Raid loot is ridiculous

The raid token system has to be the most mind-numbing, tedious, badly put together idea I have ever seen in a game.

Farming the same instance (or two, or three if you're incredibly unlucky) over and over and over and over, watching the dice roll 8, 12, 20, 6, 92! (haha nerd, someone rolled 97), joining the long queues, dragging along the inevitable bad players who get their first time clear after dying six times and walking out with the loot you're after. It's even worse as a healer - running yourself ragged keeping the party together when two or five people inevitably forget about vacuum wave, or don't move during Blizzard, or get turned into frogs everytime, effectively carrying lazy/ terrible players through while you're stuck playing nanny for another few hours. How is it fair that someone can finish their weeklies in an hour or two, and someone else is still playing to reset day? How do people with heavy schedules even manage?

It's not even a question of "this isn't fun", it's "this is soul-destroying." It wouldn't be so bad if there were some kind of guarantee that you'd get something after how ever many runs; at least you know it wasn't entirely in vain, instead of this ridiculous up-for-grabs rubbish that punishes the good and rewards the bad. It was implemented for mounts, which are purely cosmetic, why not raids?

tl;dr grump complains RNG in raid loot is stupid

I don't understand how people have the nerve to complain about the current system, which is allready a huge step into "easy peasy" from the original way raid loot worked.

Form a good farm party with friends and/or players (farm parties from party finder are a joke, always someone jump ship) from your FC, in theory, you only need two clears per turn and everyone will get loot.

I prefer being able to rerun until I get the item I wanted over Blizzard's loot system of deciding for you if the boss will give you any loot this week...and then deciding which piece of loot you get, if any...and then deciding whether or not it's going to roll enough of an increase in item level to be an upgrade for you or not.

RNG may make you take a few tries to get your item (and I remember having to run A9 12 times in one week to get a bolt), but at least if you're persistent you'll get what you wanted.

Individual loots please!! Reason: we paid our subscription!!

/s

Someone did not get his shaft rip

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

Someone did not get his shaft rip

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http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conten...t_nosedrip.gif

I see it in PF now and then but its a good idea. If you need stuff from a certain turn, make a PF for those who have cleared and set the expectation to run it 4 times, by that time everyone should have the desired piece needed then you move on to the next one if need be. If it works out well, friend invite and meet up next week to do it again.

Find something else to do, its already so very easy to get everything, complaining as you are only makes it worse and more easy for everyone. Bring back the days of 2 to 5 years of saving up 10,000 items (FFXI relic) just to get a weapon please.

I don't really mind running the same floor several time for my drop, however it's kinda sad you're almost capped tome wise in one day because of that. They really need to stop with the 450 cap.

seriously , the drop rate of things is nothing compared to the DKP time in older mmos ..... people are way too used to popcorn MMOS where they get everything they want in 4 days ....

The content is designed to hamster wheel you into running it more than once a week, so that people who missed the boat on reset day can still find a group. The 24-man raids are designed the same way.

After having to run D3 about 7 times for my drop today I can definitely sympathize with it. I don't mind so much because it's more points toward my mount achievement but I can say I'd hate to have done that as a DPS.

Here's an easy fix that could be done easily and no one would have any real issue with:
Make Legs and Chest share or have their own token, make the rest of the "lesser" (1/2 tokens) items share tokens (or if you're feeling frisky throw the legs in there too). Vendor needs the same amount currently and the same amount of tokens drop, it's just more chances on it for everyone.

Also as a veteran mmo player reading about "old grinds" in this thread:
Older mmos usually didn't have such high spikes in item level changes per patch, and the patches were far more spread out. There was no real "rush" outside of world firsts (as those were almost never in a day, no such thing as savage mode).

Likewise older raids had more loot pinyatas to drop loot so it wasn't like our current system at all. I get that "things could be harder", but then they'd have to be out of their mind to deviate extremely to something that was at the time definitely in its infancy. (Then there's those ones that didn't even have the current end-game so hey)

Things change and are built upon and I don't think there's any need for shutting down discussion on it.

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Originally Posted by Kalocin

Also as a veteran mmo player reading about "old grinds" in this thread:
Older mmos usually didn't have such high spikes in item level changes per patch, and the patches were far more spread out. There was no real "rush" outside of world firsts (as those were almost never in a day, no such thing as savage mode).

Likewise older raids had more loot pinyatas to drop loot so it wasn't like our current system at all. I get that "things could be harder", but then they'd have to be out of their mind to deviate extremely to something that was at the time definitely in its infancy. (Then there's those ones that didn't even have the current end-game so hey)

Things change and are built upon and I don't think there's any need for shutting down discussion on it.

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Please keep in mind noone ever needs anything higher than Tomestone-Level except if you plan to raid.
310 is good enough for anything else.

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

...and I remember having to run A9 12 times in one week to get a bolt...

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Yea, the drop system is pretty bad, 12 runs of anything is awf-

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

140 and 120 turns 4 and 2 from first coil for caster chest and pants

I stopped counting LevEX kills at 120 but kept helping FC members, although that was less "specific item" and more "every class at 50 so trying to get every leviathan weapon"

In case you're wondering, I only saw one Mirror of the Whorl drop and I rolled a one

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http://i.imgur.com/FjlalyC.jpg

It's much better than the old Coil system... That was a nightmare.

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

Yea, the drop system is pretty bad, 12 runs of anything is awf-



http://i.imgur.com/FjlalyC.jpg

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People tend to forget how much worse it was back then ( i enjoyed it though ) and keep asking for more "adjustements"...

Having to run something a 100 times is fine by me.

Having to face rng a 100 times is bad game design to me.


Then again I really despise rng as a gating system, so there's your bias.

I think OP feels the same here.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Form a good farm party with friends and/or players (farm parties from party finder are a joke, always someone jump ship) from your FC, in theory, you only need two clears per turn and everyone will get loot.

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We just do an FC run do each one twice then move on, although if needed we will repeat one if someone missed out after two runs.

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Originally Posted by eschaton

Having to run something a 100 times is fine by me.

Having to face rng a 100 times is bad game design to me.

Then again I really despise rng as a gating system, so there's your bias.

I think OP feels the same here.

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You are doing that by choice and choosing the hardest way to get the loot.

Anyone remember Alex back when it was released with 2 drops per floor?

Try 20+ runs of the same damn instance.
The loot system really does need a revamp. X amount of runs and guaranteed something at least or something.
If one must go with a group of people that already has all their loot in order and only way to get loot it points out there is in fact a flaw in the system, no?
Really do not know why some think the system is fine as is, probably those that get loot in first shot...

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Originally Posted by Maero

The loot system really does need a revamp. X amount of runs and guaranteed something at least or something.

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Yep, this seems like a reasonable idea. Keep the RNG system in place there, but do it like how the mounts work for HW primals. 99 kills and you're guaranteed a mount.
Though for gear it should be less extreme, so let's make it work based on the weapons from HW primals. 10 runs and you get a token you can trade in for any item that drops from that raid (so say the deltascape shaft, for bodies, from V4.0), assuming you don't win anything from the previous 10 runs for that week. Could even make it like a Deltascape Aether Gauge. So the aether resets every Tuesday to 0, but builds up as you go do the runs. Get to 10 runs without the drop, the 10 stacks of Aether form into a a Deltascape Aether Crystal that can be used to trade in.

I also like your ideas ^ :)
Of course we know all too well SE will never implement or i have doubts

Who really cares, all you really need is the token from Exdeath each week for the weapon. With full Susano weapon, 310 verity left side and 320 Lakshmi accessories you are good enough to clear at least 1.0 and 2.0 savage if you wanted. In a few weeks you'll have 330 creation left side gear.

If anything I feel like the token distribution needs work for what tokens drop where and drop ratios in the boxes themselves.

Ppl argue that if you premake it only takes 2 runs for all to get their drop for the week. However when it comes to V3 and V4 almost everyone wants the spring in V3 or the shaft in V4 and most of the time you only get 1 per run and sometimes 2 will drop if you are lucky so you're still running more than 2 rounds on each.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

~snip~

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The alternative to this was not having normal mode at all, like in Coil, and being forced to raid. You had tome gear, raid gear (now on savage), 24-man gear and crafted gear. Plus a primal.

Also, welcome to random drops, a staple to MMOs for almost 30 years. :> Better than paying 99¢ for a guaranteed drop every time you run, 'cause that looks like the other end of MMOs currently (ick).

Well, if you tank at least you're getting points towards your armoured flying mount. >.> That's why I don't mind when I don't get my piece the first few times too much.

You have the choice to make a party in PF in which everyone wins within a guaranteed time frame. If you choose to do it through DF, that's up to you to make yourself suffer, and it's likely not a faster solution, so it's doubly bad.

Perhaps it's worth mentioning that prior to tokens, it was actual RNG, with no means of mitigation, PF or not.

You think that's bad? Imagine grinding out gear for specific resistances, then for your potions and then downing the boss.... 2 MAYBE 3 pieces drop. And it's a feeding frenzy between you and 39 other people. Old WoW raiding was the worst in terms of getting geared. Even when they implemented turn in tokens it was still bad, only it was 25 people.

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

You think that's bad? Imagine grinding out gear for specific resistances, then for your potions and then downing the boss.... 2 MAYBE 3 pieces drop. And it's a feeding frenzy between you and 39 other people. Old WoW raiding was the worst in terms of getting geared. Even when they implemented turn in tokens it was still bad, only it was 25 people.

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I nontheless loved raiding in WoW back in the days of BC / WotLK

People just want things handed to them nowadays. RPGs have always been about farming and getting lucky on ur drops. The system is fine. If u want something more guaranteed set up a PF or get a set group and run a few times to get everyone a drop. Hell u can solo tank it all and add another DPS to speed things up (yes u can solo V4 as well)

If any change to that loot system, make it drop only 1 or 2 types of token that can be used for all items. The item bloat in inventory is real.

Yeah. Ago May I return play ffxiv and HW. I was not mood run raids for try get better weapon or anima.

I enjoyed in (HW) duty roulette 60lvl. But, hated people talked me "you need better weapon. Your is low"....

Why I would 24h play in ffxiv? If I'm unlock drop items for update weapon...

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Originally Posted by Final-Fantasy

Find something else to do, its already so very easy to get everything, complaining as you are only makes it worse and more easy for everyone. Bring back the days of 2 to 5 years of saving up 10,000 items (FFXI relic) just to get a weapon please.

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Oh, would I love that back.

I think the raid loot it's pretty neat if you ask me

I don't see a problem with it honestly. The bosses don't really take that much time to kill and I haven't had to repeat a fight more than twice. You are always going to get new people that will not pull their weight but thats expected in any mmo that you are joining a random party in. Maybe having the bosses just drop the piece of gear instead of currency would be a solution but it might make it worse who knows.

Ever heard of this thing crazy invention called "Party Finder"?

I know its not exactly common knowledge, But if you were to use said crazy invention to find 7 likeminded people with which you can run V1 through V4 Until everyone in the party has what they need, You wouldn't have this problem!

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

I don't understand how people have the nerve to complain about the current system, which is allready a huge step into "easy peasy" from the original way raid loot worked.

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WoW raid tier loot is better for casual players. You run the dungeon and you get your gear for the week, no token needed. If you are a hardcore raider you do the higher tiers, I assume the gear is similar, but I'm not sure, I'm not in a raid guild.

This token system is horrible and bland, I agree with the OP.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Ever heard of this thing crazy invention called "Party Finder"?

I know its not exactly common knowledge, But if you were to use said crazy invention to find 7 likeminded people with which you can run V1 through V4 Until everyone in the party has what they need, You wouldn't have this problem!

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The problem is tedium not in finding a party.

I've done more than 50 Shiva extreme runs to get my mnk weapon for final coil back in arr when we had no totens system.

O like this system because you can queue as healer or tank tô gear your dps job.