Square Enix needs to fix cooldowns used too late

Tired of using an oGCD and it not doing anything because to the game it was used too late, yet they still go on cooldown anyway.

Fix it, for the love of the Twelve FIX IT ALREADY!

Only ever had that happen on AST with redraw. God it was SUPER irritating. Pretty sure they fixed it in a recent hotfix.

Edit: You mean things like tetra when the tank or DPS dies anyway??? Yeah, very annoying.

Make sure you post this in the bug reports if you haven't already. This has been a reoccurring problem since essentially beta.

It still happens with abilities like Benediction or Living Dead, and other similar abilities, including those with shorter cooldowns. You never really notice it when using an attack oGCD like Assassination, but then again they should just make attacks cancel when enough damage has been done to slay the target anyway.

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Originally Posted by Rhindas

Make sure you post this in the bug reports if you haven't already. This has been a reoccurring problem since essentially beta.

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The last time I posted anything in bug reports it was disregarded. If it's been known to them since then though then the report would likely not matter.

Don't be so complacent. If you're willing to post here in the incorrect forum, then you should be willing to post it in the correct forum to get it addressed. If you're upset they disregarded it, then they're definitely going to do it in this one.

Also, disregarded how ? Was it put it in Insufficient Info? You have to use the sticky format or they won't even read it (and if you DID use the sticky format, post it again, they have someone who is a trigger finger on moving posts to that section). Did they put it as Duplicate Bugs? Then someone before you posted it and they're aware of it. Did a GM reply and ask for more information? Sometimes they close the thread after asking that question for who knows what reason, but then you just make a new thread with more info.

They almost never reply or follow up on bug reports, so you're not likley going to get any feedback about it no matter where you post it. You just have to wait until the next patch/hotfix to see if it was addressed. Again, this problem crops up somewhat regularly, so they're probably already aware of it, but post it anyway so they can file it so their team can see it. The bug report team does not check this forum, they only receive reports on the bugs in Accepted Bugs.

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Originally Posted by Rhindas

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It's because it's how the abilities are coded, to work server side, instead of client side. They know it's a problem already, but so far, they've only really fixed it with Jutsu commands, even though so many other skills are messed up too (Bene, Hallowed, Living, etc.)

It was a different issue i posted about before, which was sent to insufficient info. I find it stupid that they automatically send proper info there if that format isn't followed honestly, and as you said it does about as much good to post it there as it does here, especially if someone already filed it before. I do not believe Square Enix ignores this forum section, which is why I put it here where I know they won't just discard it. Besides, this is honestly more of a request than a report. A bug as old as this one, how could they NOT know about it?

Oh I know how it works. Been Arcanist since beta, and I've lost many Aetherflow stacks to this. It was kind of like "you can't use your GCDs too quickly or the server won't 'pick them up'" so you couldn't weave them very well. They fixed the worst of that early in the game's life, but then NIN showed the masses that it was still there, lurking in the shadows.

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And it doesn't matter if you find it stupid. It's the required format. It's no different than any other company with standard reports. It helps streamline the process for the bug report team which saves them time. And sure they have devs report here, but if someone does reply to this, they're going to tell you the same thing I did: post it there.

I never had a problem with this until they moved the server. Now I have to wait a bit longer before repeating a skill (say ruin 3 on SMN) and have to start a lot sooner for ... well anything really useful like Tetra on WHM. I think this has gone on since beta it was just the other coast that had to deal with it and now East coasters are getting a taste.

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Originally Posted by Rhindas

Oh I know how it works. Been Arcanist since beta, and I've lost many Aetherflow stacks to this. It was kind of like "you can't use your GCDs too quickly or the server won't 'pick them up'" so you couldn't weave them very well. They fixed the worst of that early in the game's life, but then NIN showed the masses that it was still there, lurking in the shadows.

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And it doesn't matter if you find it stupid. It's the required format. It's no different than any other company with standard reports. It helps streamline the process for the bug report team which saves them time. And sure they have devs report here, but if someone does reply to this, they're going to tell you the same thing I did: post it there.

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Oh I'm not expecting a reply, that would be folly lol

Long as it's acknowledged it still exists that's all I could ask for. As you said, it would then be a waiting game.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

I never had a problem with this until they moved the server. Now I have to wait a bit longer before repeating a skill (say ruin 3 on SMN) and have to start a lot sooner for ... well anything really useful like Tetra on WHM. I think this has gone on since beta it was just the other coast that had to deal with it and now East coasters are getting a taste.

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Hm, Like Ruin IV activating but not casting? That is a similar but different problem, which can absolutely be a symptom of the new ping rates. The client side is showing you activated a proc, but the server hasn't picked it up yet. This happens with things like Firestarter, Thundercloud, even something like Swiftcast. The major difference being you didn't lose the proc or ability, you just have to either wait till the next cast or interrupt and recast and it'll work.

In Tetra's case, if the cooldown is greyed out and put on cooldown despite that it didn't actually give you the effect, then you have the original problem at the same time.

Its intentional, a lot of the oh crap buttons dont give the effects until after the animation. They have changed skills in the past to give an effect at the start of the animation. It is simply a design choice.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Its intentional, a lot of the oh crap buttons dont give the effects until after the animation. They have changed skills in the past to give an effect at the start of the animation. It is simply a design choice.

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It would be a poor one then.

Had a similar issue with Hallowed Ground. Used hallowed...still died. Hallowed was on CD when I revived. Super annoying. I don't mind that I used it too late to survive the attacks. But if I was too late to survive the attacks, then the ability should not have been used.

Buttons like Hallowed Ground and Benediction aren't supposed to be used at the last second, this isn't that kind of game. Learn the fight, learn the stress points, learn how to use the buttons correctly. It isn't up to Squeenix to change their entire game to cover for your inability to learn your job.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Buttons like Hallowed Ground and Benediction aren't supposed to be used at the last second, this isn't that kind of game. Learn the fight, learn the stress points, learn how to use the buttons correctly. It isn't up to Squeenix to change their entire game to cover for your inability to learn your job.

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If it were simply a case of last-second usage then there would be merit to what you say, but latency/lag and having to heal others in the case of Benediction and Tetra, or being mid-cast with another spell can all delay it, and as Nabian said it should just not use at all if used too late, although I'd understand if the heals just used on the caster instead, but if the caster is the target it should just not use.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

If it were simply a case of last-second usage then there would be merit to what you say, but latency/lag and having to heal others in the case of Benediction and Tetra, or being mid-cast with another spell can all delay it, and as Nabian said it should just not use at all if used too late, although I'd understand if the heals just used on the caster instead, but if the caster is the target it should just not use.

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Every single problem you're describing is because you're trying to hit the button with only a sliver of health left. Again, not Squeenix's job to change the game to cover for your inability to learn your job.

Hallowed and Bene seem to be longstanding adamant upholders of their animations coming first. Like Valkyrie said, a lot of abilities don't activate till after the animation, but they've changed quite a few of those over time, mostly ones specifically used for emergencies and weaving, but these two abilities have stood fast...

I can wait till the last second to use Lustrate and it will activate and save the person, for example. It's not anywhere near resembling good practice to do so, but I can do it.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Every single problem you're describing is because you're trying to hit the button with only a sliver of health left. Again, not Squeenix's job to change the game to cover for your inability to learn your job.

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Or perhaps you are thinking too shallow to understand what I am saying? You can't control lag/latency, and some situations are dire enough you have more than one thing to deal with as a healer and cannot immediately pop off that oGCD when you need to. Last second you say? More like last 3 seconds I say, the first 1 or 2 of which you are busy helping another party member.

My point is not everyone deliberately waits until the last second, or is incapable of doing their job. It's called circumstances and those cannot always be controlled.

Lustrate works better mostly due to it hitting part way into the animation, and the animation and CD being very short. But Lustrate is less our "Oh shit" heal and more our big heal. We're expected to use it more often than Benediction by a long shot. Even more than Tetra.

Benediction being an 100% heal has to have caveats, it being animation lock and long cooldown. Same with Hallowed.

Working as intended.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Lustrate works better mostly due to it hitting part way into the animation, and the animation and CD being very short. But Lustrate is less our "Oh shit" heal and more our big heal. We're expected to use it more often than Benediction by a long shot. Even more than Tetra.

Benediction being an 100% heal has to have caveats, it being animation lock and long cooldown. Same with Hallowed.

Working as intended.

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So basically we should lose the ability to use oGCDs for the duration of their cooldown if they get used too late, even if the reason is beyond our control? Yeah, anyone would be foolish to not approve of that. /endsarcasm

I really like when I try to get a raiton off and fuma shuriken happens instead despite me using 2 mudras. I've even seen it play both the raiton and shuriken animations at the same time....

I think sometimes auto-attacks cause it to bug out.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I really like when I try to get a raiton off and fuma shuriken happens instead despite me using 2 mudras. I've even seen it play both the raiton and shuriken animations at the same time....

I think sometimes auto-attacks cause it to bug out.

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That one is actually a visual thing only. Like in your case even though it looks like Fuma it was actually Raiton. I've had times where I used Huton but the animation was Raiton lol

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Buttons like Hallowed Ground and Benediction aren't supposed to be used at the last second, this isn't that kind of game. Learn the fight, learn the stress points, learn how to use the buttons correctly. It isn't up to Squeenix to change their entire game to cover for your inability to learn your job.

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Please stop defending poor design that makes the gameplay clunky with "git gud". Bio is another example that suffer from such poor design and the reason "why" is simply "because" when almost every other ACN DoT applied instantly.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

So basically we should lose the ability to use oGCDs for the duration of their cooldown if they get used too late, even if the reason is beyond our control? Yeah, anyone would be foolish to not approve of that. /endsarcasm

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Latency is one thing.

Bad strategy is another entirely.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Latency is one thing.

Bad strategy is another entirely.

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My point exactly.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Buttons like Hallowed Ground and Benediction aren't supposed to be used at the last second, this isn't that kind of game. Learn the fight

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Wait, I'm not meant to use Benediction when my tank is low on health? Sorry I'll just use it at 50% instead since I can't wait to give it the full benefit.

Also, let's look at Living Dead, another skill that suffers this same issue of needing to finish the animation before it activates. Now what's one of Living Dead's issues as a life saving cooldown? Oh. Right. It doesn't do ANYTHING if you die, meaning you would want to use it when you're about to die. If I don't use it last second, how do I know it'll get any use?

Also, let's pretend these animations are intended, and we really aren't meant to use them there. So why is the player punished for trying? If I Benediction, and it doesn't heal, couldn't I get the cooldown back? Why waste it entirely? That's not fun.

Sometimes I oGCD hallowed ground to cheat a mechanic right before it goes off but I die then the effect triggers.

I think it is a latency and animation delay issue not a bug.

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

Sometimes I oGCD hallowed ground to cheat a mechanic right before it goes off but I die then the effect triggers.

I think it is a latency and animation delay issue not a bug.

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Latency and animation delay tend to be the factor that causes you to waste an oGCD. All I'm saying is the ability should not go on cooldown if this happens.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

It's because it's how the abilities are coded, to work server side, instead of client side. They know it's a problem already, but so far, they've only really fixed it with Jutsu commands, even though so many other skills are messed up too (Bene, Hallowed, Living, etc.)

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I can confirm that it still happens to Ninjitsu from time to time. I go to do a Raiton and then go "???" as nothing happened and Ninjitsu is back on CD.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

even if the reason is beyond our control?

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It's within your control. Don't wait until it's too late to use your abilities.

This is very frustrating especially now Benediction is one of the few instants WHM has in the new PVP system. I find Tetra more responsive than Benediction (slightly shorter animation?) and Lustrate is very reliable in comparison. With the amount of yo-yoing that HP bars do in the new PVP, I'd really like this to be looked at properly at some point. I think I lost the spell, the player and the cooldown five consecutive times in one FL match earlier and pressing it a second earlier wouldn't have made a jot of difference in that environment; way to make me feel weak.

This happens to me like 30% of the time. Like i use swiftcast followed by a slow cast raise. -_-

Must be my 210ms latency.

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Originally Posted by Rhindas

If you're willing to post here in the incorrect forum, then you should be willing to post it in the correct forum to get it addressed.

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The Bug forum is the incorrect forum, since SE has said several times that this issue is "working as intended". As this issue is a complaint about how the game is supposed to work, and not an actual bug, it belongs here in General Discussion.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Buttons like Hallowed Ground and Benediction aren't supposed to be used at the last second, this isn't that kind of game. Learn the fight, learn the stress points, learn how to use the buttons correctly. It isn't up to Squeenix to change their entire game to cover for your inability to learn your job.

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But it is up to SE to make a fun and entertaining game. If Hallowed Ground isn't meant to be used as an Oh Shit button, that's fine, but the game shouldn't punish you for attempting to use it by going on a 7 minute cooldown. An ability that goes on cooldown but doesn't work is just bad game design, any way you slice it.