After years of playing Summoner, I'm shelving the job and here's why.

Summoner has no identity anymore. None of it's core mechanics work in conjunction with each other, and in fact several directly contradict. Optimal play involves making bizarre decisions and constantly fighting against the job's design.

Let's get one thing out of the way first; I love damage-over-time effects and classes. I will be biased for that. Summoner was the perfect DPS for me and was the only thing I truly enjoyed playing. Even after the fantastic story of Dark Knight got me into tanking, I still preferred playing a damage dealer and played Summoner for my static and did a very large majority of the story as a Summoner because it felt right. Both for me and my character.

With that said, Stormblood has killed almost everything I liked about this class.

This is why.

1.) Summoner no longer plays a Damage-over-Time Job.

Every change in Stormblood has massively de-emphimized the role of Damage-over-Time (DoT) effects. We lost two dots to consolidation and the remaining two have been copied into identical duration and potency removing all of the difficulty and destroying the identity of both. Summoner operates in one-minute windows, and with our dots lasting 30 seconds that means both only need to be cast a maximum of 2 times, at exactly the same time, every single time.

This only gets worse because Tri-Disaster is updated to only apply these two dots and resets on every Dreadwyrm Trance. You no longer need to cast any dots during the opening moments of a fight, and only need to refresh your effects a single time in window before Tri-Disaster comes off cooldown in an optimal environment. They exist still, but you don't ever hardly use them and make virtually no decisions around them. Upkeep has been rendered braindead and requires no awareness or skill.

Nothing has been added to make up for this shift in gameplay, so the majority of a Summoner's time is now spent spamming Ruin. A spell with no bonus effects, a very bland and uninteresting animation, and virtually no interaction with the rest of the kit.

In addition to the above, no abilities added in Stormblood interact with a core part of the Summoner's kit outside of a passive upgrade. Fester is still the only Summoner ability that has any gameplay with a major theme of the job. I do not ever see the developers walking back from this, so I can only assume a major reason I loved the class is dead and gone now.

At the very least there is still the mana conversion aspect of the job with Ruin III, but even that has been downplayed by the large nerf to Ruin III's damage and the moderate buff to Ruin's damage. There isn't anywhere near the gap there once was to really make the different spells feel that different.


2.) Summoners don't play like a pet job.

Summoner already had very little to do with the pets, but this has been exacerbated by Stormblood. Not only are there no new abilities to interact with the pets, but Summoner actually lost skills they used before. This is coupled with the fact that Summoner pets are incredibly, irredeemably, infuriatingly stupid.

As a "pet-job" your pet does not care about your input at all. They are incredibly sluggish to respond to even the most basic of commands. You pet can get pushed to a position where they will no longer attack if placed on stay, and one of the only abilities that does interact with the pets, Enkindle, can outright fail because the pet refused to use the ability immediately, or because it suddenly had to move for more than a few seconds in a dungeon environment.

Even the pet's innate abilites are sluggish to respond to the master's direct commands when placed in manual mode, as they will often prefer to cast their auto-ability once queue'd over the Summoner's commands.

What should ideally happen is the pet immediately cease it's action and respond when the master issues a direct command. Abilities like Contagion are a breeding ground for unsatisfying play when sluggish pet AI makes valuable cooldown abilities like Tri-Disaster or Deathflare miss the debuff. There should be absolutely no delay between command and pet action.

This isn't even going into the fact that Summoner lost valuable pet support abilities, such as Sustain to keep them alive when they will take AoE damage. Losing a pet costs a massive amount of mana and cast time (or another minute cooldown to make it instant) that not being able to support them is frustrating when they do take damage. There is an uncertainty of if it will be fine or not, and nothing you can do about it.

Titan-egi is rendered virtually useless by extension, as a tank pet has no way of avoiding auto-attacks from enemy mobs, and sluggish response time means it is often hard to manually move him out of AoE effects in the overworld. This also makes the loss of Eye for an Eye annoying, as it was another ability the Summoner could use while solo to support their pet in addition to the incredible support it brought to parties in dungeon and raid content. Demi-Bahamut also renders Titan-Egi even worse, as casting the ability will despawn him and wipe the aggro table. He has no reason to exist.

Stormblood added nothing to the Summoner for interacting with the pet, and the pet sluggish AI makes the valuable debuffs the melee and caster pets bring frustrating to time and the only direct pet-to-Summoner interaction is a passive random proc to upgrade your most boring spell.


3.) Summoner doesn't play like a 'Summoner.'

To preface this with brutal honesty, honestly I do not really like the Summoner style in past Final Fantasy games. I liked Final Fantasy XIV's incarnation far more, but what I liked was mostly stripped out to make room for this. Kind of a shame it doesn't even do that right.

He has a roughly ~135 second build up time (2 Aetherflows + the duration of the second trance, assuming you do not discard it for a faster Demi-Bahamut). If you die at any time, that progress is immediately reset. To make matters even worse, unlike other jobs with a short build-in time to the stacking mechanic (like Blood of the Dragon and Enochian, both 30 second cooldowns), Aetherflow is still 60 seconds until the build up can begin and it has to cycle. The only other job that comes close to punishing a mistake so hard in any environment is Dragoon with Eye stacks and Life of the Dragon.

Demi-Bahamut clashes with a lot of themes and mechanics that want to be at work here. He's a big, visually impressive summon that does nothing without explicit prompting from the Summoner in question. He won't even use his so-called signature attack of Akh Morn without being ordered to. He won't even auto-attack.

Instead what he does is follow the Summoner around like a neglected pet who just needs a cuddle really badly. What's worse, is this even plays against summoning Demi-Bahamut in the first place because of the next point.


4.) Summoner has too many competing actions and themes.

Aetherflow and Aethertrail used to have a very solid flow and cadence between the Summoner build-up and bust phases. That is gone now, as these two abilities are mutually exclusive and no longer interact. You are forbidden from using Aetherflow while Aethertrail is active, which has awful ramifications for a Summoner's thought process.

At the start of a fight, you want to quickly expend all three of your Aetherflow abilities and immediately go into Dreadwyrm Trance. This is supposed to be your burst phase for the Summoner to get free Ruin III upgrades while passively doing more damage over the duration, however you are actively encouraged to discard this first Trance as fast as possible.

Aetherflow is locked the entire time you remain in Trail/Trance mode, which means your highest damage off-global cooldowns are being pushed further and further back into the fight and out of the opener window of Trick Attack, Battle Litany, or other enhancing effects while you remain to capitalize on Trance.

This changes the flowing cadence of Aetherflow and Aethertrail into a completely stop-and-go style where you are constantly running into roadblocks.

In addition Demi-Bahamut is locked behind two uses of Dreadwyrm Trance, and Dreadwyrm Trance is locked behind Aetherflow. Every second using the first trance is pushing everything else in the Summoner's kit backwards.

Demi-Bahamut himself is a mess of design. His only two abilities, Wyrmwave and Akh Morn, both have an absolutely massive one-hundred yard range, and yet he will prioritize standing behind you whenever possible. This also has a negative effect for raid mechanics, as his large model can block out icons and markers for players. Why doesn't he just remain in place and fire off his abilities? I can think of only one raid and one trial where your combat arena is larger than one-hundred yards.

Demi-Bahamut is also somehow stupider than your average pet, as he will refuse to even attack if the Summoner is otherwise incapacitated, such as force-stunned during Susano (Extreme) or a fight like Deltascape V3 with Ribbit. The fact he must be forced to attack leads to unintuitive and selfish play to maximize damage by saving off-global cooldown support abilities like Addle to enable Wyrmwave attacks. This can also lead to wasted Ruin IV procs, as you will need to use Ruin II to weave in enough abilities, all the while his Wyrmwaves have the chance of proccing a new Ruin IV.

And speaking of Ruin IV, this new trait also serves to go against the theme of supporting and empowering a pet by completely desyncing your only pet buff ability (Rouse) with your pet's absolute best cooldown (Enkindle), when they otherwise would cycle together perfectly. Enhanced Enkindle should have also lowered the cooldown on Rouse by the same percentage to keep them tied together.

Another ability that fights against itself is Aetherpact/Devotion, and by god is it a bizarre ability. It only effects the closest party member, which can be wildly different depending on if you have a melee or caster pet out on a per fight/comp basis. So, you want to use it on your best DPS... except that involves either them moving into range for you to push the button (and the pet to use the ability) which could result in lost positionals or casts, or you need to move the pet to them which results in no actions from the pet until it resumes attacking, depriving you of all of the pet's dps and any possible Ruin IV or Enhanced Enkindle procs. Demi-Bahamut also can't use Devotion, as far as I'm aware, which creates deadzones where the ability is worthless.


5.) Summoner received virtually nothing new in Stormblood.

Despite all of the above changes drastically pulling at Summoner in almost every direction, Summoner didn't actually get anything new to tie it together. Ruin IV is a random proc that overwrites both Ruin and Ruin III, so you passively hit by pushing the same buttons as always.

On the dot front, Summoner lost access to Bio and Miasma II, hurting their identity as the plague job and the aoe job, while a passive trait forcibly upgrades Bio II and Miasma straight to Bio III and Miasma III at level 66. You gain nothing new outside of a new effect on a spell you were already using some 60 levels ago, except now you use those abilities even less.

Aetherpact changes nothing worthwhile about the way Summoner would play, except to make the sluggish pet control even more infuriating when trying to force the pet into position and to cast Devotion.

The only new spell with any gameplay changes is Demi-Bahamut, but as I discussed above instead of trying to tie any of this together or to enhance the strengths of the class, he just pulls it off in a completely different direction and adds even more complications to the mix.

To make things even worse, the only new thing Demi-Bahamut adds to your repitoire is... Wyrmwave. His basic attack that he won't even do without being forced into it. Akh Morn is literally just a bigger Deathflare, instead of any other mechanic from the fight that would have been more memorable, or the biggest abilities he used from the End of an Era, Teraflare (to attempt to destroy Eorzea) or the Summoner version of Teraflare, with the arcing exploding bolts of aether.


6.) Summoner isn't fun at any level anymore.

With all of the themes pulling at Summoner, and the de-emphasis on dot play in general, has reduced Summoner to being a primarily Ruin Mage. Ruin is the most basic spell in the entire kit, and yet it is the only ability left that doesn't (entirely) conflict with other abilities or get locked by the Aether- gates.

This also makes it ridiculously unfun to play the further under level cap you are, as more and more abilities are stripped away or offloaded into more powerful versions of themselves later. Ironically being below 66 does make the dots require more attention, but their power has been dramatically gutted by the loss of a third dot, and Summoner's power for area damage has been kicked further out of the theme by the loss of Miasma II (Also it makes almost no sense for Bio - Bio II - Bio III, but Miasma completely skips the II step now and goes I - III).

There is entirely too much at work here, and too many basic fundamental problems plaguing the job right now. What is the theme of this job supposed to be? Dots? Pets? Summoning? Your primary spell over all of that is a generic Ruin (that you got at Level 1), and none of those are really supported by the rest of them. Why does Demi-Bahamut follow you when he has a range twice the size of an average battle arena? He has more range than any other player spell in the game, by a massive margin, and yet he sticks to you like glue. Why are all of your upgrades passive and change nothing? Ruin IV is passive. Enhanced Enkindle is passive. Bio/Miasma III are passive upgrades that result in you using them less and filling the gaps with more Ruin.

Where is this job supposed to be going?

I don't know, and I'm tired of waiting of find out. I've sat on Verity and Omega drops for two weeks now in the hopes that something would change. Summoner would get at least one identity back, or at least have the glaring core problems fixed. To the developers credit, they did fix one of many core problems, so maybe there is hope.

For almost all of my time in Eorzea, I've enjoyed being an Arcanist, and later Summoner. The playstyle appealed to me, the lore was interesting and engaging, and it was fun dreaming of what would come next.

But for now, that dream is over. I'm not going to play through a broken mess to get a new temporary pet that's signature additon to the game is an auto-attack (I already got Akh Morn for myself 2 years ago now), and that's the only real new thing added. Everything else I can already experience now, so until then this grimoire is being shelved.

If you suffered through that salt manifesto, I salute you. If you're actually having fun with the new Summoner, then good for you. I hope you enjoy it. I don't, and will be (impatiently) waiting to see if the things I liked about the class will ever make a comeback. I looked for a more appropriate feedback subforum but couldn't find one, so if this is in the wrong place, I'm sorry.

TL;DR:

1.) Summoner has too many themes at play, and none of them interact well if at all. DoTs, Pets, Summoning, or Ruin mage. None of it meshes anymore.
2.) Summoner has core design problems, like sluggish pet AI or fact that Bahamut follows you when he has triple your range.
3.) Summoner's competing abilities have created a backwards logic, where your opener and Bahamut-phase have become a mess of decisions that never feel good to make.
4.) It's really not fun anymore. Send help. :(

A solid analysis of Summoner's Stormblood failings.

It's a shame this seems to be falling on deaf ears as the developers think Summoner's most pressing matter is Demi-Bahamut blocking other players' view. Guess what? You won't have to worry about that with no one playing Summoner in the sorry state it's in.

Give yourself a TL;DR version at the bottom for a quick overlook. Cause I sure as hell didn't read past your first paragraph.

But I was still interested in knowing.

UH dk in wow suffers from the 4) too. You have some dots but your interaction with them is very lacking and uninteresting, you have your pet but again, the interactions feel very poor, and then you have some direct hits skills who feel underwhelming because there is too much going elsewhere.

But ffxiv has an extra issue that is how bad pet mechanics work here, the pet will not respond to our commands the moment you command it, it takes damage from aoe skills and you have no way to keep him up, it is a utter mess.

They should get rid of SMN permanent pets and turn them into actual summons that only last a few seconds. Or even you only summon a shade of the actual primal(not an egi) that casts some skill and then vanishes(pretty much what they do in other ff games).

Now if they want to keep the pet system they better fix it, which I believe they would have done already, if they could.

While personally I still find the class fun to play, and adore the addition of Bahamut, I can certainly agree with how contradictory and conflicting many of its current mechanics feel.

And, much as I love Bahamut, its refusal to attack in favor of trailing after you is rather annoying. Like I suppose it's supposed to be a burst, and generally both SMN and BLM remain glued to the same spot during their burst. This was plainly obvious when it was limited to Ruin III spam in HW. But now that Bahamut is the primary means of burst damage, having your mobility restricted like that just feels... wrong.

I am with you. I main RDM now.

I feel for you on this

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Originally Posted by Nezia

They should get rid of SMN permanent pets and turn them into actual summons that only last a few seconds. Or even you only summon a shade of the actual primal(not an egi) that casts some skill and then vanishes(pretty much what they do in other ff games).

Now if they want to keep the pet system they better fix it, which I believe they would have done already, if they could.

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yeah the first way would be interesting... give smn a kind of elemental-wheel which change the base-element of your skills -> using skills with a certain attribute could fill your gauge -> if your gauge is filled to maximum -> release a "summon-finisher" based on the ele you filled your gauge with. They could give smn endless primals for summoning this way. could be a refreshing way of ff14s interpretation of smn at all.

or expand the use and synergy related to pets - don't give smn new skills with further expansions but give them to the egis which would make them way more important than they are now... if it is supposed to be a pet cls than focus on pets for real... more than just con & enkindle... : /

The only way they fix SMN now is separate it from SCH, leave the SCH with the medical/viruses dps and healing skills and make SMN an actual SMN with either more pet interaction or fast-paced summoning on each skill (that just works visually, like summon Garuda for a GCD and off she goes real quick) and of course balance it as a caster job without looking at SCH anymore.

I completely agree with your sentiments.

I main heals; however, I have used SMN as my DPS job since the job has been announced and I thoroughly enjoyed the complexity of it as well as the flow pre-4.0. While I'm not opposed to changes at all, I feel the changes to SMN has soured the experience (in all of the ways you've described) for myself and a vast majority of the SMNs I knew that played the job.

A great deal of my friends have all jumped ship to RDM, citing that they don't have fun with SMN anymore. I've been stubbornly sticking to the class because I've been in the "funky spot" once already (looking at AST 3.0) so I feel I have a certain tolerance with suffering through until things get resolved, but SMN as it stands is beyond even that.


Before, everything weaved together with a proper timing that just felt good, did not hinder mobility, and was quiet easy to manage. I feel all of that was tossed out of the window for even more punishing aspects (the long wind-up, losing it all in the event of circumstance) for the job.

I just don't know, I know it's impossible to just request of the devs to "Go back" or "Rework" the job again, so I definitely don't blame you for abandoning the job... heck, I feel like doing the same and like the entire mass of SMNs out there... going to RDM. The job is infinitely easier and has such a clear identity of what it does and is nowhere near as punished as SMN.

It's just infuriating to a degree that the devs wanted to eliminate complexity of all the jobs, but they destroyed the flow of SMN and then added RDM which is infinitely easier to play with just as much utility. It's as though they wanted to just cull SMNs off and purge the job eventually. I know it sounds outlandish but it certainly feels that way.

As as SMN I just feel plainly upset and a bit depressed when playing because before it was so fun. Enough so that I was constantly debating whether or not I should play RDM or keep with SMN (pre-4.0 of course) and SMN was winning in my mind. But now it's just hands down a terrible experience.

And I think what was worse for me was that as much as I enjoy Lore, the Job quests for SMN seemed like an afterthought. Much so that I felt like skipping through it and I read everything.

I don't know... It just sucks to see SMN in this predicament when it felt like we were here once before and the Devs just don't hear our pleas for amendments to the job.

Though i wonder what they'll do when the census comes out and they notice the vast majority of SMNs are gone and RDMs are filling the ranks of parties in their stead.

I actually enjoyed reading this analysis on the job as it matches everything thoroughly with what my partner complains to me about the job. She has been complaining about the same things about the job. I hope SE takes some time to actually address the core issues of the job and pay attention more to the community on this particular job. Sometimes I feel that the game developers do not play the job or simply do not know how to balance the job properly while addressing its core issues. Do not stop lobbying for changes to the job, as the more SE sees that there are multiple threads where players are requesting changes to the job, the more they will eventually get tired of seeing those threads and do something useful.

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Originally Posted by Neela

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My dream has been timed summons with minor party buffs building up to Bahamut actually.

Cycle Elements to summon Bahamut, the more elemental summons you have, the higher damage he does (Min of 3, leading to 2 minute cycles?)
Each Summon lasts for 30~ seconds, Enkindle usage immediately makes the summon vanish. Using the Enkindle in the last 5~ seconds of a summon duration gives you swiftcast on your next summon.

The summons would have effects like:
(Numbers would have to be adjusted of course)
Ifrit: STR+ 5%, Enkindle: Inflict Slashing Resistance Down on Target(s)
Titan: VIT + 5%, Enkindle: Inflict Damage Dealt Down on Target(s)
Garuda: DEX + 5% Enkindle: Inflict Piercing Resistance Down on Target(s)
Ramuh: INT + 5% Enkindle: Magic Vulnerability Down on Target(s),
Shiva: STR + 5% Enkindle: Inflict Blunt Resistance Down on Target(s)
Leviathan: MIND + 5%, Enkindle: Mini HoT/Refresh around Egi
Bahamut: Parameters 5% based on elements, Enkindle: Flat Out Nuke

Weave in Dots + Fester/Bane, cut ruin spam.

Gain Utility and diverse rotations based on party, feels more like a "summoner", cuts the ruin bot.

I tried to sum it up as best I could without being too wordy again.

TL;DR:

1.) Summoner has too many themes at play, and none of them interact well, if at all. DoTs, Pets, Summoning, or Ruin mage. None of it meshes anymore.
2.) Summoner has core design problems, like sluggish pet AI or fact that Bahamut follows you when he has triple your range.
3.) Summoner's competing abilities have created a backwards logic, where your opener and Bahamut-phase have become a mess of decisions that never feel good to make.
4.) It's really not fun anymore. Send help.

I'm a little worried. I've only seen negative feedback and sadly...Summoner is my only class at 70 and I love playing it. I really don't know where to go if it's such a bad class :( I guess I could go back to healing like other MMOs i played

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Originally Posted by Revanslave

I'm a little worried. I've only seen negative feedback and sadly...Summoner is my only class at 70 and I love playing it. I really don't know where to go if it's such a bad class :( I guess I could go back to healing like other MMOs i played

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Go RDM. It is fun and does more DPS than current SMN.

I'm in the switched to RDM crowd, as well.

I think that was a great analysis/summary of issues. I think a lot of changes are really needed, but unlikely to happen. They aren't going to rework the entire job now that it has been released. A number of things that would help for me, anyway (and assuming potencies would need to be adjusted appropriately).

1. Give me back sustain
2. Make Bahamut just a long CD, instead of tracking to two sets of aetherflows. have it line up with two aetherflow rotations, maybe, but at least this might make death a bit less punishing.
3. Improve response time on eigis.
4. Make Bane less of a nerf - at least make it usable, which it isn't currently.
5. Buff Ruin III and IV - they just feel so underwhelming to cast.
6. I'd have Ruin I replaced by Ruin II. Make us the mobile caster - these are just the same spell in a different wrapper.
7. Give Bahamut a different attack. Anything to make it feel new.
8. Let Aetherflow abilities be used during deathtrance.
9. Reduce the CD on shadowflare.
10. Reduce the CD on aetherflow.

I would never expect this whole list, but any of the above would be a plus, I think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Revanslave

I'm a little worried. I've only seen negative feedback and sadly...Summoner is my only class at 70 and I love playing it. I really don't know where to go if it's such a bad class :( I guess I could go back to healing like other MMOs i played

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If you like playing it, then you should play it. It's bad to me (and others) because it's so radically different from just 5 weeks ago. The playstyle pulled a complete 180 and for those of us that enjoyed it... it's not fun.

Their damage is quiet low, but SE would at least give some potency buffs eventually. That said I'd echo the sentiment and suggest Red Mage as well. Well designed and a verstraight forward job. Easy to pick up and play.

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Originally Posted by Flana

If you like playing it, then you should play it. It's bad to me (and others) because it's so radically different from just 5 weeks ago. The playstyle pulled a complete 180 and for those of us that enjoyed it... it's not fun.

Their damage is quiet low, but SE would at least give some potency buffs eventually. That said I'd echo the sentiment and suggest Red Mage as well. Well designed and a verstraight forward job. Easy to pick up and play.

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Yeah it's just hard to give up on a class I've played since I started the game. I will most likely keep trying it out and see how I do, but if it's so underwhelming I really bring the team down then I relly have no choice but to change.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Revanslave

I'm a little worried. I've only seen negative feedback and sadly...Summoner is my only class at 70 and I love playing it. I really don't know where to go if it's such a bad class :( I guess I could go back to healing like other MMOs i played

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Play whatever you like to play = first rule in mmos. ^^

Most of the complains are just based on endgame and raid-role. You should always stick to your personal likings and not to opinions others made. After all u play this game for yourself first than for the mmo-community in endgame later on.

No one should feel the preasure to switch cls just because it's recommended by someone else.

Okay, I can't be the only who thinks we need a "Rescue" skill (with normal GCD) for pets, can I?

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Originally Posted by Flana

If you like playing it, then you should play it. It's bad to me (and others) because it's so radically different from just 5 weeks ago. The playstyle pulled a complete 180 and for those of us that enjoyed it... it's not fun.

Their damage is quiet low, but SE would at least give some potency buffs eventually. That said I'd echo the sentiment and suggest Red Mage as well. Well designed and a verstraight forward job. Easy to pick up and play.

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I concur. SMN (3.x) was far more fun than this version.

Not that I am opposed to change, but these changes are much too jarring and has resulted in a job that pretty much is pushing a lot of casters to drop it and go to RDM.

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Originally Posted by Writer

Okay, I can't be the only who thinks we need a "Rescue" skill (with normal GCD) for pets, can I?

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I think you are, especially when Heel basically does this (although it's not a teleport). I'm not at all in favor of using a GCD just to insta-move a pet. SMN has far bigger problems.

If BRD can undergo such a large rework of their abilities and a re-imagining of the job amidst a swath of job changes and two new jobs being added to the game, I'm finding it difficult to believe that SMN can't be severed from ACN and undergo a similar transformation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grimfaust_BLM

If BRD can undergo such a large rework of their abilities and a re-imagining of the job amidst a swath of job changes and two new jobs being added to the game, I'm finding it difficult to believe that SMN can't be severed from ACN and undergo a similar transformation.

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5.0. Please look forward to it...

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

I think you are, especially when Heel basically does this (although it's not a teleport). I'm not at all in favor of using a GCD just to insta-move a pet. SMN has far bigger problems.

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Heel is slow and makes it hard to get pets out of AOEs. A Rescue-like ability to pull them out would be helpful in my opinion.

Also, I'd really like for pets to lose their auto-attacks and instead make them normal abilities you can control under obey since the auto-attacks require GCD and/or casting making them harder to control. In honesty, I think Summons should work like controlling two characters rather than one and a semi-automated one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Writer

Heel is slow and makes it hard to get pets out of AOEs. A Rescue-like ability to pull them out would be helpful in my opinion.

Also, I'd really like for pets to lose their auto-attacks and instead make them normal abilities you can control under obey since the auto-attacks require GCD and/or casting making them harder to control. In honesty, I think Summons should work like controlling two characters rather than one and a semi-automated one.

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So you'd like another button for us to have to press every 3 seconds, in addition to everything else we have to manage?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

So you'd like another button for us to have to press every 3 seconds, in addition to everything else we have to manage?

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Honestly? No, I wouldn't mind having another button to press if it's own GCD like the rest of a Summon's moves so you can use it during Ruin cast time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

So you'd like another button for us to have to press every 3 seconds, in addition to everything else we have to manage?

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Could be one decent sized attack every 20 seconds or so. Pets right now are just in a odd state that anything would help them. Like taking the idea of certain buffs for summons someone mentioned a bit ago, and tossing them onto pets, making them a proximity like buff. Cause Devotion is a joke, they took the more 'appealing' function from it being group wide and turned it into single, but can't even target anyone with it, and their responsiveness is down right absurd because it feels like everything they do is tied into the servers 'tic' rate which is the only real thought I can think of as to why they are so clunky at times.

All direct damage spells are DoTs that require manual upkeep.

Just sayin'

I second this. I've been summoner since i started and now... nope. I'm about to hit 70 and then I won't touch it again unless some severe changes are made. I'm no masochist.

Another dejected smn here. Nothing is straightforward in this class anymore and optimization works counter to intuitive play. Whatever goals you had for this class square, unless it was to make it harder to play and less rewarding, or to make room for redmage to shine, you done derped.

I shelved it back in ARR after I noticed it was literally a clone of a WoW Warlock. Compete with soul shards, imp style pets and DoTs

If they ever actually wanna make a Summoner I'd be happy to try it again in the future

I would prefer a summoning system where we keep aetherflow stacks, use carbuncle as our base summon and build up a bar for energy to summon a demi summon, then use a demi summon. The demi summon will actively drain the bar, and you can order it to "Blood Pact" for powerful abilities. Which also drains the bar. You weave blood pacts and ruin spam to keep the bar going as long as you can until eventually the bar runs out. This makes the demi summon disappear. And then you start over again.

Of course there would be more spells and would go in more depth, but a system like this is what I would like.

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Originally Posted by Telvorei

I would prefer a summoning system where we keep aetherflow stacks, use carbuncle as our base summon and build up a bar for energy to summon a demi summon, then use a demi summon.

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Summoners should not be a pet class at all. They should just be about weaving a little bit of black magic/time magic and using aetherflow finishers in different orders to influece a high potency summon every 20-30 seconds. Different summons for different occasions: single target, aoe, short duration, long duration, etc. Could even have support summons in the future with Lakshmi, Phoenix, Asura, etc.

Right now we have a Summoner who cant even call Shiva or Ramuh, its sad.

Pets should be for SCH and eventually BST, not SMN

In my opinion, all of Summoner's problems have always stemmed from being tied to Scholar through their class. Sure, things worked in 2.0 and 3.0, but now in 4.0, Summoner's lack of identity is now quite apparent and harming the flow and development of the job. Summoner's pets are not well developed enough to be called a pet class, nor are we a DoT class as we only have two DoTs now, we are... a ruin spamming machine. They need to finally separate SMN from SCH, leave the virus and disease role to Scholar and give SMN a proper identity and playstyle (and leave the books to Scholars and give SMN a proper weapon while they're at it.)

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

I second this. I've been summoner since i started and now... nope. I'm about to hit 70 and then I won't touch it again unless some severe changes are made. I'm no masochist.

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It is pretty much what I did. I tried giving it a chance, but I saw myself hating it more and more.

so sad seeing so much of you leaving.... either its understandable by a fair degree... it's just sad somehow q.q

Going to keep SMN as my main ranged/caster job, but I'm going to be focusing more on SAM until/unless they really give this job some attention.

Totally agree with OP. Played the game since 2.0, Mained smn from 2.4 to 4.0. It's just not fun anymore and Bahamut isn't enough to make up for it. Red Mage is my favorite job of all time, but I still would have Mained smn if the changes weren't so bad.

I agree with basically everything in the OP. The new rotation is about avoiding damage loss, making sure you don't overlap anti-synergizing skills, rather than maximizing and lining up burst synergy. I think they definitely need to go back to the old system with aetherflow.. lots of things I'd suggest here:

- Bio 3/Miasma 3 durations reduced to 15s/24s, potencies increased to compensate.
- Contagion back to a 15s extension of DoTs (which means it has a 15s window to go off, so it being unresponsive isn't as bad as it's now)
- Flaming Crush gets a fester-like effect, dealing 30 extra potency per DoT.
- Ruin 4 instant cast, upgrades ruin 2 instead of 1/3.
- Ruin 3 potency increased to 200, MP cost increased by a ruin 2 cost.
- Shadowflare cooldown reduced to 30s
- Aetherflow and related skills can be used in DWT and Bahamut, Bahamut and DWT itself are still exclusive.
- Rouse affects bahamut
- Wyrmwave: Auto-attack, 5s cooldown, 1.5s cast, using damaging abilities will reset the cooldown.
- Like PvP, you can use bahamut after each DWT (edited)
- Only 1 ahk morn per bahamut (cooldown increased to 30s).
- MP return from Energy drain increased by the same amount as Ruin3 cost increase (it should give 1 ruin upgrade exactly).
- Tri-bind potency increased to 65
- Aetherpact affects the entire party (I just nerfed utility from contagion, so that compensates)
- Aethertrail timer back.. yes that means the guage needs to be changed (quick concept):
http://i.imgur.com/YXC3Z8kt.jpg