To the DPS META and please be reasonable with arguments

DO NOT EXPECT HEALERS AND TANKS TO DPS!!! That is not their role. Tanks are the meat shields that hold the aggro so that the boss doesn't decide to try eat the beatsticks that you are, and healers generally make sure everyone is topped off and provides some group buffs to help with DPS and damage mitigation. If the boss is like 10% or 5%HP expect both tanks and maybe 1 healer to DPS to burn boss down.


EDIT: For you STR tanks that may or may not lurking on DPS forums, this also directed at you... You know who you are... Also if you guys communicate with your group to reach an understanding of what to do in fights you know how to do good for you.

To be fair, there's a lot of downtime as a healer so you can dps during those times

That and tanks already add to the dps meta, simply by holding aggro or OTing proper adds to group dps. Why is this even here? Its not us who told them to do this, especially tanks back in second coil, this is there choice.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

DO NOT EXPECT HEALERS AND TANKS TO DPS!!! That is not their role. Tanks are the meat shields that hold the aggro so that the boss doesn't decide to try eat the beatsticks that you are, and healers generally make sure everyone is topped off and provides some group buffs to help with DPS and damage mitigation. If the boss is like 10% or 5%HP expect both tanks and maybe 1 healer to DPS to burn boss down.

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Don't tell me how to live my life!!

*runs off sobbing*

Guess now I know who I should blame if we fail a dps check lol

You don't pay my sub! Healers and tanks -should- dps, it's not like there's anything else to do during bosses. Everything's too easy now!

People aren't asking tanks and healers to DPS, people are asking them to use their downtime and surplus resources in an efficient manner.

If you can find a way to do that without dealing DPS, you're welcome to do that. If you can't, it boils down to DPS.

Please..no..please don't start this again..

I know some people who ran into people who have the mentality that DPS is the way to go and I see a lot of people who think that some healer or tank jobs should be DPSing all of the time if the there is main tank and main healer. I'm not against tanks and healers DPSing when there isn't anything impotant happening that warrants extra tanking/healing. However I will post a thread to tell tanks to stop worrying about their own DPS numbers and worry about holding aggro since that is their role.

And yet I run dngs as my healer, and have been told not to dps or i simply can't, cause tanks pull everything in one shot. Kinda hard to dps, when tanks pull 5 groups of mobs, and melt like butter in the process. Lol

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Originally Posted by Underlord

And yet I run dngs as my healer, and have been told not to dps or i simply can't, cause tanks pull everything in one shot. Kinda hard to dps, when tanks pull 5 groups of mobs, and melt like butter in the process. Lol

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Thats exactly what tanks do since healers dont want to dps, since they just end up standing there doing nothing.

You sound like you want to dps though, but the tank probably already ran into too many no dps healers that they dont care. This is like the 100th anti dps threads in this forums past, so yeah

Communicating with your group will definitely help the group in dungeons, if people have issues with that then tell them that it's not worth running the dungeon with them and just leave.

In casual content (everything you pug int his game) is ok to not dps as a healer, but as soon you join a midcore/hardcore static or Fc, they will expect you to do your job at maximum

What is it with this role obsession?

The objective of every player in the party is the same: to kill the boss in the shortest possible time. Until SE introduces bosses that you can heal to death, that means optimising dps. To the extent a tank or healer's resources are not needed to keep the party alive, they are spent on damage. I know I shouldn't even be posting this, but these threads are such compelling cases of siwoti.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

In casual content (everything you pug int his game) is ok to not dps as a healer, but as soon you join a midcore/hardcore static or Fc, they will expect you to do your job at maximum

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but what if you wanted to have a little bit of and let some people in on the joke of your midcore/hardcore static like some youtubers like DrakGamestein?

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

In casual content (everything you pug int his game) is ok to not dps as a healer

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No it's not (as long as the party and run is otherwise standard and extensive healing isn't constantly required). Healers and tanks are expected to actively participate just like their other party members. And since healing alone doesn't keep you as active as your team mates, you're expected to contribute with DPS as well. Especially now that you don't even have to swap in to cleric stance for it. Similarly, tanks are expected to do more than spam Flash and 1-2-3 in tank stance over and over and over.

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Originally Posted by Fortune_Cookie

What is it with this role obsession?

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This x1000000000000. No one cares what your role is called or what colour icon you have, they care about what you can do to help your group, and if you're willing to do that or not.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

but what if you wanted to have a little bit of and let some people in on the joke of your midcore/hardcore static like some youtubers like DrakGamestein?

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thats the static's problem. any pug for savage content that takes itself seriously WILL expect people to play to their best. your arguments against players putting effort make as much sense as condoning people doing content withouy job crystals or something. "i can heal as conjurer!! i can keep aggro as marauder!! hurgh!!!"

Because this topic totally hasn't been argued ad nauseum and totally needed another thread about it.

Tanks heal. Healers dps. DPS tanks. Come on, people. Get with the program!

Why not? I mean, hey it's like the police should be the fire department, fire department should be construction, and construction should be the police!

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Originally Posted by Fortune_Cookie

What is it with this role obsession?

The objective of every player in the party is the same: to kill the boss in the shortest possible time. Until SE introduces bosses that you can heal to death, that means optimising dps. To the extent a tank or healer's resources are not needed to keep the party alive, they are spent on damage. I know I shouldn't even be posting this, but these threads are such compelling cases of siwoti.

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Yeah this is why I wish the trinity was a bit looser, but apparently they want the lines to be drawn much thicker in regards to trinity, and the commnity eats it all up. Any utility or skill given to a dps that doesnt damage is looked at as a fluff for flavoring, even if its quite capable tool for aiding a healer, or tank depending. Then its "tanks shouldnt deal no damage at all, just every attack should be flash because they tanks"

I dont quite understand why people trying to improve beyond just doing the bare minimum is so despised by some group that just wants mediocrity in their party members aptitude and skill

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Originally Posted by Taika

No it's not (as long as the party and run is otherwise standard and extensive healing isn't constantly required). Healers and tanks are expected to actively participate just like their other party members. And since healing alone doesn't keep you as active as your team mates, you're expected to contribute with DPS as well. Especially now that you don't even have to swap in to cleric stance for it. Similarly, tanks are expected to do more than spam Flash and 1-2-3 in tank stance over and over and over.


This x1000000000000. No one cares what your role is called or what colour icon you have, they care about what you can do to help your group, and if you're willing to do that or not.

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You're wrong, you can't retaliate a healer for not dpsing. And I will say more, if you do that you can be punished by a GM for harassment.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

You're wrong, you can't retaliate a healer for not dpsing. And I will say more, if you do that you can be punished by a GM for harassment.

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So many questions right there... I don't even know which question to ask...

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

You're wrong, you can't retaliate a healer for not dpsing. And I will say more, if you do that you can be punished by a GM for harassment.

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You can kick people for different playstyles, and this definitely falls under that. :)

But I won't automatically kick a healer who doesn't DPS. I will ask them nicely to participate with DPS when no one needs healing. Then if they refuse without any reason than "lol no that's not my job", I will initiate the kick (although even then I will probably first try to explain why it is their job and why it is so useful for the whole group). And I would do the same with a BRD who refuses to sing or refresh TP/MP because they're called DPS. :P

(Edit addition: If they say they really can't right at the moment because of being super nervous or having a massive headache and just trying to get through the instance or whatever, that's fine. What I can't stand is not trying to put some effort and intentionally making the rest of your party work much harder than you are.)

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Originally Posted by Jas710

Tanks heal. Healers dps. DPS tanks. Come on, people. Get with the program!

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what if i told you tanks actually have healing skills

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Originally Posted by Tingaling

To be fair, there's a lot of downtime as a healer so you can dps during those times

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yea.. I was healing er SCH in Lv61~65 dungeon.. I was surprised how much time I had to DPS.

Dpsing as a healer is the biggest reason why I find healers fun to play in this game.
I'd fall asleep without dpsing inbetween heals. Even in larger pulls.
It's rather ridicilous tho to say that it's not part of your job, because it sure is in this MMO.
It's quite clearly part of the design of the healer jobs.

If a healer I am running with doesn't want to dps I don't even comment on it, nor do I really care.
But don't give me the crap about how '' it's not my job ''. Healers in this game are designed to be dpsing too. If you want to ignore that aspect of the design then I am not going to give you a hard time about it, and if it's a problem for other groups that are trying to progress then they'll deal with that amongst themselves.
But don't insult my intelligence by claiming that it's not your job and '' I am a healer, I don't dps ''.
At least be honest about it.
If you're not dpsing as a healer then you're not playing it as intended by the developers, it's that simple.
I'll accept it, others won't.
I personally value honesty. If someone is honest with me then I am willing to let most things go, but if they start bs-ing me they invoke muh wrath and I'll explode their face.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

DO NOT EXPECT HEALERS AND TANKS TO DPS!!! That is not their role.

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Very little content requires full-time healing though. And any overheal is wasted mana in the end. So DPSing is not only to kill downtime (drives me nuts seeing a SCH fapping in a corner while the tank takes maybe 100 damage) but is more mana efficient than spamming heals.

Unless a fight is a brutal healer check, and especially with Cleric's rework, I expect healers to squeeze some DPS in. Removing stance dancing basically killed any excuse other than "not my role", which is flimsy at best.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

You're wrong, you can't retaliate a healer for not dpsing

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Yes you can.

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And I will say more, if you do that you can be punished by a GM for harassment.

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No you can't.

i just like how the dps argument disease has spread from only healers to tanks now. nobody has to deal damage anymore actually. in fact we dont even need to use the new skills! im pretty sure you can clear even savage content with just cure 2 and medica and with just enmity combos (wasnt there a drk that cleared a12s with just flash? we should all be like that guy)

and while we're at it, just remove all cross role skills from your dps jobs. mitigation? mp/tp recovery? as a dps i only have to do damage. not even GOOD damage. just autoattacks fam. spam armor crush. ice mages are good now

I'll take two Healers that can do at least 1k+ Damage vs two healers that decide they just want to heal, Because i know that 1k DAMAGE PER SECOND they deal will result in them healing less in the long run.
Wit that Logic though, sure I'll spam my Enmity Combo and neglect the fact that Maim adds +10% and storms eye adds 20% to my rotation which in the long run contributes to the raids Ability to survive and sustain tempo vs the boss.
Oh and it also makes me contribute less Enmity overall meaning in 4 rotations I'd lose an entire rotation of enmity generation OH NO!
How is that this is an argument brought up by the same user across multiple forums when they play the class that has the highest enmity generating last attack in the game, it's already bad enough DARK KNIGHT is basically this 1-2-3 oriented more so then any of job right now, DARK ARTS THAT Power SLASH and never power slash again.

DO NOT EXPECT RDMS AND MONKS TO ASSIST YOU!!! That is not their role. RDMs are the shining new toy that deals damage with a lot of style so that the boss doesn't decide to enrage and hit kill the band-aid that you are, and monks generally make sure to dance properly around the boss in order to hit their positionals and provides some group buffs to help with DPS. If like both the healers are dead and the groups is on like 10% or 5% HP expect the RDM to ress maybe 1 healer to heal the group up.

I pissed off a lot of STR accessory only tanks with my post on the tank role forums... and it is really toxic... no wonder tank balance sucks... and I'm a VIT accessory only tank..... :(

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

I pissed off a lot of STR accessory only tanks with my post on the tank role forums... and it is really toxic... no wonder tank balance sucks... and I'm a VIT accessory only tank..... :(

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you dont get rank or points on here for your obvious troll posts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JkX-R19-NI

stop using DRK in your SN when protesting damage for tanks or healers. you insult the jobs long history

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

I pissed off a lot of STR accessory only tanks with my post on the tank role forums... and it is really toxic... no wonder tank balance sucks... and I'm a VIT accessory only tank..... :(

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Hell, I am still using VIT accessories, and even I think your thread is out of line.

In any encounter, once that little "A" appears over you threat meter and that guage is at a good level, your time of generating enmity should be done until called upon again. If a tank buster or high multi hit attack isn't aimed your way, you are experiencing downtime.

Even enmity caps, and if it does, you should be DPSing, using whatever your kit allows. Heck, there shouldn't be a reason to even bother with your enmity combo besides the start of an encounter if there is a OT with Shirk around. If you can't seem to deal with tanks doing damage, well..Miner and Fisher seems like a job up your alley.

Seriously, these kind of threads needs to end.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

I pissed off a lot of STR accessory only tanks with my post on the tank role forums... and it is really toxic... no wonder tank balance sucks... and I'm a VIT accessory only tank..... :(

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dude nobody even mentioned STR tanks until now. you started the thread with some "tanks and healers should be bare minimum mediocre tools that only keep enmity and heal people" garbage

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

you dont get rank or points on here for your obvious troll posts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JkX-R19-NI

stop using DRK in your SN when protesting damage for tanks or healers. you insult the jobs long history

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What the hell is SN and I didn't know I got points or ranks for posts....

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Originally Posted by QooEr

dude nobody even mentioned STR tanks until now. you started the thread with some "tanks and healers should be bare minimum mediocre tools that only keep enmity and heal people" garbage

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Yeah I didn't think to also direct this to the STR tanks that may or may not lurk DPS forums... I made a mistake...

I look at it this way. A GOOD tank keeps aggro off everyone. A GOOD Healer keeps everyone alive. A GREAT Tank or Healer does these as well as helping the party take down the bosses faster.

That's the dynamic of MMOs that use the trinity. When tanks and healers are already capable of doing their jobs without issues, the only other way to contribute is to add to DPS.

It was the same way in The Secret World. Tanks basically got enough mitigation to survive the big hits and then focused on damage because any extra mitigation was just wasted. Healing ended up becoming limited to only leech Assault Rifle healers because it was the only healer capable of dealing respectable DPS while healing, so the other two "pure healers", while capable of healing better overall, were left out because their more potent healing abilities were wasted. But extra damage is always needed (unless you can kill bosses in one hit, which will never happen).

Honestly, I think one of the best ways to balance tanks and healers while still allowing them to feel different would be to allow them to increase damage on target in different ways. One could be a DPS tank/healer, adding more personal damage (Warrior/Scholar), one could be a support tank/healer (Paladin/White Mate) buffing parry damage, and one could be a debuff type tank/healer (Dark Knight/Astrologian) lowering enemies resistances and allowing more damage through.

But Healing and Tanking in this game would possibly be the easiest among all of the top mmos period without the added complexity of min-maxing your downtime...
Outside of maybe Healing a Tank who pulls until they hit a wall while using no cds in dps stance. Yeah, I can see only having time for dots there.

Take it from me OP. I was rather against the notion of healing/dps myself as I was used to that playstyle for years off FF MMOs. However, there could be certain points in dungeons where you have a DPS check, sometimes failing these results in a wipe. Progressing further into the game this becomes a realization that you won't be constantly healing, and what DPS you bring the table could be the make or break a DPS check sometimes. Since then, I have followed two rules.

1.) Primary job is to heal and keep people alive, this take precedence over anything else as death is bad mmkay.
2.) Secondary job is support DPS when you have the time to squeeze it in. If it is killing your MP grab Lucid Dreaming as soon as you can. (Role Action).

If you having a hard time swapping between mobs and party members, I would recommend building macros to ease this burden a bit.