With new Savage raid how much will party composition matter?

I'll stepping foot into savage in the next few days and wanted to know from those that have done savage omega how important party composition will be, primarily pertaining to which dd jobs are taken. With abilities and ground effects will it still best to take 2 ranged dd and 2 melee dd or is this no longer a factor anymore? Is a 4 melee dd comp feasible for casual play? Is a 4 ranged dd comp feasible for casual play? Basically what I'm trying to ask is will using non-meta setups like this severely hamper progression?

Well i will try this week also but i imagine bringing a Bard and Machinist would not be ideal. Even 2 Bards over say a Red Mage or blm may not work. This is just speculation

4 melees is not something you would ever want.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

4 melees is not something you would ever want.

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Why's that?

Ideal composition would need to include 1 blu mage, 1 geomancer, 1 swordmaster dual.sword and 1 dragoon for battle litany and eye of the dragon. Must need tanks are dual shielded legionair and berserkers and healers are time mage and ast for the balance, so unless u have this OP comp. Good luck in ever beats. Omega savage.

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Originally Posted by Fuma

Why's that?

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A fight where thwre will be aoe around melee 2 have to leave the boss, which is dps loss.

If you care about group composition.

I'd take 2 ranged (1 physical and 1 caster) and 2 melees.

At the moment, bring jobs that can buff the party so that you can by pass the dps check and not see enrage.
It will only matter until people are well geared.

For example: DRG, NIN, RDM, and BRD. (You can replace DRG with MNK)

Technically speaking, any non-repeating job party composition will work, but that does not make it ideal. Example: 4 melee is entirely possible, but do to having the requirement of absolutely needing to do mechanics in content like savage, it will ultimately not be ideal.Certain compositions will make some fights harder or easier, as well. Raids no longer have required jobs like Coil days did and maybe A6S.

My group has never once had a popular composition; even in omega savage, we run 1 melee, 2 casters and 1 physical ranged.

Cleared O1 and 2S with smn, blm, rdm, sam\nin, so at least for O1 and 2 party composition shouldn't matter much, as long as your raid dps somewhere around 19k with melee lb3 you'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Well i will try this week also but i imagine bringing a Bard and Machinist would not be ideal. Even 2 Bards over say a Red Mage or blm may not work. This is just speculation

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Bard is pulling higher numbers than Dragoon and Summoner. I don't understand why people keep bringing it up as weak when it does considerably high damage. Coupled with the support options available and it's fairly standard for groups at the moment. That all said, no one job is so bad it would be a complete hindrance to bring. Admittedly, Machinist, Summoner and Dragoon are noticeably inferior to their respective counterparts-- in that order-- but they all can handle Savage. A four team melee comp though would be awful since mechanics would force two of them to disengage.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Bard is pulling higher numbers than Dragoon and Summoner. I don't understand why people keep bringing it up as weak when it does considerably high damage..

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For a large portion of the players playing bard, their numbers are abysmal, that's why. =_= People don't take me seriously when I say player skill is a thing or why it's incredibly hard to find actual job DPS numbers because of such skill variation in players (and epeening, etc.).

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Bard is pulling higher numbers than Dragoon and Summoner. I don't understand why people keep bringing it up as weak when it does considerably high damage. Coupled with the support options available and it's fairly standard for groups at the moment. That all said, no one job is so bad it would be a complete hindrance to bring. Admittedly, Machinist, Summoner and Dragoon are noticeably inferior to their respective counterparts-- in that order-- but they all can handle Savage. A four team melee comp though would be awful since mechanics would force two of them to disengage.

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Yes but having 2 Bards is never the best option, and let's face it the Bard community has averaged more bad players then good ones that know how to play the job.
I used to main Bard so know it is very capable of damage

Most progression groups I've watch are taking the following raid comps. But...in the end it doesn't matter too much as long as your not doubling up on jobs and players are competent:

DRK (MT) | PLD (OT) | DRG | NIN | RDM | BRD | AST | WHM/SCH

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

For a large portion of the players playing bard, their numbers are abysmal, that's why. =_= People don't take me seriously when I say player skill is a thing or why it's incredibly hard to find actual job DPS numbers because of such skill variation in players (and epeening, etc.).

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Bard pulls in large numbers yes, but considerably so with a Dragoon. Most top parses you see for Bard are because of that. When you don't factor in piercing resistance, they're still below the other casters (maybe they edge out against summoner? I doubt it).

I believe that, unless your static competes for server first, group composition isn't of too much concern. Atm all jobs are viable.
More important is that the players are comfortable with their class and are able to play it on a high level of skill. Example, if your ranged dps is a bad Brd but an exceptional Mch, I'd always take him on Mch, even though Brd might be more favorable for the group.
That being said, I wouldn't do extremes like 4 melee or 3 casters. Also you should avoid double classes for Lb.

#deleteBLM

O4S is basically clearable with any comp, but most groups on my server that I've seen stream have ditched their MCHs, DRGs, and SMNs completely. Good representation of all three tanks and all three healers though - SE seems to have gotten that part somewhat right, at least.

Probably doesn't, considering they made it so you can't enter with two or more of the same job.

We cleared with Smn, Bard, Ninja and Sam
Our tanks were War/Drk
And our heals were AST/WHM

party comp outside server first and world first or any HC group isnt as big of a deal. MAIN THING IS TO NOT HAVE MULTIPLES OF 1 CLASS. Reason behind that is it will penalize ur partys LB. Most groups run 2 melee 1 utility and 1 caster. This allows u to have all the different types of LBs. It also allows u to be seperated to see more of whats going on and not jumble up aoe drops. Having different classes gives u more types of raid utility. A brd or MCH makes things easier with there mp and tp regens but u dont want to have both usually and now that goad and mp transfer are available between classes do not make them must haves. MOST IMPORTANT is to get a group that doesnt rage or quit AND CN MAKE UR SCHEDULED TIMES. Ur guys relationship and dedication to ur times will make or break ur team. U cant have flakes that are always late or might not show up and u cant have a guy that quits in the middle of practice. Its like joining any other team, one person can screw over 7 others

It does matter: You hurt your LB generation a lot by doubling up on a class.
Outside of that it's not particularly important.
There are some synergies that make certain combinations more worthwhile. RDM's embolden buffs physical damage, so it has a higher impact with 2-melee comps. A DRK/PLD tank set would really appreciate a SAM or NIN for the slashing debuff. It's not something to worry about too much.

My static has been running melee/bard/2 caster and will probably keep doing so. We don't usually have trouble with DPS checks but we're also not typically pushing early clears.

While I can't speak to O2S-O4S, O1S seems as though it's going to be pretty darned lenient when it comes to party composition. My casual group, who normally take weeks to clear ANY stage of a raid, brought O1S down to 30% health on our first evening of practice, and that was with two DRG in the party, underpar gear, and numerous deaths cutting into our DPS. With practice and a bit higher ilvl gear, even we should be able to farm this tier in short order.

party comp doesnt matter, havin competent players who all know how to maximize their dps is what matters. I pugged 1 and 2 so far and killed both as enrage was going off. Would have been much easier if I wasnt doubling my co tanks dps, (i hate pug paladins, they have no idea how to leave shield oath or optimize their dps) if the healers did more than 1k dmg, and half the dps couldnt break 3.5k. Please just learn to optimize your rotations and go in with the best gear available to you.

For the first couple weeks, O3S' enrage might be tight enough for triple-melee to be a legitimate point of concern. Leave-the-boss moments are unusually frequent in that fight; it's possible that ranged jobs will fare better numerically when we start getting some data en masse. So for those first couple clears an extra melee may actually cause some added difficulty.

On O1S and O2S I wouldn't worry at all, haven't seen much of O4S yet. And the O3S thing should become moot in a couple weeks with a little gear and cleaner farm runs.

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Originally Posted by Cetonis

For the first couple weeks, O3S' enrage might be tight enough for triple-melee to be a legitimate point of concern. Leave-the-boss moments are unusually frequent in that fight; it's possible that ranged jobs will fare better numerically when we start getting some data en masse. So for those first couple clears an extra melee may actually cause some added difficulty.

On O1S and O2S I wouldn't worry at all, haven't seen much of O4S yet. And the O3S thing should become moot in a couple weeks with a little gear and cleaner farm runs.

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Pretty much this, LB concerns for week 1 double class will only matter in 1 and 2 if your group is REALLY bad, then once people get geared it will be the same for 3.

I thought BLM would be bad, but I've already seen a video of one clearing O3S at nearly 4.8k dps. I believe one of the first 4 O4S clear groups had a BLM as well.

I think ranged DPS in general are doing very well in this raid teir.

I would say as long as you don't stack multiple of the same class throughout your group comp you should be fine.

If you all play your jobs well and play well together, it doesn't matter.

Can't a master craftsman still perform quality work whether he has brand new tools or weathered ones?