What do you think the next tank job will be? I am curious what the next tank job will be since I heard samurai was a tank job back in FFXI.
Sorry if there was already a thread like this I couldn't find it.
Next Tank Job?
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07-26-2017, 06:33 PMKyrphNext Tank Job?
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07-26-2017, 11:06 PMKalocin
Gist summary of the last one was that no one wants another job because they can't balance the 3 they have lol. I'm not sure what the next one will be but I'ma throw the dice toward a hammer wielder, either magitek or the Viking job. No basis other than Grynewaht having a hammer.
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07-26-2017, 11:07 PMshao32
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07-27-2017, 08:35 AMKyrphThank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by shao32
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07-27-2017, 12:05 PMkoroko220
Samurai also wasn't a tank job, SE intended it to be but it played better as a DD and SE accepted that and stated giving them lots of DD gear after a while.
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07-29-2017, 07:05 PMJustuas
Samurai wasn't and still isn't a tank job in FFXI. A magical tank, Rune Fencer, is and I'd say it's a good candidate for next tank.
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07-30-2017, 06:38 AMSeku
Considering that Samurai has and still has seigan along with third eye, access to heavy armor with -% damage taken on it, counter attacks, samurai was and still is a tank in FF11. And should have been a tank in 14, with DPS options to mimic it's 11 counter part. Other wise they normally served as good back up tanks while maintaining DPS and prior to the abyssa launch took on a good deal of end game bosses where TP feeding was not a issue.
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07-30-2017, 06:51 AMJhett_Magnum
Judge or a Magitek BLU.
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07-30-2017, 09:23 AMMercureXI
Dancer would be great ... Saber Dance and Fan Dance for DPS/Tank stance would fit perfectly ...
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07-30-2017, 11:41 AMLannybaby
My hope is for a gunblade user.
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07-30-2017, 03:58 PMKyrphI am really hoping for this as well!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lannybaby
That would be really interesting. I would love to see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MercureXI
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07-30-2017, 07:50 PMJustuasThird eye doesn't absorb magic, and also the most problematic attacks are aoe which ignore third eye. Edit. Third eye doesn't absorb aoe magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Actually no. Only war, pld and drk have access to non-job specific heavy armor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Just like every other job have access to -dt gear. However, only pld and run have the best -dt gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Can't counter magic or aoe attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Oh please, find me a tank samurai.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
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08-01-2017, 01:41 AMSynestra
Before wanting a next tank job how about we get these 3 existing ones fixed/balanced first? there are still some issues so adding 4th tank on the mix would probably do more harm than good.
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08-01-2017, 01:50 AMKyrphYeah I am hoping WAR and DRK will get some buffs to be closer to PLD but it is still fun to think about what could be the next job. Besides hard modes, all three tanks can clear content pretty easily so from a casual standpoint it wouldn't be so bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synestra
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08-01-2017, 09:12 AMJandorIt's about 2 years till the next expansion, how about they do both balancing and a new tank? Not like there isn't plenty of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synestra
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08-01-2017, 01:40 PMJhett_MagnumHe did kiiiiiinnndaaaa soortaa said that there's an atma pre-nerf chance we could get something mid expansion. I don't think they will, but there is that 0.0000005% chanceQuote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
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08-01-2017, 02:47 PMFallenWingsThe DPS weren't exactly balanced in 3.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synestra
Yet here we are. -
08-02-2017, 03:58 AMPhoeniciaWell, if anything, having a 4th tank will give SE easier options to balance things by building synergy in tank pairs instead of worrying too much about giving the same tools to 3. But it's SE's game, not mine and luckily, I'm no game dev. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
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08-02-2017, 04:03 AMAlistaire
Dancer, because getting a dps with potent healing abilities would be broken.
*cough* -
08-02-2017, 04:37 AMShadowblind
Kinda want something like a Shadowmancer, but suited for a tank . . . like a class whose tank stance says something like "Distorts space to avoid 20% of oncoming damage" or whatever. A class that seems like an ethereal tank that uses shadow manipulation to avoid damage and "scare" enemies into keeping their aggro.
Something other than another bulky knight-lookin' thing. -
08-02-2017, 04:52 AMSekuPLD doesn't absorb magic either, nor is it a magic tank by default. AoE attacks were problematic for everyone not just tanks, which is why a lot of groups had people sub ninja for shadow and why a lot of HMN groups only took Ranged DPS . Third Eye however does absorb large hits, multi attack weapon skills, and auto attacks, which in turn allowed them solo tank slow hitting mobs, mobs that did multi hit weapon skills, and allowed them to get shadows back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
As for AOE and when Third eye are down. Thats what the DT sets are for since you can you know, change gear mid battle in that game.
Like the games current all around best tanking piece and rarest tanking piece?Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
http://www.ffxiah.com/item/26944/tartarus-platemail
The only job that has better DT gear is PLD and thats through Ageis and Burtang due to the fact that they let you break the Hard cap of -50% damage taken, which in case you didn't know no one can go above -50% damage taken naturally. These are two weapons that take most people months, if not years to obtain, which prior to them making Dynamis easy to get into by removing the time restraint and gil requirement, only a few people had their hands on these weapons and normally only one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
The only reason to take a PLD was for spike enmity and their ability to block so they could put their shadows back up.
PLD can naturally counter magic without - magic damage taken gear? Nope. RUN and PLD can counter AoE attacks naturally? Nope. So not sure why this really matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
And if you're talking about SAM's ability to counter attack with Third eye up, of course they can't. But extra damage going out while their putting defenses back up is better than no damage at all. Thing about 11 is that you geared your Sub job to handle the fight you were going into. :0
IE: Mob does a lot of fast but weak attacks? No need for /ninja. Mob does a lot of single target Magic nukes and hits hard enough that your -50% magic damage taken gear set doesn't cut off enough damage? go /nin and now /run.
Kinda hard to with a game that has lost a good majority of it's player base. But from way back when. Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/15645/sammnk-tank/
You can search the rest of the old forums yourself since theres about....15 years worth of it. -
08-02-2017, 01:03 PMChrono_Rising
I would like to see them implement a beserker tank.
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08-02-2017, 07:52 PMJustuasI'll just say that your points are out-to-date. Sam might have been good for tanking trash mobs and mobs that don't aoe much, which again is rare nowdays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
HNMs aren't relevant anymore.
If the mob spams aoe or it's regular attacks are aoe, third eye and shadows have little use and sam don't have a chance at tanking.
Run has better dt gear too. Also why are sam's ultimate weapons suited for dd unlike pld and run's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
I meant Odyssean gear but fine. Souveran cuirass +1 is better than tartarus, and it's only for war/pld.
Emphasis on "was".Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
That thread is like from 2010... not relevant anymore. I'll give you something more up-to-date http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/41...-a-guide-v-20/Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
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08-02-2017, 08:44 PMJaniseMust have been playing a different game the last 8 years. As someone who cleared literally everything in FFXI and who still thinks its still one of the best MMO despite its outdated graphics I think I can say with 100% confidence that Samurai never was and still isn't a tank in FFXI! Awesome DD though in its day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
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08-03-2017, 12:12 AMClaire_PendragonI cant speak for current FFXI, but back in my Lv75 days, literally ANYTHING can tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
The game was designed so there was no obvious "tank" and they intended just about any melee to tank. (And like I said, even non melee found ways to tank, due to the options they created)
Usually just have /NIN, and SATA and you have someone who can tank anything.
Certain jobs had better options in gear and ease of difficulty in tanking certain combinations of PT/mobs but every job was capable of tanking at Lv75.
For the largest % of bosses, RDM was the best, then BLU, then its rough to say if PLD or NIN was better, as they excel at different bosses almost equally.
The ONLY job I hadnt seen tank, was BLM, and honestly dont see any reason they couldnt tank, since WHM could. (As a somewhat comparable job in stats)
You also mention RUN is currently useful as a tank, but from my friends who played it at launch, almost no endgame mob used magic, and everyone cried that RUN was useless.
If anything, they changed endgame to make RUN useful, and that's at best a coincidence, and only works for the current endgame (which is pretty much finalized, but wouldnt have stayed this way, with how much they flip flop stuff with their new dev team)
If you're going to argue that only the current magic based endgame is acceptable in talking about the idea of SAM tanks, then one could argue that the majority of FFXIs lifespan, jobs like RUN are useless, and jobs like SAM were the "real" tanks, and therefor only arguing a small portion of its lifespan isnt much of an argument.
Looking at current tanks, and current DPS, and prior DPS/tanks/healers in prior patches, these dont seem to actually be all that related.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synestra
So how about "No."
How about we actually get new tanks and healers, and they still work on balancing it, just as they did with DPS this expansion?
Would just be easier, and more unique, to have them as a Healer imo, and then there wouldnt be an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistaire
Literally WAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising
it may not feel like it to you, but WAR and PLD are pretty much based on the Knight job, but WAR given the berserker flavor, and PLD being more like the FF1/FF4Cecil PLD type, rather than the FFT weapon/armor breaking type. -
08-03-2017, 02:31 AMOgulbuk
Don't care about thread redundancy, its cool to reset these once in a while IMO.
My 3 wish list tanks:
Blue Mage
Weapons: dual wield sinclair swords.
Despite the name, would not be so much of a "mage", not a caster anyways. It would be able to learn abilities from NPCs, but it would have it's own "Role" tab in the Actions screen called Blue Magic. You could go the game just with quest-learnt abilities slotted, or you could engage into hunt log completion to learn other Beast [Blue] "Magic". You would get a series of slots to fill, like a defensive cooldown slot, an offensive cooldown, an aoe agro holding attack, all of these would be different based on what you slot in, and what you can slot would be based on what hunt logs you have completed to denote your study of the blue magic.
Beast Master
Weapons: dual wield hand axes, or wield a whip.
It would be a tank (not the pet) but instead of stances it can call one of two pets. One pet does more damage, the other pet absorbs 20% of damage and heals directed at you.
Viking
Weapon: 1 handed hammer. Share shields with Paladins
It would rely on Thunder elemental magic for various mechanics. Their AoE agro would be a thunder sphere around the target, but not very long range.
They would not get a tanking stance, instead they would have a trait that increases their agro generation and resistance. It's DPS stance would be an en-thunder ability that adds thunder elemental damage to all their attacks, it would however negate the resistance provided by their tanking trait.
Team utility would be a combination of battle cries and thunder based effects. -
08-03-2017, 09:55 AMOkamimaru
Geomancer with a hammer or stone club.... using control of the terrain to create rock walls, use lava eruptions for aoes, root binding for stuns....
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08-03-2017, 09:04 PMChrono_RisingI would agree warrior feels like beserker, but I was a real beserker not just the flavor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon
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08-03-2017, 10:51 PMSekuNot out of date, just because it's rarer, doesn't mean it can't tank and wasn't used as a tank(as you claim, but have already admitted that they have at some point). Also, sky gods, kirin(who spammed aoes), sea gods and both section of limbus were all end game at 75. All of which SAM has tanked before, including some HNM's in the WOTG era. Rather their relevant or not at the moment doesn't matter, as this content made up a majority of the games life span.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
Sorry forgot about the fact RUN has a weapon that takes months to years to make. Also see point address your souveran cuirass gear. Since RUN you know, can't wear it at all or any heavy armor for that matter and are stuck in the lightweight and middle weight armors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
Why was ninjas ultimate weapon suited for dps when players obviously made that class into a tank? Why does RDM have access to Excalibur, other than to use as a toy? No one knows, ask the developers.
It's actually about the same for physical damage reduction, and tartarus pulls ahead for magic defense, which by your logic is the worse type of damage along with AoE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
Souveran has like....15 more vit. Tartarus has 11 more magic evasion, 2 more of a traited magic defense bonus(once only on rdm and is on run), and absorbs magical damage by 5%. Oh and 7 more actual defense. --- This is the Souveran +1, that has been augmented.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Tartarus_Platemail
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Nolan
Not to mention it still destroys your moot point of heavy armor only being stuck on drk,pld, and war.
Also since war can use both, I suppose WAR can tank too and is in league with PLD. But RUN can't use either....so RUN obviously isn't a tank. (sarcasm)
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Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
V. Equipment Sets
a. TP Sets
b. Bow Sets
c. Weapon Skill Sets
d. Defense Sets
From the guide you linked. --- Also this guide is over a year old and doesn't seem to be being kept up to date. ;o
But I see a optimized....-PDT set. a -MDT set....a HP regen set. Oh and lookie here a enmity set, the stat that lets you grab hate. In a 2016 guide for FF11.
Seems all your points are basically irrelevant and some actually fall in line with my own. -
08-04-2017, 04:24 AMJustuasAs I've said before, sam can tank trash mobs sure. Pretty much anyone can with dt set. I've seen whm tank Tojil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Only if you haven't started the prerequisites (mainly coalitions). Meanwhile you can do plenty of other stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Run is a magic (evasion) tank. Souveran gear is clearly meant for pdt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Good question. After abyssea Ninja hasn't been used as a tank much either because reasons already mentioned. It's dd now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
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08-04-2017, 04:25 AMJustuasSouveran body has enmity+ on it. That's the main reason it's better. You can also get more -dt with 2 or more souveran pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
War isn't used in tanking either anymore. What makes pld better is it's abilities and (job spesific) gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Every job needs defense sets in case of tank losing hate or seeing high dmg aoe attack about to execute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Don't blame me. Some guides are out of date because OPs stop updating them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Tanking trash mobs? For content that don't need main tank? If you read the top you see "Samurais are considered one of the big three in the current end game in regards to DDs". You can't dd while tanking, excluding hybrid sets. You'd be wasting sam's dd potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
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08-06-2017, 10:53 PMClaire_PendragonQuote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
Quote:
*gives examples*
by this logic, all of FFXI is out of date and not an example at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justuas
Every update/patch/expansion to an MMO can drastically change what is or isnt normal/accepted, and so forth. (FFXI being the most extreme example, where they actually try to enforce certain jobs into tanking now, when the original developers said they didnt want any single job tanking, but that everyone should work on distributing the dmg among eachother. The new Devs have a different idea of where they wanted to take the game after the prior devs.)
His point still stands to your original question. SAM was a capable tank at various points in the history of XI.
Aka, "show an example of SAM tanking" not "show an example of a modern game, with the most up to date patch, where SAM tanks".
Dont shift the goal post, and fail to give a counter argument when you havent actually addressed that he succeeded. (Half of the counter arguments you tried to make, didnt even follow your own logic, as he demonstrated in his last post.)