PF's exclude SCH made by other Healers

Why? We are still capable, and can do content even with changes? So what's the deal? I don't understand this mind-frame.
Pls explain so I can understand.

Edit:
Just wanted to add, that I see this in old content like Zurvan etc, things that a SCH can solo heal. So I don't understand why other Healer's feel that SCH should be excluded.

To be fair, much of this is down to a quirk in PF. If someone joins and then leaves a PF, it'll set that spot to the job they joined as. Personally I tend to join and ask if I think a job requirement is odd or unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

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I understand this. But when It is set to "WHM, AST" it is pretty blatant. Their intentions. (edit: And I am not talking about a SCH making the PF this is a WHM/AST) And I have leveled AST to join but would like to be able to do it on the class I enjoy.

Sometimes it's just because they want certain classes. They're allowed to do that. But often it's the dumb case of someone leaving and then that slot automatically becomes locked to the class that left. Seriously needs to be changed.
Just yesterday I saw a group only accepting AST/SCH. In fact, I've never seen a PF wanting WHM over SCH. Nice to hear about it for a change.

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Originally Posted by xNewbx

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Really wow? i've never seen a WHM get excluded lol! You should come to the primal servers. o/ But yes, I know people are allowed to do what they want with PF. I just wanted to know why they feel compelled to excluded a certain other job. I usually have to make the PF myself but yeah. oh wells

Ever since 3.0 came out when I make pf since I main AST I always only allow one ast because double ast is a pain pugging with cards overwritten etc etc. If another person joins as AST and I am currently in the party I either leave or change to another healer myself if I have one. -shrugs-

ppl have their preferences even though sometimes it may feel wrong.

it could be possible that an AST wants to play in nocturnal and only allows WHM / AST and force the AST who maybe joins to play in diurnal.

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Originally Posted by Tint

it could be possible that an AST wants to play in nocturnal and only allows WHM / AST and force the AST who maybe joins to play in diurnal.

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to this day I don't understand this mindset for AST. You can have a preference for style for AST, but why limit your ability to use your job to the fullest. ppl that main only one sect of ast strange.

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Originally Posted by FadingMoon

to this day I don't understand this mindset for AST. You can have a preference for style for AST, but why limit your ability to use your job to the fullest. ppl that main only one sect of ast strange.

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Some ASTs simply prefer one sect over the other. I prefer Nocturnal when I am doing 8-man content because I like the shields, and that's always been the case with me. Others prefer Diurnal. I know for Susano, I prefer Noct because I can shield whoever is going to be hit with the knockback and they won't be knocked back, which is extremely useful during the stack+churning since those with churning don't have much time to adjust. I've never encountered another Noct AST that does this.

Plus, some ASTs spec stats differently depending on the Sect they prefer. I stack Crit for crit shields because I prefer Noct. I've known some Diurnal ASTs that prioritize Piety. At the end of the day, it's all preference.

Mmh, this is a good point that I did not consider. It would make sense to exclude a SCH with an AST who mains Nocturnal stance. Unlike a Dicturnal Ast who can stack with a WHM it is harder for a Noc and SCH to stack abilities. So I can see why they might not want a SCH in the PT. o/ Thanks for the input. o/

It is so sad now that see how SE effort to 'balance' job turn out to be a discrimination in game.

Now it's hard to be in the end game party with SCH. I even leveled up my AST to make me relevant again in end game party.

C'mon SE. What have you done with SCH?

WHM has been excluded from literally every Zurvan EX party, among others, ever. I never did that fight as a result. WHMs have been excluded from static searches ever since AST got overbuffed, and want severely declined after AST was brought to par before that last round of unjust buffs that pushed them so much higher above the others, where they STILL are. And they never had any problems healing anything.

I see many, many lfm static recruitments explicitely excluding WHM in 4.0 already, and I doubt a party searching for 'AST and SCH', or 'we have AST and want a SCH' is only excluding WHM because they already have one when they clearly state it's different. Yes, it started already, and it will only get worse with the incomming, confirmed SCH buffs.

Really funny how WHM is always told it's fine... with a bleeding hole in its chest. But when one of the others gets a little scratch, it is as if the world is ending.

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Originally Posted by xNewbx

Just yesterday I saw a group only accepting AST/SCH. In fact, I've never seen a PF wanting WHM over SCH. Nice to hear about it for a change.

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Me, neither.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

WHM has been excluded from literally every Zurvan EX party, among others, ever.

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Im also from Shiva / Chaos Data Center. Never had issues joining with WHM or SCH. You are just blatantly overexaggerating. And since 4.0 i even see it pretty rarely to never...

Oh yea im sitting on 99 Susano and 69 Lakshmi Totems, so im doing enough PF's to say that~

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Originally Posted by Amaret

Im also from Shiva / Chaos Data Center. Never had issues joining with WHM or SCH. You are just blatantly overexaggerating. And since 4.0 i even see it pretty rarely to never...

Oh yea im sitting on 99 Susano and 69 Lakshmi Totems, so im doing enough PF's to say that~

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I don't know what times you are online, but the times I am online, I've rarely to nether seen a PF that didn't exclude WHM, so no, I'm not 'overexaggerating' (is that even a real word? Only know exaggerating). Except maybe those made by WHM... which again excluded WHM. And before you ask, I'm not only at some exotic time like late night, either, but at what is prime time on EU servers. Maybe you ment you never had trouble joining as SCH? Because rarely has the job been excluded from anything in the past.
I also didn't say I'm being constantly excluded from Susano or Lakshmi, though it is there at times so not only SCH 'struggle' with that. But following meta discussions and lfm threads on several Discords, the trend towards AST/SCH is already there and it's extremely concerning especially considering SCH will also be buffed soon.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

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While I cannot attest to the actions of those in party finder, I have never noticed any with-holdings of White Mages from the Party Finders on my server. Sorry to hear you're having such issues, come to Behemoth, there's plenty of spots for you.

Ah I didn't mean to stress anyone out. In my experience from Primal Servers, WHM is pretty much a strong desired class. I'm sorry for the bad experiences on your server Yuyu. But Sch is very undesired here. But with the buffs coming maybe PF will encourage people to consider SCH more o/

I've noticed a mammoth amount of White Mage/Astro groups going on my server. I raid with that combo myself, which is perfect, because I prefer Nocturnal Sect. I'm interested to see how it changes after the patch.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

WHM has been excluded from literally every Zurvan EX party, among others, ever. I never did that fight as a result. WHMs have been excluded from static searches ever since AST got overbuffed, and want severely declined after AST was brought to par before that last round of unjust buffs that pushed them so much higher above the others, where they STILL are. And they never had any problems healing anything.

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This behavior isn't related to whether a job is balanced, but whether a job is believed to be good or not. Once people start meme'ing on a job, the devs need to overbuff it (or ridiculously nerf the competitor) so it's acceptable again, which just results in another job becoming a meme.

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Originally Posted by Vulcwen

This behavior isn't related to whether a job is balanced, but whether a job is believed to be good or not. Once people start meme'ing on a job, the devs need to overbuff it (or ridiculously nerf the competitor) so it's acceptable again, which just results in another job becoming a meme.

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Most valid thing I've read on the forums to-date.

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Originally Posted by Vulcwen

This behavior isn't related to whether a job is balanced, but whether a job is believed to be good or not. Once people start meme'ing on a job, the devs need to overbuff it (or ridiculously nerf the competitor) so it's acceptable again, which just results in another job becoming a meme.

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And why do you tell me this? It got nothing to do with what I said, WHM didn't get overbuffed, either, (and neither should it be) so? I also understand the concept of believing something is a certain way, but that is also directly related to how good it is, too. And knowing and understanding this doesn't help me at all if others don't, so it's somewhat moot.

Here is the truth. People who exclude jobs in XPF are just bad players in-general.

I felt the same when I was AST back in Gordias, and yet I cleared everything on the job. So you're telling me since I had Thordan Ex farmed on this job I can't help you "clear" on it? Get out of here.

Many of us remember a certain WHM-main on Primal last tier that always excluded DRK from his Savage "clear" parties. If you swapped to it you would get blacklisted. He wasn't impressed with that job apparently. Of course took him well beyond echo months to clear A12S. That's the kind of player you end up becoming because of such, being talked about not being good.

People always say this and I've NEVER in game seen an example of it.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

People always say this and I've NEVER in game seen an example of it.

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Well, then.
http://imgur.com/a/pH4IY
http://imgur.com/a/pH4IY

This is an issue with the meta and people wanting to be carried by it.

As a WHM main I dealt with this all of Heavensward and ultimately never finished the Alexander raid because of it.

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Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

This is an issue with the meta and people wanting to be carried by it.

As a WHM main I dealt with this all of Heavensward and ultimately never finished the Alexander raid because of it.

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Really? I don't recall ever seeing the problem on Exodus then. Hell, I don't see people wanting the meta right now, just that you're able to clear it. It could be the time of day I'm on though, I'm usually doing this stuff from 9PM EST to around 2AM EST. Meaning 6PM to 11PM PST.

This isn't exactly surprising.

Again, SCH really doesn't bring much of anything to the party that AST doesn't do better already.

Sure, either can clear the content, but when you're given the choice to take either the SCH or the AST, is it really any surprise what the answer would be? Of course I would take the AST over the SCH if I HAD THE CHOICE. With PF, people do have the choice.

It's the same thing, though reversed when it came to AST in gordias savage. Literally years of AST buffs followed.

Why do people complain if you don't like it make your own PF lol

As a WHM, I'm not stupid enough to lock out SCH. Chain Strategem is extremely strong, and your mitigation is enough.
I do lock out the other WHM slot, because double WHM is a little stupid.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

As a WHM, I'm not stupid enough to lock out SCH. Chain Strategem is extremely strong, and your mitigation is enough.
I do lock out the other WHM slot, because double WHM is a little stupid.

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It's enough, but people prefer what's better if they can get it. It's not exactly stupid. That's your subjective opinion.

I do think it's in poor taste to exclude classes, but it's a very clear indicator that there's a blatant balance problem with predictable results, and I understand why class exclusion happens after playing mmos for 10 years.

The top 5 speed runs for susano ex and the top 4 speed runs for lakshmi all use sch and ast...sch can't be that bad.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

The top 5 speed runs for susano ex and the top 4 speed runs for lakshmi all use sch and ast...sch can't be that bad.

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SCH has very decent single target DPS, and chain Strategem, an incredibly strong skill when you look at how CRIT dependent most jobs are this expansion.

Compare that to WHMs personal DPS, and lilies....It just isn't appealing at all.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Really? I don't recall ever seeing the problem on Exodus then. Hell, I don't see people wanting the meta right now, just that you're able to clear it. It could be the time of day I'm on though, I'm usually doing this stuff from 9PM EST to around 2AM EST. Meaning 6PM to 11PM PST.

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It's definitely not a rampant issue like the WHM thing was for Alexander but I see a few each day.

However, it'll eventually get worse as these things tend to do.

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Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

It's definitely not a rampant issue like the WHM thing was for Alexander but I see a few each day.

However, it'll eventually get worse as these things tend to do.

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SCH will be fine after the buffs. It basically addresses everything but their MP issues. I'm more worried for WHM now. They seem so appealing because SCH in comparison wasn't good. Now that they're back up, we're looking at chain Strategem vs lilies, and that isn't going to end well.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

SCH will be fine after the buffs. It basically addresses everything but their MP issues. I'm more worried for WHM now. They seem so appealing because SCH in comparison wasn't good. Now that they're back up, we're looking at chain Strategem vs lilies, and that isn't going to end well.

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I don't care much for Lilies as a WHM player myself except in dungeons. Imo it's not even worth discussing because SE is content with little to no significance on the job gauge for WHM, just to keep its simple but effective class design.

Personal thoughts? WHM's healing is also as top notch as ever. No one can match WHM's various healing utilities and their powerful raw healing, making them a unique class imo. SCH's Chain Strategem is nice to tip the scales of the otherwise underwhelming class; it brings SCH a unique utility to the table and instead of competing for it, it's best to synergize with WHM / AST instead!

Right, on the topic? To AST players, learn both Diurnal or Nocturnal for adaptability if possible. But if they're stuck with Nocturnal, I guess it'd be fine. After all, they're only but one of many healers out there, so cheer up and be hopeful that you'll find a group that will accept you. <3

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Originally Posted by Lyrai_Celestine

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As a WHM main I'm good with Lilies.

I only wish Divine Benison wasn't locked behind them.

With the Thin Air, Presence of Mind, and Shroud of Saints (I refuse to call it Lucid Dreaming) we have an amazing trio of abilities when used together.

The MP regen alone with Thin Air and Shroud of Saints is worth bringing a WHM.

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Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

As a WHM main I'm good with Lilies.

I only wish Divine Benison wasn't locked behind them.

With the Thin Air, Presence of Mind, and Shroud of Saints (I refuse to call it Lucid Dreaming) we have an amazing trio of abilities when used together.

The MP regen alone with Thin Air and Shroud of Saints is worth bringing a WHM.

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You got that right~ Lucid Dreaming + Thin Air ensures your MP is back on high numbers no matter the intensity, which, by all means, I love SE for that, and the new skills are a welcome addition to our already good healing utilities.

I'd say the same for Divine Benison. It should be usable at all times because I could just use Divine Benison then Tetra, but not vice versa. It'll make a good QoL change.

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Originally Posted by Lyrai_Celestine

You got that right~ Lucid Dreaming + Thin Air ensures your MP is back on high numbers no matter the intensity, which, by all means, I love SE for that, and the new skills are a welcome addition to our already good healing utilities.

I'd say the same for Divine Benison. It should be usable at all times because I could just use Divine Benison then Tetra, but not vice versa. It'll make a good QoL change.

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What could solve this is a toggle for whether we want to or not use Lilies.

Make some toggle on a 1s cooldown like how Cleric Stance used to be.

(I know Cleric Stance was a 5s cooldown, I was just recommending a 1s.)