So I've always been interested in attempting harder content in the game though I've never really bothered to delve into it til now (Thanks to crafting being a joke), though I feel as though my numbers as RDM are still fairly low. Sufficient to run content to extreme primals, but insufficient stat-wise. :confused: I've only ever tested it when geared to how I am now
To give some context and an idea of what I'm exactly working with stat wise:
--------------
INT: 2261
CHR: 1183
DET: 979
DHR: 1671
SpS: 1292
--------------
Gear wise, I'm equipped with full i320 crafted gear, except 1x i290 crafted HQ ring, and i300 Arhat headpiece. All 100% slots melded to t5/6.
In terms of rotation when I'm on the dummy (Bear in mind this is a rough so don't take it for literal as we know how dynamic and changing it is based on procs..
Acceleration
hardcast Thunder (grants Dualcast/Verfire)
(Move to Autoattack range) Aero(proc)
Contre/Fleche(weaved)
verfire
dualcasted Aero/Thunder (depending on mana needs)
Displacement/Corps-a-Corps(weaved)
Jolt II
(1) Verfire/Verstone > Thunder/Aero (Depending if previous dualcasted spell procs & on mana requirements)
---Continue this til 40/40-49-49 (Preferably unbalanced) & casting according to proc priority & using Contre/Fleche between dualcasted spells when off cooldown, alongside acceleration when possible---
Manafication
Enchanted Riptose > Embolden > Enchanted Zwerch > Enchanted redoublement
Displacement
Verflare/Verholy (depending on the lower MP)
Corps-a-Corps
Verstone/Verfire (depending on proc)
Back to (1)
--Continue to 80/80+ (preferably slightly unbalanced), again, casting according to proc priority, using the usual contre/fleche between dualcasted spells and when off cooldown, alongside acceleration when possible--
That's the general rotation I've been following (hope it can be understood), my cutoff point is just where the rotation usually cycles itself, to an additional queue, when building to 80/80, do you use all procs available, or leave them until after melee stance? Also, has anyone ever have a scenario where they find all spells are proc'd simultaneously? E.g verfire/verstone/impact (Sometimes with dualcast up, and acceleration off cooldown), if so how do you deal with it?
It usually produces a 4.4k or so opener on the dummy, then settles to be around 3907-3979 on the SSS dummy. I do understand in a raid/trial DPS may fluctuate to be higher or lower depending on buffs, downtime etc etc. But are these figures something I should be expecting bearing in mind gear, Or greater? To note this 'rotation' often does land me on the verge of another melee cycle, but gets cutoff by the 3min mark. If you're hoping to stalk my melds on Lodestone, I'd recommend doing it on my secondary (Maria Azalea) rather than my main character.
Thanks:D
RDM - What am I doing wrong if anything?
Printable View
-
07-21-2017, 04:29 AMKaurhzRDM - What am I doing wrong if anything?
-
07-21-2017, 10:50 AMFerrasper
Why would you ever hard cast verthunder? You start off with Jolt 2. Hard casting something like that is foolish. You also don't have to move to auto-attack range. You are a caster mainly. You only get in close to melee when you corps-a-corps.
-
07-21-2017, 11:16 AMMidnightTundraWhy wouldn't you start to hardcast thunder 5s before the pull? Also being a caster doesn't mean you have to be at Wal-Mart casting spells while your party is relatively stacked for healing and buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrasper
-
07-21-2017, 11:23 AMStormblessed9000The hard cast verthunder is only done pre-pull when you have a countdown. That way, you can make sure it goes off just as the battle starts, allowing it to be done without any wasted cast time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrasper
As for the auto attacks, as far as I'm aware you do get some during the GCD from dual cast but not during hard casts. As such, it is a dps increase to stand in melee range, but can be fairly dangerous since we're squishier than actual melee classes. -
07-21-2017, 11:25 AMFerrasperBecause the cast takes too long that's why. It would be easier to start if off with Jolt 2 or fleche. Coming from a caster main with all three at 70. The closer you are grouped with others. The more likely aoe are to target you which is why you stay mid-range to far away, so yes, standing a little distance away from the bosses close aoes and such is a good thing. You can still still be close enough for buffs and such mid-range and not be in the fray like you are melee. You are called ranged for a reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightTundra
I am not talking about the corps-a-corpse because obviously you have to get in close for the combo. You always have to plan that one out just in case it goes into a phase or something. -
07-21-2017, 11:32 AMRawrzYeah dont care about your other casters. Accel at 10 seconds. Diverson at 7. Verthunder at 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrasper
We are casters not ranged. You're not very knowledgeable about rdm efficiency lol. -
07-21-2017, 11:39 AMaldotengThe length of cast time does not matter for pre-pull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrasper
-
07-21-2017, 11:44 AMFerrasperRanged as in fighting at ranged. Not the physical ranged. True, BLM is my main, so our preferences our a little different. It just seems counter-intuitive to hard-cast when you have dual cast right there. I still don't see the risks for a little extra dps be worth it to be in melee range all the time on the boss. Seems foolish and foolhardy in my opinion. I will leave it at that though since I do well enough when I do play RDM, and I will stick to my style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrz
-
07-21-2017, 12:49 PMMidnightTundraIt's Red Mage. As long as you're pushing buttons you'll do good damage. It's stupid easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrasper
You're just not playing optimally. -
07-21-2017, 12:57 PMFerrasperThat's why I have my BLM. That is the one I only care if I play optimally on. As for RDM, I only play it if I am super tired from a long day because as you say. It's stupid easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightTundra
-
07-21-2017, 01:03 PMStormblessed9000
Since you'd otherwise just be waiting for the fight to start, the thunder is free, zero risk potency. As for melee range, it depends greatly on fights. There will be some that are fairly safe while others where it's not worth the risk. Ultimately, if you know it's not going to put you at significant risk it's absolutely a dps gain to auto attack.
-
07-21-2017, 02:16 PMLeyati87
You'd want to pre-cast your first spell to be optimal on BLM too, though.
-
07-21-2017, 04:11 PMCherub
Every caster precasts.
Summoner precasts Ruin III
BLM precast Blizzard III
The reason why they do that is to be optimal.
There is literally 0 reason why RDM should not hardcast a Veraero/Thunder 5 seconds before the pull. It's stronger than Jolt II, gives you a direct chance to proc if you use it without accel, it grants you dualcast. This is very simple to understand, really.
Since it's prepull, the cast time doesn't even matter. The fight hasn't started yet. At that point it's a simple comparison, 230 potency and 6 mana and impactful proc OR 270 potency, 11 mana and fire/stone proc. The choice is quite obvious.
You can stay whereever you want with RDM, staying in melee ranged just helps for little bits since you won't have to run into the boss to use certain attacks, assuming corps a corps is down because it should be used for DPS. I prefer to stay in melee range because corps a corps most of the time is on CD so I don't rely on it to get in range. -
07-21-2017, 05:44 PMSetStndbySmn100
Hey Kaurhz,
I'm going to ignore the guy who seems to be new to mmo's and doesn't understand precasting.
I didn't see a mention of Impact in your rotation, which should be used in place of Jolt II for every other hardcast when not ver-ready. Not sure if you just forgot to mention it. It's kindof a dumb mechanic and serves no purpose from a design perspective other than to make people use two keys for jolt's function.
edit: looked again and saw it mentioned at the bottom, so I'm assuming this isn't the case.
As for the multi-proc problem, if for some reason you do find yourself in that situation, it's probably best to verstone into quickcasted aero / verfire into quickcasted thunder. This way you don't lose potential procs because you are clearing the slot for that quickcasted spell with your hardcast. -
07-21-2017, 05:53 PMelreyDallas
Doesn't standing in melee range prevent mana regeneration? It wouldn't be something I'd do for a prolonged period of time if that's the case. Mid range is the sweet spot for me. As a healer, I absolutely hate when casters are 5 miles away for no reason when I need to aoe heal so I like the idea of standing mid range. That's where I try to be when I play RDM for the most part.
-
07-22-2017, 02:50 AMMaero
But blm we precast also....
If you are not, then your rotation is not optimal for both blm and Red Mage -
07-22-2017, 02:57 AMFerrasperIt depends if I am puging or not. If I am with a pug group I don't because I don't know or trust the tank enough to have the agro. I have pre-casted too many times with pugs to have me take the agro immediately because the tank wasn't fast enough. If it is with friends then sure, I will do it. Most of the time I play though it is with PUGs because my life is too busy for a static.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maero
My definition if optimal is different then yours. Optimal means doing the right rotations with right mana tick management. Prec-cast has nothing to do with optimal. For example, performing 3.0 and 4.0 mix perfectly. Pre-cast has no bearing on that.
As for the guy I put on ignore, I can't take the words of a July 2017 joiner seriously, so good troll attempt.
Edit: This is the last time I am responding here because I just don't give two fucks anymore whether you guys agree with it or not. Chester Bennington's death hit me hard then expected, so I have to go deal with those issues. -
07-22-2017, 04:02 AMFuriousIf you didn't care, you wouldn't post. You said the wrong thing, got called out, and have kept reiterating wrong things to follow. You play your way, but don't come into a thread asking for advice and give wrong advice, then get shitty when people tell you you are wrong. It isn't a matter of opinion, what you are saying is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrasper
Not precasting is a dps loss. Not standing in melee range when you can do so is a dps loss. Not being in melee range because you don't know the fight is your own failure, and a dps loss. In every fight so far in stormblood there are significant portions of the fight where you can and should stand in melee range, even if it wasn't a dps loss not to do so, so that you can control where mechanics land (ie: raisen kaikyo), or so you can get aoe healing. Every time I see a blm setting up leylines in Africa on a section of a fight with no reason to be at range I roll my eyes.
Verthunder/ is 300 potency and since you seen to think you aren't bad at the game, I'm going to assume you have diversion up on the pull in a pug. So, you generate 300 potency of enmity in the hardcast/dualcast verthunder+aero.
Shield Lob is 840 potency worth of enmity (it has a 7x enmity multiplier), shield oath is a 2.7x multiplier. A single shield lob in shield oath generates 2268 potency of enmity. Paladin weapons are 97 physical damage (susano sword), susano rapier is 131 mdamage, so your 300 potency multiplies to around 405 potency relatively.
405 (for a veraero AND verthunder) vs. 2268 (for a single shield lob). If the pld is good, they will precast holy spirit into the shield lob, for an extra 1080 enmity on that first gcd.
The other tanks have equally generous single gcd ranged aggro.
If your tank is literally body pulling.. yeah.. maybe you shouldn't precast. Even if your tank is pulling in DPS stance, they will STILL have more than double your first gcd threat with their first gcd threat. -
07-22-2017, 04:08 AMKabooaGotta bless the rains down here, ya know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
-
07-22-2017, 04:23 AMcov3rtSo let me get this straight... OP posts a detailed rotation asking for optimization help to see if he is doing anything wrong and you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrasper
-Respond with blatantly incorrect information telling the user not to pre-cast despite that doing LESS damage (precasting is indeed OPTIMAL despite you having your own magic definition of what optimal is)
-Respond again saying you don't even care about playing RDM optimally because you have your BLM
-When called out for your wrong information you flame the other user as being a "2017 joiner"? Congrats I guess you have just been playing wrong for longer.
Why even respond to the post when it is clear you have no information to help the user? I thought other game forums were bad but holy crap. -
07-22-2017, 04:47 AMJoe777
I'll keep this short and sweet due to character limits. Reasons to start a battle with Verthunder/aero instead of Jolt II:
Jolt II has less potency than all Ver spells.
Jolt II offers less Mana Gauge in total than all Ver spells.
Acceleration procs Verfire/stone off of Verthunder/aero, not Jolt II.
Debates to use Jolt II instead of Verthunder/aero:
Longer cast time. Matters in battle, but not before battle. Moot argument.
Costs more MP. How much more? Not enough to matter.
Timing. Easily the biggest argument. Remedy? Diversion. Tank can grab aggro from you if you happen to cast before they pull easier with Diversion lessening enmity gain.
My DPS doesn't matter in this dungeon. Legit argument, if it's true. Endgame content is not this forgiving, especially if you queue via Duty Finder.
I used to open with Jolt until I heard someone mention opening with Ver spell is better because cast time doesn't matter pre-battle, and I cannot argue that. The truth is undeniable.