Where are the Raids??

I hear people talking about the new raid?? But Deltascape is just a series of primal type battles. Though fun and nostalgic, a raid from what I remember, needs multiple parties and takes an hour or so to do. How do they call this a raid when all you need is a 8 man party and few minutes of your time. I hope to see some more 24 man content in the future. Will that ever happen??

24 man raids happen every odd numbered patch. (4.1, 4.3 and 4.5) and will be 'Return to Ivalice'. 24mans are relatively easy, while 8 mans are where the challenge is at (Once the Savage version is released next week)

Officially there are two types of raids, one with 8 players and another called Alliance raids with 24 players. Although the alliance ones could be completed in under half an hour or less than that, but I do remember Dun Scaith definitely reaching the time limit when it first came out and players were wiping like nobodies business. But yep, just like Pence said the challenge lies with the 8 man content more than anything, esp Savage.

Thanks for the info, I still don't think they should be called raids as all you are doing is fighting a single mob and just feels like a boss fight. Nonetheless, I do look forward to the bigger raids. I'm far from the competitive best in slot person and just want to get to a level to where I can least clear any new content without much trouble. At the moment I'm 303 Item level and am doing duties to get the 310 gear and just did 1.0 and doing 1 dungeon or primal a day with my dailies as RL does not give me more than 2 hrs a day.

raid
rād/Submit
noun
1.
a sudden attack on an enemy by troops, aircraft, or other armed forces in warfare.
"a bombing raid"
synonyms: attack, assault, descent, blitz, incursion, sortie

The reason FFXIV raids are designed in this way is because trash mobs pose no benefit to anything int he game. They are useless to implement as many will just find ways to skip them to get into the boss battle. This allows us to get straight into the fights with having to waste time killign the same mobs over and over. 24 man designs are more raidlike however the more people you add to a fight the harder it is to tune its difficulty because you dont want 1 person to wipe 24 people (and it still happens in the 24 mans). I would like to see a 16 man mid tier raid seperate for 24mans easier tier and savages 8 man slug fest. Also the game desperately needs to add random drops from mobs in the overworld and in the dungeons. Its always exciting to see shiny stuff just get added to your inventory. RMT won't matter because it already happens and might they always find a way.

Think of the 4 "raids" as one raid split into 4 parts, with the trash removed (there might be a couple pulls here and there, like in A10/A11, but it seems they put those into the solo instances this time around) because no one likes trash mobs. This lets the raid work on only one specific boss if they want, without having to clear all the earlier bosses in the raid if they no longer need gear. Have all your loot from deltascape 1.0 for everyone in the raid? Just skip directly to 2.0, you've clearly proven you can handle 1.0 if everyone has every drop they need.

As has already been mentioned, we currently only have deltascape normal mode, with savage to be released in the next patch. Think of this as the story/casual mode, so that everyone who wants to can experience the story and get some small upgrades, and not feel left out. Deltascape Savage is going to be the "hard" version of the raid, with harder/more mechanics, etc.

The 24 man raids are pub queue moron festivals.

I assume you're new to the game. The 24-man raids come with the .1, .3, and .5 patches with the 8 man trial "raids" happening in initial, .2, and .4. The hardest content in the game, however, is Savage versions of the 8 man content. If you wonder why that is, you'd had to have been there for the likes of World of Darkness and Weeping City of Mhach when new.

I like Destiny bungies raid type, FFXIV need raids if Puzzles no only boss fights

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Ffxiv is not your typical "raid" 24 mans are casual nonsense. 8 mans are raids.

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Originally Posted by C0NNECTION_LOST

Thanks for the info, I still don't think they should be called raids as all you are doing is fighting a single mob and just feels like a boss fight. Nonetheless, I do look forward to the bigger raids. I'm far from the competitive best in slot person and just want to get to a level to where I can least clear any new content without much trouble. At the moment I'm 303 Item level and am doing duties to get the 310 gear and just did 1.0 and doing 1 dungeon or primal a day with my dailies as RL does not give me more than 2 hrs a day.

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In what raid, in any other mmo have you fought 2 bosses simultaneously? Adds do not count as they are not a boss.

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Originally Posted by MorriganSunbrave

I like Destiny bungies raid type, FFXIV need raids if Puzzles no only boss fights

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Destiny raids work because they have checkpoints, though O4S actually started using those if I'm not mistaken. Deltascape savage feel more like harder EX primals than anything, and honestly that's fine.

The 24 mans feel like actual raids (like Destiny) because you're going through an area fighting mini bosses and main bosses with their own mechanics and such. Too bad the gear isn't always worth it unless it's for an alt/glamour, it's there to upgrade the tome pieces.

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Originally Posted by C0NNECTION_LOST

Thanks for the info, I still don't think they should be called raids as all you are doing is fighting a single mob and just feels like a boss fight.

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Players call them raids because they're 8 man content. 24 man raids are technically 8 man content given that you can queue as a max of 8.

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

Destiny raids work because they have checkpoints, though O4S actually started using those if I'm not mistaken.

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As far as I know, Diabolos in Dun Scaith was the first boss to use this sort-of checkpoint system. Wiping after the first phase would keep Diabolos in the post-phase 1 form.

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Originally Posted by LathusWHM

In what raid, in any other mmo have you fought 2 bosses simultaneously? Adds do not count as they are not a boss.

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I could really blow this out of the water and make a list two dozen long, but I won't...

The Rathe council in Everquest 1 (and source of the MMO term "council fight" which is a raid boss that consists of many individual target-able bosses. There's literally a term for what you are describing).
As early as Everquest 2's first expansion (perhaps early...but this is the earliest instance I'm aware of) there is a type of fight that involves 2 bosses and keeping them at roughly the same health. The first raid of Alexander in XIV is similar

That said, I don't think the number of bosses in the "boss encounter" matters to the OPs original point. You could easily have trials that involve multiple bosses as well.

The fundamental point is, there is nothing within the duty itself that differentiates an 8-man raid from a Trial. You are not "raiding" a "space". This has gotten worse with every expansion release. Fundamentally, I blame the fact that they feel the need to make the 8man raid's separately queueable. As long as that is a fundamental design point, you'll never get away with the "raids feel like trials" problem.

(This isn't an actual argument point, but I'll point it out since it's kinda funny. Not only are we not "raiding" deltascape, we're literally invited/threatened to participate. )

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Players call them raids because they're 8 man content.

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They call them raids as they (Savage) are the hardest current content in the game.

Also, the game classifies them as "raids". If i look in the duty finder, theyre on the "raids" tab. So thats what they are. Raids.

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Originally Posted by LathusWHM

In what raid, in any other mmo have you fought 2 bosses simultaneously? Adds do not count as they are not a boss.

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OP wasn't talking about fighting two bosses together (though it's called a council fight when an encounter has more than one boss in it.) Other MMOs structure all their raids to be like the 24 man raids. If you come from WoW and are told the Omega is a raid, well, it just doesn't feel like a raid. There you clear trash, kill boss, clear trash, kill boss, etc. until it's finished.

It used to be that the raids had trash in them.

Even savage tier had it's first floor of Alexander have a Faust that required a certain DPS check to be met to even get a look at the boss. Unfortunately, it was tuned so tightly that most people couldn't pass, and they've done away with the trash mobs.

Technically, Deltascape as a whole is the raid, not four separate raids. But can you imagine how obnoxious it would be to have to break through the earlier, already cleared bosses that aren't going to give loot every time you time out?

There's a reason Savage forces you to the start come every reset.