemancy spam if I'm still not getting heals.

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I've noticed this too with heals. Though sometimes they do still happen which ends up both making the tank and healer crap their pants XP but theyre still survivable.

As for your tank advice, thats typically what I do. If the healer doesnt respond in that, clemency is more of a go to throughout the fight.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

i do most of my content solo in df so I dont know any of the healers I run stuff with , so its just really difficult to have such trust when I have such an amazing heal at my disposal. And I just hate feeling Like I let the group down even if its not my fault, cant tell you have many tanks ive seen die to twin bolt.

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Random healers are often a crapshoot in what you will get. I've totally been in your shoes, but usually the first few minutes of whatever the run is will generally give a good feel of where your healer is at. If you feel they are less than good, by all means hover over clemency, but you wont know just how bad they are unless you give them the chance to let you die. Or like my friend likes to do, leave me at like 200 hp XP

If the healer is actually capable of DPS'ing (some never seem to), then with a big pack I'll use clemency as well. For the sole reason healer AoE > my AoE. Sure I loose alittle personal DPS, but the group gains more then the other way around.

Gotta trust the healer. I always ask at the beginning of a run if I can pull big or if they are comfortable with it. Based on the response, I know what to expect.

It's fine in dungeons, but doing this in raids is giving healers a false sense of security, making them feel as though they don't need to heal you as much as they actually should. Even if you end up dying (unless you were at full HP), these deaths will let them know they need to make some adjustments. It's part of their min-maxing the amount of heals they do with the DPS they put out.

Think of it like this - when you don't know the fight, you start off being in tank stance way more than you probably should. As you improve, you learn when you can and cannot get away with not being in tank stance, and when to best use your cooldowns. Sometimes you might die because you tried some risky shit, but at least you'll learn from that, so that next time you're either ready with a cooldown or tank stance. Healers have this learning process too - they'll usually start off by overhealing, and then slowly reduce this the more they learn about the fight. By using a strong heal like Clemency, you sorta throw them off from this, and then when another tank who doesn't use Clemency comes along, they might get confused. Of course, if the healer already knows the fight, it won't matter. Then again, if the healer knows the fight, you won't have to bother with Clemency.

So save Clemency for big pulls in dungeons, and for emergency situations like extended Apanda tanking scenarios. It's like Warriors and Inner Beast - you technically don't need it but it's there when things get ugly.

Clemency should be casted on your cotank, not on yourself...., and when 1 healer is down and other one has to aoe heal the group, you clemency that healer not yourself.

You'd be surprised at how important you are to the healer, especially if there are two of them. I can honestly say that I am more concerned with the DPS killing the enemy than the healer keeping my health at 100%.

Just understand, that a huge number of healers know how to recover your lost HP, especially if your health dips very low. Your timing of Clemency and their strong/burst heals will upset the healer because they wasted, say, a Benediction they had planned to mix in with their rotation.

But seriously, trust your healer(s).

Nothing wrong with saving yourself. Healers can screw up too. Clemency is powerful and it can save the day in an emergency. That being said, you should always give your healers a chance and not just assume right off the bat that they suck. Talk to people, ask them what the plan is. Ask them if you should use clemency often.

Putting out good damage has to do with factoring in as many things as possible to manipulate your simple rotation around the mechanics and the party. Your healer is a factor to consider, and if you need to heal yourself do it, but keep in mind most tanks go through the entire raid without ever hitting Clemency without dying (and some die without hitting it when it could have saved their life).

I've never heard of a PLD (I'm a PLD btw) getting crap for not using Clemency. If you get yelled at for dying then either you didn't buff, you stood in something you shouldn't have, or they're out to blame someone. That last reason is not a reasonable excuse to nerf yourself, imo

Trust your healers until they give you a reason not to. If a properly mitigated tank buster leaves you at 25%, dying after means the healer messed up, not you. Most healers want to keep you alive even more than you want to keep you alive, because they are usually the first recipients of flack when the tank dies. If the healer messes up, clemency next time, but showing someone that you don't trust them to do their job before they've had a chance to do it is a recipe for conflict.

Also take the phrase "It wasn't my fault" from your vocabulary and replace it with "Was there anything else I could have done?". If the answer is yes, you know what to do next time. If it's no, you've done your job, let other people figure out theirs. If it's I don't know, ask google for help. Self-pity is poison to improvement, repellent to some that may have tried to help, and will hold you back more than anything another player could ever say.

I tend to use clemency when a healer or both healers die. You can save yourself from a wipe by having a RDM raise the healers while a PLD OT keeps the MT topped off.

The only times you should Clemency is if healers are down or if someone could die from a hit(esp healer) and both healers are busy/dead. Optimally you should not be using it at all as every Clemency used is a lost Holy Spirit, as well as the gcd cost and interruption of combos.

Can you play your job unoptimally? Yes, you can, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend that. Bad habits die hard and all.

It is the healers' job to heal. By spending several GCDs healing yourself you are giving a direct vote of distrust towards your healers for doing their basic job. Also in case of Charybdis+Roar; even if you survive the mechanic due to healing yourself, other people are likely to die due to there not being enough healing, and it's very likely the healers as well. So you can just honestly refrain from doing Clemencies with aoe follow-up mechanics and instead make sure you are in range for heals (cure III especially).

Using a Clemency to save yourself when the healers are dead/struggling. Yeah that's reasonable.

The only time I ever clemency is when I'm off tanking and need a heal to pop Divine Veil. Other than that, I'm in dps mode all the way.

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Originally Posted by ShaneDawn

Can you play your job unoptimally? Yes, you can, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend that. Bad habits die hard and all.

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In v1s its a time when things are winding down that, he will do a twin bolts right after now I been poping hg , was doing clemency. Its just wit the nature of pugs knowing that a wipe or two equals disband it just doesnt seem like you have the luxury to just put all your trust in a healer.

Its tons of times where its helped me where the healer just wasnt ready for the attack, on twin bolts, in laksami extreme when the first set it vril comes out she does pull of light if you are standing on the vril line and get hit by pull of light at the same time you can consider yourself dead.

In susano not being toped off for storm spliter and not having the best cool downs available atm will kill you, its just really harder to put that trust in people I dont know especially with how the pf is, one wipe can just lead to a disband and regroup. So sometimes it almost seems worth it to trust yourself more than the healer but Im tryin to get better at it.