Craft leveling

My experience in MMOs is very limited.

I played XI for a very long time. I transitioned from XI to XIV. In between, I tried a few others but never made it to a point where crafting was a concern.

I'm curious what those who have played other MMOs think of SE's method of leveling crafts by spamming the same recipes over and over.

Is this how other games do it? Do other games make it harder? Easier?

I'm not saying we shouldn't have to work for our exp. But it seems to me like they should prioritize the random leves situation and give us a more dependable way to level crafts rather than having to farm materials longer than it takes to process them.

I do thin being able to see our progress is a major step up from XI's random 0.1s.

As my sig may show, I'm just not a fan of repeating the same recipe for hours. Just seems odd to me that it's been a year and there's nary a mention of any changes.

Yeah, its pretty common in games, but they are making progression as a whole in the genre.

Personally, I would like to see a more intricate minigame type crafting system. One that perhaps takes a little skill and attention, but gives much much more XP then the current system per synth.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Yeah, its pretty common in games, but they are making progression as a whole in the genre.

Personally, I would like to see a more intricate minigame type crafting system. One that perhaps takes a little skill and attention, but gives much much more XP then the current system per synth.

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I would agree with this tradeoff, but honestly I like the crafting minigame as is.

Most other MMO's do tend to make it that way but SE took it a step in the "THIS IS A CLASS NOT A CRAFTING JOB" direction.

Vindictus > Takes forever to farm materials > Takes 5 seconds to "gain a proficiency point" where a casting bar fills up
WoW > Same > dependent on item that is being made but still gain at least one point into your craft

Yeah that's pretty much all i know but you see can tell just by explanation that it's alot different in XIV then other games where they don't actually have an experience gauge just a 1-200 or w/e the highest skill is in that game.

There are just so many skills which seems useless(ex Brand of lightning - Temporarily improves stability of harnessed lightning elements. Used this ability, next action received unstable lightinging element, failed the synth. Unstable lightning element showed up on the next synth, used Brand of Lightning, nothing and failed the synth with the ability still active). Using skills adds to the time consuming process. If the effect of abilities was more pronounced I think I would enjoy it more.

As crafting stands now I liked it for a while and got really tired of the spammy actions. I think it would be much better if it was not possible to just spam a button for the most efficient leveling. I used to try harder items and use abilities for more xp but it was just so random. I could use every ability I could and still fail then next succeed with most of the durability remaining.
It is a shame that they are going to make it more instant like other mmos and use the mini game for hq.

My experiences with MMOs and crafting/gathering is that the crafting/gathering systems tend to feel stapled on, almost like a bizarre house addition. Yeah, they give people something to do besides grind in combat and yes, they can add depth to the economy, but more often then not they're just poorly designed and thought-out time sinks with marginal benefits. Grueling is usually a good word to describe them.

FFXIV has one of the more robust and dynamic crafting and gathering systems I've experienced. It's intimidating at first and certainly isn't explained well, but once you delve into it I've found it to be pretty rewarding. I don't have all my crafting skills at 50 but I have almost all of them near 20 and I plan on continuing onward with them. :) And hopefully SE will continue to evolve these elements as they evolve the other classes.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

My experience in MMOs is very limited.

I played XI for a very long time. I transitioned from XI to XIV. In between, I tried a few others but never made it to a point where crafting was a concern.

I'm curious what those who have played other MMOs think of SE's method of leveling crafts by spamming the same recipes over and over.

Is this how other games do it? Do other games make it harder? Easier?

I'm not saying we shouldn't have to work for our exp. But it seems to me like they should prioritize the random leves situation and give us a more dependable way to level crafts rather than having to farm materials longer than it takes to process them.

I do thin being able to see our progress is a major step up from XI's random 0.1s.

As my sig may show, I'm just not a fan of repeating the same recipe for hours. Just seems odd to me that it's been a year and there's nary a mention of any changes.

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Most MMO require you to do the same recipe maybe 10-20 times at the most, I agree that crafting is pretty dire and needs to be completely overhauled.

I believe the dev team are changing the way crafting works though so I will hold tight and hope they make it less spammy, the current system only promotes the use of botting anyway.

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Originally Posted by jones6

Using skills adds to the time consuming process. If the effect of abilities was more pronounced I think I would enjoy it more.

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The abilities currently vary quite a bit in usefulness, but there are a few that are really awesome and make a huge difference in success rates.

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Originally Posted by jones6

I used to try harder items and use abilities for more xp but it was just so random. I could use every ability I could and still fail then next succeed with most of the durability remaining.

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There is an element of randomness, yeah--it would be completely predictable otherwise. The key for me has been to find a "sweet spot" that gives 500+ exp per item and is challenging, but not impossible. Then I have to pay very close attention in order to succeed, and I find that rewarding. :) Those sweet spots depend upon level difference, the gear you have, and whether you've purchased a guild bonus (among other things).

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

My experience in MMOs is very limited.

I played XI for a very long time. I transitioned from XI to XIV. In between, I tried a few others but never made it to a point where crafting was a concern.

I'm curious what those who have played other MMOs think of SE's method of leveling crafts by spamming the same recipes over and over.

Is this how other games do it? Do other games make it harder? Easier?

I'm not saying we shouldn't have to work for our exp. But it seems to me like they should prioritize the random leves situation and give us a more dependable way to level crafts rather than having to farm materials longer than it takes to process them.

I do thin being able to see our progress is a major step up from XI's random 0.1s.

As my sig may show, I'm just not a fan of repeating the same recipe for hours. Just seems odd to me that it's been a year and there's nary a mention of any changes.

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In most games, the same recipe will usually get repeated until a higher level recipe comes along that the player learns from.

Games will not be named, but crafting styles mentioned:


Craft at a designated craft station. Materials and a recipe scroll must be assembled manually. There is no error checking for incorrect recipes and will consume all materials (recipe scroll included) if this recipe doesn't even exist. No error message is provided other than you could not craft the item. No in-game indication of what materials were required. Crafting progress is an instant success or fail, no progress bar. Have a chance to skill up with each craft. No indication that a recipe is too high or too low, other than constant failure, which may also be due to assembling the incorrect materials. (Higher difficulty)

Craft at a designated craft station. Choose a recipe known from a recipe trainer, vendor purchased, or from local leve-equivalent. Guided assembly lets you choose materials and/or quality of materials if it exists. Use skills to advance progress, improve quality, or reduce chance of hazards (equivalent of spark/elemental unstable). Address hazards as needed. Complete recipe, gain some EXP within your designated crafting class. Chance to apply additional components at the end to enhance attributes if desired. Rinse and repeat until crafter level up. Recipes take anywhere from 30 seconds to a few minutes to create. (Same difficulty)

Craft at a designated craft station. Allows unattended bulk crafting. Hidden crafting EXP gradually improves gradually improves skill. Craft progress is determined by skill checks against your crafting level with outcomes such as fail, minor progress, major progress, or transform to high-quality. New recipes are learned through vendors and world drops. Recipes usually completed within 15 seconds. Initial levels, one would need to upgrade to a more "challenging" recipe every 10 to 20 points of advancement (initially out of 350) (Lower difficulty)

In Age Of Conan, you could level all of your chosen crafts very rapidly to maximum level. The trick here was the good recipes, the ones people may actually want to wear for example for a tailor, are item drops in one of the numerous dungeons that the game has. They are rare drops, so you have to run the dungeons and farm them out.

This system seems like it would work well in FF14, if the game had dungeons.

My problem isn't so much with the rate of progression I suppose. Or even the pace of the mini game. I know Mr. Yoshida has mentioned a few ideas about this in interviews but nothing concrete since.

My biggest problem is the major overhead when it comes to time wasted before I ever kneel to craft.

Last night I spent two and a half hours logging Oak just to burn through the mats in an hour for a whopping 17k exp.

I think that's an awesome rate of exp, especially for the low 30s. But considering the time it takes to farm, that's about 5k an hour.

That's why I think a simple adjustment to leves is the way to go. Give us leves every 10 levels just like everyone else, and make them regular instead of the random mess they are now.

I know the devs have been intentionally focusing on battle, but with the importance of materia gear in battle, it's about time this leftover from the old game gets some attention.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

My problem isn't so much with the rate of progression I suppose. Or even the pace of the mini game. I know Mr. Yoshida has mentioned a few ideas about this in interviews but nothing concrete since.

My biggest problem is the major overhead when it comes to time wasted before I ever kneel to craft.

Last night I spent two and a half hours logging Oak just to burn through the mats in an hour for a whopping 17k exp.

I think that's an awesome rate of exp, especially for the low 30s. But considering the time it takes to farm, that's about 5k an hour.

That's why I think a simple adjustment to leves is the way to go. Give us leves every 10 levels just like everyone else, and make them regular instead of the random mess they are now.

I know the devs have been intentionally focusing on battle, but with the importance of materia gear in battle, it's about time this leftover from the old game gets some attention.

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I'd argue that every 5 levels would make more sense as, unlike battle leves, crafting leves can't be scaled. They even come in 5 level increments so it would work out perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

My problem isn't so much with the rate of progression I suppose. Or even the pace of the mini game. I know Mr. Yoshida has mentioned a few ideas about this in interviews but nothing concrete since.

My biggest problem is the major overhead when it comes to time wasted before I ever kneel to craft.

Last night I spent two and a half hours logging Oak just to burn through the mats in an hour for a whopping 17k exp.

I think that's an awesome rate of exp, especially for the low 30s. But considering the time it takes to farm, that's about 5k an hour.

That's why I think a simple adjustment to leves is the way to go. Give us leves every 10 levels just like everyone else, and make them regular instead of the random mess they are now.

I know the devs have been intentionally focusing on battle, but with the importance of materia gear in battle, it's about time this leftover from the old game gets some attention.

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Ah! You're right about the amount of materials gathered getting blown away super fast.

I think I had several evenings worth of iron ore (ore gathered from levels 16~30) and another several evenings worth of silver ore (gathered from levels 31~35). I think both of those lasted me less than three hours over the evenings (although did net 1000 seals for the iron and 3 goldsmithing levels converting to Silver Ingots).

But if feels like things get blown through fast. Albeit, if this was going toward making equipment people would use, that could be a lot of items.

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Originally Posted by normalforce

I'd argue that every 5 levels would make more sense as, unlike battle leves, crafting leves can't be scaled. They even come in 5 level increments so it would work out perfectly.

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That was what I originally was going to say. Every five levels would be ideal. But, I didn't want to seem like I was being unfair to other disciplines. DoL is tough, especially around 40+ due to how their leves work out.

But, yes, a new tier of leves every five levels would be ideal. I'd be fine with having to deliver to out-of-the-way places then. The current combination just sort of sucks with how often we get leves below our level that require us to travel longer than it takes to craft.