RDM BiS?

I've been searching for which stat is the most important but internet is splitted between DH and CH, what's everyone opinion about it?

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Originally Posted by Arutan

I've been searching for which stat is the most important but internet is splitted between DH and CH, what's everyone opinion about it?

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DH > Critical > Spell Speed

It is good to at least get 1300 spell speed though.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It is good to at least get 1300 spell speed though.

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Like you have a choice in not having insane amounts of SpS from ur gear options.

What's the mindset behind wanting 1300 spell speed when the stat has zero benefit for our biggest amount of burst damage? The stat is completely wasted on our Melee combo. Stat priority should be DH -> Det -> Crit -> SpS. This will shift as higher tiers of gear become available and will likely end up with Crit -> Det -> DH -> SpS. Not likely viable until 2700+ crit is obtained though.

DH + Crit < 3500 = Prioritize DH.
DH + Crit > 3500 = Prioritize Crit.


This Bis set was made by the eggheads over at reddit: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/11LEB

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Originally Posted by Eliniell

What's the mindset behind wanting 1300 spell speed when the stat has zero benefit for our biggest amount of burst damage? The stat is completely wasted on our Melee combo. Stat priority should be DH -> Det -> Crit -> SpS. This will shift as higher tiers of gear become available and will likely end up with Crit -> Det -> DH -> SpS. Not likely viable until 2700+ crit is obtained though.

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That's only half true, it doesn't affect the melee combo itself, but with more and more spell speed you'd get to your melee combo faster, although I don't see it having a big enough impact until we can garner enough spell speed to reduce our short cast spells to around 1.7 seconds or so.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

DH + Crit < 3500 = Prioritize DH.
DH + Crit > 3500 = Prioritize Crit.


This Bis set was made by the eggheads over at reddit: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/11LEB

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Seems broken

Spell Speed is not the main stats, we are not blm were that is the number one, not sure why you guys seem to want to prioritize that, lol
DH>Crit>Det is of much better value

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Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

That's only half true, it doesn't affect the melee combo itself, but with more and more spell speed you'd get to your melee combo faster, although I don't see it having a big enough impact until we can garner enough spell speed to reduce our short cast spells to around 1.7 seconds or so.

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Except it makes you either waste manification or makes you wait to use it.
Currently, Im using what ever gear I can get, until I have the ability to pick and choose which gear pieces I can get.
Which has pretty much left me with pure spell speed.
Im almost always somewhere around 60/60 or 70/70 when manification is ready.
which now means i need to waste multiple GCDs in either direction.
Those GCDs would have not been wasted if I was between 40-50 like I used to be, when I didnt have so much spell speed.
And if I had crit/DH/DET instead, I would be doing more dps.

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Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

That's only half true, it doesn't affect the melee combo itself, but with more and more spell speed you'd get to your melee combo faster, although I don't see it having a big enough impact until we can garner enough spell speed to reduce our short cast spells to around 1.7 seconds or so.

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It's not just the melee combo SS isn't benefiting us on. It also doesn't affect any of our 4 OGCD abilities that do damage (with Fleche and Contre Sixte being the key ones here, of course).

Exactly what Claire said. Did you guys not read what i had posted? lol
You will get more damage out of crit and DH over spell speed (which is main blm stat over anything else), multiple players have done testing

Also not sure how precise this is but credit to PrinceMarthX @ Gamefaqs

Every ~42 Direct Hit increases direct hit chance by 1%. It has a base chance of 0%. Direct hit increases damage by 25%
Every ~108 Crtiical Hit increases critical hit chance by 1%. It has a base chance of 5%. Critical hit increases damage by 25% + 1% for every 108 crit.
Every ~190 Determination increases damage by 1%. Does not increase auto attack damage.

This means that:
1000 direct hit gives a 23% direct hit chance.
1000 critical hit gives a 14% critical hit chance and 34% crit damage
1000 determination gives a 5% damage increase.

You direct hit almost twice as often as critical hit and crit is only 9% more damage than it.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Stats

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Judging what you're saying I edited my first BiS idea and it would look like this:
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/12AJL
47.3% DH
18% CH

Almost half my hit are DH

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Originally Posted by Maero

Every ~42 Direct Hit increases direct hit chance by 1%. It has a base chance of 0%. Direct hit increases damage by 25%
Every ~108 Crtiical Hit increases critical hit chance by 1%. It has a base chance of 5%. Critical hit increases damage by 25% + 1% for every 108 crit.
Every ~190 Determination increases damage by 1%. Does not increase auto attack damage.

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wat, no

39.09 DH is 1% chance for 25% more damage. Does not apply to healing spells/abilities.
108.5 Crit is 1% increased crit chance and crit damage, starting at 5% and 40% respectively.
166.67 Det is 1% increased all damage (and healing.) And yes, it includes autoattacks.

Oh my god I was not arguing for spell speed, I'm just saying it doesn't do nothing. I didn't say anywhere that spell speed was better than the other stats, I simply said it doesn't have nothing to do with our melee combo. Do not put words into my mouth please. No wonder we have a backflip ability, we're so good at jumping... to conclusions.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

wat, no

39.09 DH is 1% chance for 25% more damage. Does not apply to healing spells/abilities.
108.5 Crit is 1% increased crit chance and crit damage, starting at 5% and 40% respectively.
166.67 Det is 1% increased all damage (and healing.) And yes, it includes autoattacks.

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Oh then if that's the case with my BiS 1/2 hit is a DH which mean half of my hit are damage increased by 25%, det is kinda worthless there. With 1666.7 det that would make 10% damage increase but technically with 50% DH all my hit can be considered 12.5% damage increased.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Oh then if that's the case with my BiS 1/2 hit is a DH which mean half of my hit are damage increased by 25%, det is kinda worthless there. With 1666.7 det that would make 10% damage increase but technically with 50% DH all my hit can be considered 12.5% damage increased.

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Yeah, but wouldn't the 10% increased base damage still have a chance to dHit / crit / dCrit? I think it's less about stacking a stat at the expense of others and more about keeping stats relatively close together with a preferred stat that's above the rest.

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Originally Posted by Lygas

Yeah, but wouldn't the 10% increased base damage still have a chance to dHit / crit / dCrit? I think it's less about stacking a stat at the expense of others and more about keeping stats relatively close together with a preferred stat that's above the rest.

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This guy's got the right idea. Right now, unless you're a Bard (and possibly monk, the bonus chakra generation is usually grossly overestimated), DH is that preferred stat of those 3 secondaries. The wildcard secondary is Speed, which varies from incredibly strong (BLM's best stat) to incredibly weak (NIN's worst, by far.)

In a vacuum, DH is better than Det. However, once you hit a certain DH threshold, Det will be better. But then Crit gets better once you have more DH and Det. That is, until you hit a certain Det threshold, then DH... well yeah, those 3 stats go back and forth jockeying for first place. We're already at a point, in the first raid tier, where stacking DH exclusively won't result in the highest possible DPS -- though stacking DH exclusively is also impossible so it's a moot point.

Think about it like this: what's better, a 30% damage increase, or 15, 10, and 5% damage increases?
1000 dps * 1.3 = 1300 dps.
1000 dps * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.05 = 1328 dps.

The weird thinig is that Crit has accelerating returns, which is something no other stat has. It's why Crit was so god-tier at the end of HW. However, we're not at a point yet where Crit's accelerating returns are strong enough to overpower the other stats in terms of raw contribution. Given how slow secondary stats are scaling up from 300-340, we may not reach the point this expansion where it's "CRIT OR GTFO" like we did in HW.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Except it makes you either waste manification or makes you wait to use it.
Currently, Im using what ever gear I can get, until I have the ability to pick and choose which gear pieces I can get.
Which has pretty much left me with pure spell speed.
Im almost always somewhere around 60/60 or 70/70 when manification is ready.
which now means i need to waste multiple GCDs in either direction.
Those GCDs would have not been wasted if I was between 40-50 like I used to be, when I didnt have so much spell speed.
And if I had crit/DH/DET instead, I would be doing more dps.

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Oh my god I know, the amount of spell speed on the 340 gear i've been getting is causing me physical pain

As i stated before posting what the person on gamefaqs did (which i did not say i agreed with or did't, lol) , DH>Crit>
Spell Speed at this point is not even in the equation for Red Mage...
Blm it is the priority stat
Determination may very well even be better then SS for Red mage

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Originally Posted by Maero

As i stated before posting what the person on gamefaqs did (which i did not say i agreed with or did't, lol) , DH>Crit>
Spell Speed at this point is not even in the equation for Red Mage...
Blm it is the priority stat
Determination may very well even be better then SS for Red mage

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Nobody is arguing for spell speed, i don't know why you posted this.

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Originally Posted by Lygas

Yeah, but wouldn't the 10% increased base damage still have a chance to dHit / crit / dCrit? I think it's less about stacking a stat at the expense of others and more about keeping stats relatively close together with a preferred stat that's above the rest.

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It would crit, but less, so that may be equivalent. Doing more damage but less crit, or doing less damages but more crit. At the end if you sum both option i think it's kinda equal.

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Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

Nobody is arguing for spell speed, i don't know why you posted this.

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Velhart posted spell speed as one of the stats and i have seen other posts about some seeming to think SS is of value, when the value isn't really
I did not say anyone was arguing now did i? SS Just does not really belong on RM this point in time, other stats even determination is of better value
People need to be informed, i mean players can do what they want mind you

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Originally Posted by Maero

Velhart posted spell speed as one of the stats and i have seen other posts about some seeming to think SS is of value, when the value isn't really
I did not say anyone was arguing now did i? SS Just does not really belong on RM this point in time, other stats even determination is of better value
People need to be informed, i mean players can do what they want mind you

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I figured people would already have read the earlier post you said about it, although it literally just dawned on me that some people might skip to the end to ask their own question rather than scanning pages for the answer already previously posted. And in any case, my point about spell speed is that it's not entirely useless as some believe, although you'd have to give up a huge amount of the other stats (which would be worse than any benefit it could give) in order for it to gain a somewhat impactful benefit.

Also @ClairePendragon I'm more talking about nearly Arrow levels of spell speed, i'm only at like 1100 SpS and i'm still getting to the 60/60, 70/70 manafication problem.

I went with DH>CRIT>DET until we know more what stat weights be like

Stat weights are already known and they are dynamic.
As rule of thumb:
If DH + Crit < 3500 : go for DH
If DH + Crit > 3500 : go for Crit

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Originally Posted by PrismaticDaybreak

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Thank you for understanding, lol
Part of the issue is also that the gear is shared among casters. Some of it is more geared towards blm and some Red Mage. I play both blm and Red and it is a struggle, almost need 2 seperate gear sets. And some of the weapons are also of issue, high SS on a Red Mage weapon and yet none on blm. I seriously question their decisions

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Originally Posted by TelosNox

Stat weights are already known and they are dynamic.
As rule of thumb:
If DH + Crit < 3500 : go for DH
If DH + Crit > 3500 : go for Crit

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Source? I havn't seen any public numbers other than peoples theorys or guesses

Would like the source too

While SpS isnt the best option fo RDM, Ive been debating on a "new way to look at SpS".
Its still the worst, but a way to make it not feel like ist a waste, is to actually use manification when its up, even if you're 50/50 or 60/60.
The reasoning behind this is that you were going to use manification roughly the same time every fight, with, or w/o SpS.
So instead of looking at it as wasted mana, Ill look at it as having landed 1+ GCD attacks before I use manification.
This is probably the only way I can justify it in my head, until I get more options in gear lol.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

I've been searching for which stat is the most important but internet is splitted between DH and CH, what's everyone opinion about it?

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Direct > Crit > Spell speed

It seems that beyond 1.7k for both DH & Crit proc more often, but the gear sets................got to pick one and I mostly choose direct hit. Spell speed? Their cast time on most spells are already short and they don't have DoT spells so I don't get the reason for high spell speed to tell you the truth.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Would like the source too

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I think this is the source https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...xyivk/htmlview

Well i mean the person did the work but i do not think this is actual stat weights yet.
Myself i have been favouring DH over crit but even before seeing that sheet i wanted to re-meld a few pieces with higher crit
Do what you feel i guess is were we are at now? Though does Ariyala not use Dervy for stat weights? So this should mean they are out.
Have noticed some things have no added up 100% at times