I finally was able to go back to the game yesterday and immediately I jumped to my main job; Bard.
After analyzing its action and skill changes, I proposed the following opening for bard.
Lv 70;
--Foe Requiem
Song ( I prefer to use Minuet first )
--Straight Shot
Battle Voice
Raging Strike
--Stormbite
Barrage
Empyreal Arrow
--Caustic Bite
Bloodletter
Sidewinder
--Heavy Shot
Perfect Pitch (If you use Minuet and it procs) or Bloodletter (if you use ballad)
--> Iron Jaws when Battle Voice and Raging Strike is almost over.
And then start the filler and rotation with these guidelines;
1. Align Raging Strike (80s) and Barrage (90s) cooldown. Then you can also align it with Battle voice (180s) for every 2 Raging Strike
2. Only weave 2 abilities between each GCD (Songs are oGCD except for foe).
3. Use Sidewinder and Empy on CD, and BL every time it refreshes under ballad or on CD.
4. Keep your songs uptime 100% (2% crit buff for the entire party for the whole duration of the fight).
5. Don't forget to Iron Jaws to refresh your tics.
6. When you have straighter shot proc, don't use it immediately. Replace Heavy Shot with Refuigent Arrows until your straight shot effect needs to be refreshed.
For Lv. 60 Openning, It's not much difference. You'll just be using windbite and poisonous bite.
Conditional Skills :
1. The Warden's Paean - Used to be for berserk. I am not sure how to use this optimally yet.
2. Troubadour - For conditional. Your safest bet is to use it with ballad (15% hp to all allies)
3. Nature's Minne - Need to coordinate with healers.
Optional Skills for PVE
Must have : Tactician, Refresh
Good to have : Palisade, Invigorate, Second Wind
All the grazes are basically PVP stuff. And you are not the one responsible for the stun job ;).
Pelloton, completely useless, unless you are running around RPing
Well, so those are my opinions. I haven't devised a way to weave in potion there, but i'm open to suggestion. Cheers and have fun.
Bard Openning
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07-06-2017, 01:07 PMchrissunBard Openning
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07-06-2017, 02:16 PMFateAudax
Wouldn't it be better to keep Barrage for Refulgent Arrow procs?
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07-06-2017, 02:52 PMchrissun
For barrage, In the opening, I'm not willing to wait for straighter shot procs because it only triggers when I start using heavy shot. It's cooldown time wasted if I wait for refulgent.
However, in the subsequent barrage cd, I sometime save my staighter shot proc when raging and barrage is almost up.
But, I prefer not to wait for proc to use Raging+barrage even after the openning. Well, I don't like wasting cooldown time @.@ -
07-06-2017, 03:44 PMMuseTraveller
Refresh after foe req will give slightly longer foe times. :)
I'd keep barrage for Ref Arrow, unless it doesn't proc by the time Raging Strikes is to fall off, then I'd combo it with Emp Arrow. -
07-06-2017, 06:58 PMFuriousFor your own personal DPS it's better not to apply a song until both your dots are up (since the first song you play is likely your highest dps song, you don't want to clip its uptime with no potential procs). However, that means ~3gcds with no 2% crit buff for the group.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissun
Using barrage with raging strikes is obviously good, but more importantly don't delay raging strikes so it starts overlapping with the wrong song. Generally you want raging strikes to line up exactly after you put up minuet (since you are almost always going to be using a pitch perfect exactly as it drops to use the last of the charges). Barrage is a 90 second cooldown but it's never going to be used exactly at 90 seconds, reality is that you will delay it by atleast a few seconds every time waiting for a straighter shot proc or empyrial arrow to come up. You'll lose a lot of raging strikes time if you delay it for barrage.
Don't delay barrage too much waiting for refulgent. I basically wait for the next empyreal arrow cooldown and that's it. It's a lot of potential potency but you can be waiting upward of 20 seconds easily without a straight shot proc (and pushing barrage further and further away from raging strikes).
Using sidewinder on cooldown is fine, but it's ok to delay it slightly (it's only a dps loss if it loses you a cast during the fight, and with a cooldown of 60 seconds you have a lot of leighway on that).
Using empyrial arrow on cooldown is the goal, but sometimes you need to delay. It's more important to use bloodletter first inside ballad, for example, and pitch perfect at 3 stacks in minuet.
Keeping song uptime 100% is definitely the goal, but taking it one step further, you have 10 seconds of overlap in song cooldown that you want to capitalise on. Almost always this means clipping 10 second of army's paeon (3 songs have a 90 second duration, songs have an 80 second cooldown). Army's paeon is potentially stronger than minuet only in very high target sustained aoe.
To take iron jaws usage one step further, it is ok to clip it significantly early to snapshot buffs. How early depends on the amount of buffs. A full duration iron jaw + refresh with or without raging strikes costs upward of 110 potency; leaving a full dot duration without straight shot will cost you 1-2 song procs on average. It's hard to give a catch-all answer as to when to refresh, but broadly speaking the answer is always refresh unbuffed dots with buffed ones, as late into the buff duration as possible.
Always use straighter shot on refulgent unless straight shot refresh is your next gcd.
Peloton is great for dungeons. I typically take palisade, refresh, tactician, invigorate, and swap between peloton and second wind. The caveat is that if there is a stun required it absolutely is your job to stun if needed, as it is everyone else's. -
07-06-2017, 07:00 PMLavena
Barrage with the first Empy is not good, better wait for refulgent arrow proc oder use it with ur second Empy while trickattack and other buffs are still on u.
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07-06-2017, 11:11 PMKDSilver
For the barrage + Refulgent Arrow :
Personally, I wait until the second empy arrow.
If I have no proc, Empy + Barrage. -
07-07-2017, 06:59 AMKaiSunstrider
Battle voice doesn't buff us, so using IJ to try and snap shot it is not advantageous.
Dots are applied first to get extra ticks during minuet followed by SS into IJ to snap shot SS and other applied party buffs like Lit/CS/embowlden as most people dont put up their buffs for a few gcds into the fight.
Barrage is held for RA unless you're incredibly unlucky and don't get a proc before emp arrow is back.
Typically BV is held until after you get BL and Emp on CD. That is personal preference but same reason as 4th gcd IJ. Stacking the buffs for other people is a great thing.
There are already well written guides and logs to show a lot of this, idk why the need to try and reinvent the wheel? -
07-07-2017, 08:28 AMchrissunCan you provide me with a link to the guides? I've been having difficulties myself finding a good one. That's why I tried to create my own opener and opened this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiSunstrider
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07-07-2017, 12:16 PMShunyenope. There is absolutely no reason for bard's to ever take stun in any situation considering every tank has a built in stun and the ability to grab a role stun as well. not to mention we would have to run into melee range to use it.Quote:
The caveat is that if there is a stun required it absolutely is your job to stun if needed, as it is everyone else's.
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07-07-2017, 01:16 PMFuriousThe built in stun that each tank has breaks combos and costs damage, their role stun is the same as ours. Take paladin, as an example: In a fight or flight rotation they need to do goring > royal > royal > goring into ogcd requiescat to maximise dps. If they need to use an on GCD stun, even if it didn't break combo, it would mean missing one goring and requiescat under fight or flight, for a potency loss of over 300 potency (that is if they have to stun at any time during the fight or flight, which is 25 seconds out of every 60). Similarly, if they need to stun during requiescat (12 seconds out of every 60), they lose 20% damage from a cast of holy spirit for ~90 potency lost. Neither of these even consider the impact of losing the GCD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunye
For them to take the ogcd ability means they lose another role ability, and tanks have many mandatory picks. Provoke is basically mandatory, Rampart is basically mandatory, then you have convalescence, anticipation, reprisal, and shirk. In a party they don't need shirk, in a raid they probably drop convalescence or anticipation. In all cases, dropping an ability for the stun means losing a damage avoidance ability and less safe aoe pulling or boss tanking.
Bard has zero downtime on mobility so running into melee range is almost never an issue. Second wind is a heal, but it isn't a particularly great one and is on a very long timer. If you need a stun then dropping second wind is very likely to be inconsequential. -
07-07-2017, 01:42 PMAuroroNoirebard has way too many things to be managing already as it is. i picked up the head graze ability for silence, but I'm definitely not going to be bothering with stunning enemies when melee and tanks should be the ones doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunye
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07-07-2017, 02:26 PMDrakeos
http://i.imgur.com/am2YDJI.png << Better
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07-08-2017, 01:10 AMKaiSunstriderGot it. Drakeos posted a decent flow chart. Outside of it, best damage comes from knowing when to snap shot (clipping early) and when to sit on your current dots. I snap shot almost every time I get a new balance and at end unless I already have a balance/raging buffed set. And I almost never trade crit snap shots (CS/Lit) for damage snaps. I'm sure there is a threshold though depending on song. Embowlden +balance + raging would probably be better than Lit in AP since at 4 stacks you gain nothing, but I really don't know that breaking point.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissun
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07-08-2017, 01:54 AMFurious
.....................
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07-08-2017, 06:48 AMShunyei'm not sure what game you are playing but paladin's job is to tank. And i can guarantee that a 360 potency attack from a paladin does significantly less than any attack from my bard. (ok just tested it for you, my 314 paladin vs my 316 bard, straight shot which is my filler did over 100 damage more than my paladin's royal authority despite only being a 100 potency attack. 2200 average straight shot, 2000-2100 average royal authority) that was also with fight or flight up from my paladin, and zero buffs up on my bard. Your arguement holds no water because despite having a higher potency the attack has significantly lower multipliers on the paladin.Quote:
Take paladin, as an example: In a fight or flight rotation they need to do goring > royal > royal > goring into ogcd requiescat to maximise dps.
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07-08-2017, 09:21 PMFuriousThe paladin's stun is on-gcd, interrupts 3-ability combos, and causes abilities to fall outside of buffed states. Their off-gcd stun causes them to lose an important defensive ability that allows them to take less damage, whether doing big aoe pulls in dungeons or tanking bosses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunye
Your stun causes you to lose.. nothing. A 2 minute moderate self-heal. You don't lose potency by using an ogcd stun, or at the very most you MIGHT push back one ogcd ability by 1 second. You have no combo abilities to interrupt and even if you did, your stun is ogcd and wouldn't interrupt them. Besides niche cases using an ogcd stun will never cause you to lose damage (unless you aren't good at managing your ogcd cooldowns).
Your argument holds no water because it is stupid. I listed the potencies not to compare with you as a bard, but to outline how much damage they lose of their own. It would be stupid to think that I was trying to say that the pld potencies are equal to bard potencies, because the bard stun does not cause you to lose potency. To spell it out for you, imagine yourself losing 1.2 refulgent arrows worth of damage (as a percentage of your own total damage) every time you have to stun.
It's kind of a silly argument in general thus far, since there have been no mandatory stuns so far in stormblood anyway.