DRK Lamentations/requests

I can't stress it enough how disappointed I am in the 4.0 DRK. Other threads have touched upon the over reliance on TBN and many others lamented the loss of scourge.
But personally, the loss of pre-crossclass Low Blows and Reprisal hits equally hard.

The vast majority of the fights in XIV are beyond stale to tank now that DRK has been reduced to 2.0 PLD-esque combo machine.
Everything before level 68? Do your enmity combo once, then spam souleater for the rest of the entire encounter.

The opener has become laughably easy and simple; Dark Passenger has been nerfed to hell and is no longer worth using, scourge has been removed, Dark Dance's synergy with Reprisal and Low Blow is gone as the first has been removed and 'replaced' with Anticipation which neither PLD or WAR is ever going to use and the latter two lost their procs, damage (and with it the ability to give MP with bloodweapon) AND ARE ALSO CROSS CLASSED.

All of this results in an utterly slow and boring tank. But this would've been fine IF the new 70 abilities; Quietus and Bloodspiller were OGCDs.
The only thing that I actually enjoy from the new toolkit is Delirium + Bloodweapon, as it somewhat brings back the reward of having Bloodprice and Bloodweapon popped at the same time in 3.0.

I wouldn't give a care in the world if DRK ended up being the 3.0 PLD where it was shoved aside by the elite raiders due to doing less damage. I just want a tank that is fun to play.

Please consider reverting the changes you've made, or alter the existing ones to resemble the 3.0 DRK playstyle more.

/rant

Bring back shadowskin, our OGCD's, and for the love of god, add scourge to our enmity combo or to quietus (god that'd be awesome). Why is PLD the only tank to get positive changes to their combos AND retain both their DOTS?

As a matter of fact, PLD is the only tank to be able to slot back everything they lost.

And Dark Passenger makes zero sense to use, ever. Two drain's is basically the same as a passenger but with more aggro gen.

Also DRK is the only tank to basically have two combos. WAR has Storms Eye, Path, and Block. PLD has Royal, Goring, and Fury.

DRK has Soul Eater and Power Slash. Because for any tank not PLD, it's better to remove every skill completely and not replace it then to remake the skill right?

And make TBN last for 8-10 seconds.

While WAR still has zero utility, with the coming changes and the promise of shake it off being utterly revised (meaning they have a good chance to give us utility) the fact is they are possibly going to address every major issue we have.

Aside from buffing damage for DRK, what is really changing for the class? They have no such guarantee right now.

Admitantly I do enjoy playing the class but I can enjoy something and still see the flaws. And DRK has more flaws and unless the patch notes coming soon indicate future changes, less of a future to look forward too.

I mean, does anyone else find it a little...weird that PLD is more of a magic tank then the dark knight?

I wholeheartedly agree, but unfortunately this is what SE wanted, for DRK to be easier. However, what I don't get, is that we went through this with PLD before. People talked about how boring it was cuz you just used one combo the whole time, yet here we are. Even our mitigation is boring, the whole tanking, utility and even the DPS of DRK relies on one ability.

Remove Dark Arts Siphon Strike, way too much Dark Arts spamming. I also don't really enjoy using TBN like at all.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

Remove Dark Arts Siphon Strike, way too much Dark Arts spamming. I also don't really enjoy using TBN like at all.

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No keep it.

Add a third combo ability that gives extra utility to make for for removing delirium.

If they can completely change shake it off and give back scholar miasma II, they can down the line give DRK another combo.

Agreed. I must have posted the same things in a million threads now.


Goodbye Dark Dance, Low Blow, and Reprisal. Fun skills all around with a great synergy. Goodbye Delirium and Scourge.

Unleash---WHY? Now level sync content sucks.

Dark Passenger---OK, I understand the "why" here (make it shitty so you don't use it as a ST oGCD) but these changes make it useless.

Rampart instead of Shadowskin----Gross.

Blood Price---wow, this is extremely unsatisfying to use now. Locked behind Grit, I get it. But 25% of the old MP return?

Quietus---talk about a "meh" skill.

New Delirium---at its best when dropping Grit for BW.

We lost......A LOT and got Bloodspiller and TBN in return.

Having been playing it at 70 for a while now, I have to agree with the complaints. Even TBN has serious issues - the five second long window makes it difficult to use for anything other than tankbusters. Why not make it 10 seconds? Dark Passenger has become a defensive cooldown for huge pulls (we're talking like 9+ here), and other than that just shouldn't be used. We lost a lot of pretty animations and the levelling process is terrible now. I like the change away from Darkside draining mana - that mechanic added complexity to the floor of playing the class, and felt suppressive. But there needs to be more room in the skill ceiling too - New Delirium and BW every two minutes for effectively infinite mana/blood is entertaining but pretty simplistic.

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Originally Posted by Age_of_Oblivion

Having been playing it at 70 for a while now, I have to agree with the complaints. Even TBN has serious issues - the five second long window makes it difficult to use for anything other than tankbusters. Why not make it 10 seconds? Dark Passenger has become a defensive cooldown for huge pulls (we're talking like 9+ here), and other than that just shouldn't be used. We lost a lot of pretty animations and the levelling process is terrible now. I like the change away from Darkside draining mana - that mechanic added complexity to the floor of playing the class, and felt suppressive. But there needs to be more room in the skill ceiling too - New Delirium and BW every two minutes for effectively infinite mana/blood is entertaining but pretty simplistic.

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I think the "no high skill ceiling" is a good way to put it outside of using TBN before server ticks (the real high skill ceiling) on big hits.

I don't like that they are just upping combo/darkarts potency to increase DRK's damage in the upcoming Patch.

You know what would be nice? If instead of just upping the darkarts potency, they'd revert Dark Passenger to its original state.
It would mean increased DRK DPS (which is what they want), and it would do greatly in making the job less monotonous and fun by adding a new OGCD in our singletarget rotation.

On another note, I dont understand their reasoning to turn the complex-and-very-active HW DRK into the most simple job out of every job in Stormsblood within one new expansion.
That's just alienating the playerbase that was built up around HW DRK for 2 years, who came to like its highly active playstyle in Heavensward. It's similar to the strong paradigm and playstyle shift that BRDs experienced in the transition between ARR and HW, just less pronounced.
If they wanted a simple go-to tank for newbies, HW PLD was already the playerbase for that for many reasons already.

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Originally Posted by Thoro39

On another note, I dont understand their reasoning to turn the complex-and-very-active HW DRK into the most simple job out of every job in Stormsblood within one new expansion.

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I cannot agree more. I personally hate the entire stance of lowering the skill ceiling, as you only piss off the people who actually got the most out of the job.
But simplifying DRK the most as well? The previously the more complicated tank? It's the absolute worst.

New abilities would be nice, but

If they are going to increase Souleater combo potency but don't do the same to Bloodspiller, than we're back to that first issue where force-procing Bloodpiller as off-tank becomes less valued - less incentive to use it (which frankly - it being a gain for DRK output is what makes it valued utility, and this gives DRK their 'stress' gimmick [using SE's words]).

I saw mention that a number of 'added-effects' being considered for abilities, though I don't see the source of the first-hand. All I read from the LL was potency increase. Where did this info come from or is it even real,

PLD is also the only tank that has it's built in stun not removed.

Since stormblood is mostly physical damage you can see where DRK falls short in mitigation outside of lvl 70 content

Please, can we all unite to get a better ultimate CD instead of Living Dead?

It's only saving grace is that it's on shorter CD than Hallowed and thus can be used more frequently if a group plans around it. It's complete garbage (Sorry, Yoshida) outside of planning and shifts the entire burden onto a healer. Meanwhile Hallowed Ground even allows PLD to avoid certain debuffs, like Susano's slashing debuff.

There's plenty ways to improve this ability, or better yet change how it works entirely to be balanced with the other two tanks'.

This ability would work better if it were a healer's since using it would be their decision.

I truly believe no one on the job development team knows what to do with DRK anymore really.

Our abilities trailer. Very vague info on what DRK had or could do. (Delirium wasn't even shown I think)
Our previous LL that we just had. DRK damage potency increases... pretty vague.

They backed themselves into a corner with this magic damage nonsense, then completely had no idea what to do with said magic tank when it gave magic mitigation to every other tank and noticed they cut DRK'S toolkit into billions of pieces..

I mean, it's not like the forums had PLENTY of ideas and information for them to reference for two years on what we liked about the job..and what we needed.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

Please, can we all unite to get a better ultimate CD instead of Living Dead?

It's only saving grace is that it's on shorter CD than Hallowed and thus can be used more frequently if a group plans around it. It's complete garbage (Sorry, Yoshida) outside of planning and shifts the entire burden onto a healer. Meanwhile Hallowed Ground even allows PLD to avoid certain debuffs, like Susano's slashing debuff.

There's plenty ways to improve this ability, or better yet change how it works entirely to be balanced with the other two tanks'.

This ability would work better if it were a healer's since using it would be their decision.

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This is a perfect time I think for Dread Spikes to replace Living Dead xD

Honestly, if they would JUST buff blood price back to restoring original values, that would make me 100% satisfied. They don't even need to make it accessbile outside of grit. I can live with it being locked if they could just make it just as good as before. It would fix issues that DRK lacks enough physical CDs for dungeon pulls due to having access to DA-AD and would make using delirium much more satisfying to use, and would make using DA-DP rewarding instead of a punishing tradeoff for security over MP/dps. In fact, as it stands, bloodprice feels like it fills gauge instead of MP. Let's change that!

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

Please, can we all unite to get a better ultimate CD instead of Living Dead?

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well my thoughs are that i wouldnt hate the current living dead if we the player could prevent it from taking us out like
when walking dead is activated all ws heal for 100%, this in turn would allow us the one with the status to remove id even be fine if while we were in this state all other sources of healing but our own were nullified if it meant we had the ability to prevent our own death.

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Originally Posted by Esp

This is a perfect time I think for Dread Spikes to replace Living Dead xD

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you know i was always sad our tank stance wasnt dread spikes.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

If they are going to increase Souleater combo potency but don't do the same to Bloodspiller, than we're back to that first issue where force-procing Bloodpiller as off-tank becomes less valued - less incentive to use it (which frankly - it being a gain for DRK output is what makes it valued utility, and this gives DRK their 'stress' gimmick [using SE's words]).

I saw mention that a number of 'added-effects' being considered for abilities, though I don't see the source of the first-hand. All I read from the LL was potency increase. Where did this info come from or is it even real,

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Translations from Yoshi during the live letter from multiple sources. As in the past the "translation" we have currently on the forums isn't the full info and is more of a summary. If we only got potency increases it would be quite dry of a "buff" and not fix any essential issues regarding our tanking. Only really fixing our damage output.

DRK below 70 is a nightmare of a class. Absolutely terrible.

But DRK at 70, is honestly a step in the right direction. TBN is literally the shit and I cannot stop raving about it.

For the most part the major issues with DRKs kit now is the supposed balance of their defensive kit around TBN. This is complete BS and TBN cannot ever carry the kit when compared to what PLD and WAR possess. Without innate Dark Dance and 3.0 Reprisal, DRK has absolutely nothing moderately powerful to use inbetween Tank Busters and that makes them take extra unnecessary damage. DRK's tankbuster kit: Rampart, Shadow Wall and Dark Mind are frankly completely pathetic when put in comparison to their counterparts.

How to fix this? I suggest that DRK regain it's old Reprisal. If the idea of it's old Reprisal being somehow too strong then it make so it's only in effect for the DRK/Target. That should help alleviate the damage DRKs are now taking due to the gaping hole in it's defensive kit. As for it's Tank Buster kit, it's pretty simple. Make Shadow Wall not flat out bad compared to Vengeance and Sentinel and make Dark Mind also affect physical damage. The biggest change I believe is having Dark Mind be a 60 second 15(30)% mitigation.

If those changes or something can be done then great and I don't believe TBN needs a nerf since it's duration and effect is perfect where it is. Something that should be timed properly and used in certain situations rather than spammed for a little extra in DPS gain but otherwise largely inconsequential. TBN should be how Tank Defensives are designed imho. A cooldown that rewards mitigation plays with something that contributes to the fight.

Obvious aesthetic changes like Shadowskin instead of new Rampart, BRING BACK SCOURGE, etc.

Oh, and I've seen this quite often but I don't think Bloodspiller should be oGCD at all. If anything I think the potency should be increased more but that's it. If Bloodspiller was changed to oGCD now with it's current potency it'd be absolutely broke. But for the most part I prefer it to be on the GCD because it breaks the monotony of Soul Eater spam and I'd like to see that sick as all hell animation to it's fullest and not become Carve an- Soul Eater.

Quietus however should be oGCD and Abyssal Drain should generate 1 Blood per target hit. (Will edit with reason later, life calls).

They specifically said they'd be adding an effect to Quietus which jeez, thank god. I mean with a name like that you'd expect a silence effect at the least. Hopefully it's good.

But yeah, they said they'd be adding effects to abilities. I'm hoping they fix more than just Quietus. It's like everyone who plays DRK has different input on what's wrong with the job, so they just ignore us completely.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

They specifically said they'd be adding an effect to Quietus which jeez, thank god. I mean with a name like that you'd expect a silence effect at the least. Hopefully it's good.

But yeah, they said they'd be adding effects to abilities. I'm hoping they fix more than just Quietus. It's like everyone who plays DRK has different input on what's wrong with the job, so they just ignore us completely.

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We agree on what's wrong its the fixes everyone has wild ideas about. I know I've got my own ideas on how I'd fix the class. I wish private servers were a thing.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

They specifically said they'd be adding an effect to Quietus which jeez, thank god. I mean with a name like that you'd expect a silence effect at the least. Hopefully it's good.

But yeah, they said they'd be adding effects to abilities. I'm hoping they fix more than just Quietus. It's like everyone who plays DRK has different input on what's wrong with the job, so they just ignore us completely.

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I really really don't understand the whining over Quietus. It does what it is intended to do: use blood for AoE damage. Got Blood? Use Quietus. Got MP? Use Abyssal Drain. But people complained so loudly about this ability, apparently, that we're getting a useless buff to our 4-man AoE damage and not to any of the crap that is actually wrong with the job.

I miss the old Abyss Drain spamming from pulling everything before boss/door until they sucked all the fun and flavoring out of the job

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

I really really don't understand the whining over Quietus. It does what it is intended to do: use blood for AoE damage. Got Blood? Use Quietus. Got MP? Use Abyssal Drain. But people complained so loudly about this ability, apparently, that we're getting a useless buff to our 4-man AoE damage and not to any of the crap that is actually wrong with the job.

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My complaint about it is that it was not a blood-worthy skill. Barely stronger than AD, no enmity modifier. Its only perk is not costing MP. Its DA effect is not worth it either.

When you have something (DA+Quietus and our current version of Dark Passenger) not worth using to me that is a negative.

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Originally Posted by Falar

My complaint about it is that it was not a blood-worthy skill. Barely stronger than AD, no enmity modifier. Its only perk is not costing MP. Its DA effect is not worth it either.

When you have something (DA+Quietus and our current version of Dark Passenger) not worth using to me that is a negative.

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Buffs to a job's AoE damage, particularly when that job's AoE damage was already very solid, should be at the bottom of the priority list, tbh.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Buffs to a job's AoE damage, particularly when that job's AoE damage was already very solid, should be at the bottom of the priority list, tbh.

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Then you can argue the skill shouldn't have been added, which several people have. I mean, if they reverted Dark Passenger and Unleash then we have the same good old lineup we've always had.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

regarding Quietus

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I agree it's pretty much at the bottom of the list, however it's a really common complaint both here and on JP forums and fact is Dark Arts on Quietus is objectively bad.

They're probably more sensitive about new abilities that are broken, so with that being said, I'll take what I can get as far as repairing our janky job.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

I agree it's pretty much at the bottom of the list, however it's a really common complaint both here and on JP forums and fact is Dark Arts on Quietus is objectively bad.

They're probably more sensitive about new abilities that are broken, so with that being said, I'll take what I can get as far as repairing our janky job.

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Yeah, lower priority than the other changes needed, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

For me, a huge positive change would be for Bloodspiller to come off the GCD (so it no longer counts against our MP/Blackblood generation) and then to make up for it and prevent MORE double weaving CnS lose its Dark Arts effect and just become our version of the new Dream within a Dream (3 x 150 Potency hits). They could even toss it a Grit effect of a decent sized life steal.

I would rather double weave bloodspiller than CnS since CnS's cooldown won't reset until you use it, meaning you need to use it NOW. Bloodspiller isn't like that and you can wait for a Hard Slash window sometimes since you should never be blood capped.