Melee Positional Attacks

In most MMOs, I play ranged, but thought I'd give Samurai or Ninja a go. I like both, but absolutely hate the positional requirements. I have tanks that often move the boss just as I am getting my attack off and then I lose the positional bonus.

Positionals just seem to be adding complexity for the sake of complexity. They don't make the jobs more fun for me, quite the contrary. I'll probably just play my Red Mage or Bard and avoid the hassle.

Obviously, this is subjective, but I'm curious if those who play a lot of melee jobs actually like this aspect of the jobs? Other MMOs I've played that had this sort of thing actually intentionally reduced positional requirements, as they were not liked by the player base.

Really, I'm just curious, because I don't see a lot of discussion about this.

I mean, it's the DPS niche. It's what ultimately separates bad/decent dps from great dps.

Same with casters, healers and tanks, they all have their own kits that distinguish the good from the bad.

Deal with it or change your job

I'm not really a big fan of it honestly for the reason the OP mentioned, the tank usually moves or they are big pulls and then I'm not in control much. I usually play healer main but tank second. If I dps I'm usually a mage but I do like to play melee from time to time and that part of it is a bit annoying to me. But again coming from someone who doesn't play Melee often, who knows, maybe I would if that part of it was different. Not saying that would be better but it would probably be more fun for me

At least we don't have situations like pre-2.45 DRG where you were REQUIRED to do the positional or the combo would prematurely end along with not activating any buffs or debuffs. DRG was easily a close case of being nonviable if a fight didn't let you do rear positionals, like Leviathan HM/EX when the tail was just front/flank instead of rear/flank.

I'm neither a fan nor a dissenter. It was a mechanic decision SE made to make DPS a more complex role, and that idea I agree with. Far too often in other MMO's DPS jobs boil down to static rotations or priority rotations, many of which are easily learned in a short period of time. Positionals add an element to the job that requires situational awareness and reactive decision making. I don't always enjoy them, but they've gone a long ways towards making the impact of them smoother.

I actually find FFXIV one of the few MMO's that make a DPS class challenging. It's a nice change of pace. Now on the exact note of positionals, yes it is very irritating when you miss them. But at the same time, it gives the DPS player a difficulty curve that is rewarded for excelling in. From a similar perspective, I feel that they also give ranged classes far more to think about then many MMO's...I have to pay attention to whats going on in most boss fights on my ranged classes in this game, something that doesn't happen in most MMO's.

On a slightly different note: I personally think that this is part of the counter-balance to having such a horridly long GCD...you simply have more stuff going on to pay attention to inbetween skill uses.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

At least we don't have situations like pre-2.45 DRG where you were REQUIRED to do the positional or the combo would prematurely end along with not activating any buffs or debuffs. DRG was easily a close case of being nonviable if a fight didn't let you do rear positionals, like Leviathan HM/EX when the tail was just front/flank instead of rear/flank.

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I remember that. I leveled a DRG in 2.x ... those were dark days for the empire...

One of things they did do right with the positionals in 3.x + was to at least make then only mildy punishing (the monk may still be pretty harsh with the positionals...don't know don't play one.)

They keep you somewhat active and helps you not falling asleep.
The only downside is that you might pop a vein in stormblood. Because they decided they would have all the bosses being spinning tops and True North being on a 150s cd x'D

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Originally Posted by Temjiu

(the monk may still be pretty harsh with the positionals...don't know don't play one.)

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Missing a single positional isn't a huge deal on monk, and it's pretty much always better to hit a GCD than to delay it to get a positional off. The thing with Monk is that our two non-positional skills, Touch of Death and Fracture, were removed for SB. So *everything* that's no an AoE is a positional now, and if for some reason you can't do them (like certain stack mechanics, or bosses spinning like douchebags, or standing inside walls, etc.) then it can be mildly vexing. Not a huge problem by any means, though.

On the fights where positionals don't matter, like Royal Menagerie phase 3, I find myself still moving side to side simply because *oh my god* are melee boring without positionals.

I actually like positionals. I think they add a third dimension to melee rotations and I think it makes sense for melee to pay attention to their position and movement in a fight. It's makes combat feel like a hybrid between the usual tab targeting MMO system and action combat like TERA or single play action games.

It's one of the reasons I mained MNK for most of the game.

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Originally Posted by Temjiu

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See that's exactly how I feel except I don't like when I'm not in control of my own failures. Like if I mess up something then I'll take the dps loss happily but if I take a dps loss because the tank moved the monster or someone took aggro and the monster rotated it's super annoying because it's not my fault.
I like that there's complexity in melee jobs with possitionals but I want to be good because I'm good or be bad because I suck, not kuz someone else sucks, or just that some unexpected happens.
To be fair it's a double edged sword, if everything went as expected all the time it would be boring but I still want to be in control of my own dps 100% of the time

Personally, I love positionals. It's part of why I mained Monk for three years. It's an added layer of complexity to encourage making the most of your mobility being granted by virtue of being a melee DPS. It's also a fun thing to strive towards optimizing for greater reward while dodging things in each fight.

Casters have to move a lot and it affect their dps
Bard/Machinist have a weak dps cause they are support dps roles
Melee have positionals and Ocd skills roll to compensate a little bit for it

I love positional. Please don't take them away from my Monk. Also OP you can often anticipate the boss turning even before they do by watching your tanks movement or the ability the boss is casting that will require it to turn ect. With experience I have found I can often play 1 step ahead and anticipate the boss turning and not lose my positionals, which leads to more satisfy gameplay.

Leave positional alone please. :-P

A good tank will not only keep aggro, but also keep the mob(s) positioned accordingly. Depending on the fight, repositioning may well be needed, but the party should be aware of this, assuming it's not their first time in and they didn't do research first. That said... you got your bad tanks as well as dps that clearly don't care if they get aggro or not and fail to use abilities that lower their enmity generation. In cases like that, you just have to adapt and do what you can.

Melee is pretty much knowing the fight before hand, or figuring out how to adjust if the tank decides spinning it is hilarious for some reason. That's just how it is in XIV, and for now I like it, but I've never had tanks randomly turn a boss. AoE you can't really help though, mobs are going to move and there's very little you can do about it.

I posted this in the true north thread and I'll repost it here. I'd rather see positional abilities join bow mage, gun mage, and abilities like fracture in the garbage where they belong.

I was really disappointed they stubbornly decided to stick with them, hopefully they realize sooner or later that positionals don't add complexity, they're just unnecessary and obtuse and put them in bin.

I hâte positional but I think its an interesting mechanic. However, I wish not all melee would require it. There should be one melee without positional.

I don't mind positionals, what I do mind is that every melee uses positionals. (even SAM does if you want to max it out through kenki generation) It really feels monotonous like this, hence why I don't usually bother with melee at all. They are more annoying than complex honestly. A tank slightly turn a boss to avoid an avoidable cleave, or the boss can only be attacked from one side, or turns around unexpectedly then you are SOL. that isn't fun, that is an annoyance.

Positionals can probably seem unnecessary at first if you are used to other roles, but it is actually what keeps the melee jobs interesting, keeping you on your toes and being alert.

Check out those same jobs in potd, where positionals are removed, and your attention will begin to dull and wane after awhile.